[megaspaz]

if you have twisties, after some time, you’ll be able to keep up. some of them 600 super sport riders have no idea how to turn.

on the open highway where everything’s straight, you’ll have no chance of keeping up if they decide to lose you…

Basically, get the basics down, become a better rider and on the fun roads, you’ll keep up just fine with them super crotch rockets.

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If there’s anything more important than my ego
around, I want it caught and shot now…

[megaspaz]

i think there’s a disconnect on what people mean about highway speeds. my buddy geoff had a ninja250 for months and his perspective is from riding the highways of the bay area california which is basically a track meet. it will cruise 80 mph all day long. the ninja actually likes being in the upper/high rpms. the problem he noted is when he needed to pass a slower vehicle. it takes time for the ninja250 to get to a usable passing speed. ie. if you’re in the slow lane cruising at 70 and there’s a car in front of you going slow, it takes the ninja time to wind into the left lane’s flow of traffic speed to change lanes and pass the slower car on the right. Also, he noted on his trip to spokane, that going up past 6000 feet in elevation, the ninja strains – he could only go 45 mph fully rev’ed in highest gear. It all really depends on where you wanna ride.

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If there’s anything more important than my ego
around, I want it caught and shot now…

[megaspaz]

so far with multiple vehicles (2 bikes, 1 car), renter’s insurance, and msf brc, I’m paying 1000 bucks total for both bikes with 200K liability/uninsured and medical on both bikes. so think of it like 500 bucks for each bike a year and a 500 bucks deductable. Looking to see next pay period what ama membership will help with the insurance price. I suppose i could find out right now though. Depending on how much extra ama membership saves, i might add comprehensive to the mix.

for full coverage for each bike with my experience and all the discounts above:

SV650S – 2000 bucks a year
Duc – 3000 bucks a year

I didn’t go with full coverage. way too expensive…

—
If there’s anything more important than my ego
around, I want it caught and shot now…

[megaspaz]

eh? you looking to get another ninja 250? i thought you were looking to upgrade???

—
If there’s anything more important than my ego
around, I want it caught and shot now…

[megaspaz]

There’s lots of things you can do to change your line. although, imo, changing your line in any point of the turn still gets sketchy. That’s why S.E.E., slow-in-fast-out, hanging off, *late apexing, and looking as far into the turn as possible are important on the twisties. You want to get all your inputs settled before the turn. The MSF tells you about the easiest avoidance technique in the turn, which quite frankly isn’t all that appealing on right handed turns, which is to stand the bike up and try to brake before the obstacle. Trying to swerve in the middle of the turn would be a crap shoot… you’re more likely to run across the DY or off the road. And on a sharp right hander, standing the bike up to try to emergency brake will more likely lead you over the DY. If there isn’t obstacle avoidance involved and you’re running wide of the turn, there’s a few techniques you can do, but you have to be smooth as possible while in the turn. All these have bad consequences if not done close to perfect. I’ve actually done all of these at one time or another. Haven’t binned it yet.

** 1. roll on more throttle and lean more. I see this suggested all the time as a first resort. not sure what the second or third resort would be if this doesn’t work.
*** 2. trail brake with the front brakes to scrub speed and slowly and smoothly as possible release the front brakes while rolling on the throttle at the same time.
**** 3. Trail brake with the rear brakes. Advantage of trail braking with the rear brake is you get a subtler #4 as well as a subtler braking response which could be all you need. Disadvantage is that the bike might want to stand up as well as decreasing contact patch of the rear wheel or locking the rear brake which can lead to a high side.
**** 4. engage the rear brake with the throttle rolled on. this causes the front wheel to rotate faster than the rear wheel causing the bike to slide in the rear to a new line and exit point. release the rear brake when you’ve got the line you want.

IMO, anything done while in any process of a turn is sketchy at best. I personally think of any of the choices as last resorts since you’re in split second reaction mode and not hitting any of them pretty much means you’ve run out of any time to correct your failed corrections. All of these oh shit recoveries also require that the rider not target fixate. High sides and low sides are a very real possibility with any of the above. The one thing about super sport bikes are that they are now lighter than before and are easier to throw around at speed. So even if you do the unrecommended standing the bike up to change your line (not stopping) you can do it and flick the bike into the lean of your new line (most likely to be done in an early apex). The best advice I can give you is to go slow on new roads you’ve never ridden or just take it slow in general and get your speed fix on the track.

FYI, if you find yourself running into dirt/gravel on the side of the road, stand the bike up and use your rear brakes only. I’ve had a few experienced dirt riders tell me that.

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* late apexing in general needs you to have control of your bike. You need to flick the bike quicker into the lean. the advantages you get are 1) you can see further into the turn and 2) less time spent in the lean. Advantage 2 depends on your control of the bike because you need to initiate (flick) the bike into the lean quicker. Also, late apexing into blind right turns isn’t all that great because you’re spending more time closer to the DY which puts you in danger from other vehicles in the other direction who can’t stay between their lines. The only other alternatives being take the inside line which sucks because you can’t see further into the turn and you can’t determine vanishing points as easily.

** this especially works if you hang off properly because when you hang off correctly, your bike is more upright and you have extra lean angle to play with.

*** The best i’ve figured out with this is when you’re engaging the front brake to roll off the throttle while engaging the front brakes as you don’t want to chop the throttle at all in a turn. When you’re at the speed you think you can control, continue with the brake releasing/throttle rolling described above. combine with #1 and hanging off if needed.

**** The least recommended solutions due to misuse of the rear brakes by riders in general.

—
If there’s anything more important than my ego
around, I want it caught and shot now…

[megaspaz]

so if i’m rude, will you give me a hug?

Welcome! damn, i just can’t be rude… can i have a hug anyway?

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If there’s anything more important than my ego
around, I want it caught and shot now…

[megaspaz]

hrm… i didn’t get that at all… i’ve seen plenty worse at other places… it’s only the interwebz after all…

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If there’s anything more important than my ego
around, I want it caught and shot now…

[megaspaz]

let’s be fair here. you original post doesn’t leave much to be interpreted except for you being upset at spending 245 bucks. It’s steep, i agree and after riding for a while, i realized that you only get basic workings of a motorcycle and dealing with traffic without going into traffic. How much you learn after the BRC is up to how you ride and the conditions you ride in. If you’re just commuting to work, you probably know everything about traffic tendencies in your riding commute and the stuff the brc teaches probably seems like a waste of time since you might not see a lot of the stuff like blind turns, decreasing radius turns, increasing radius turns, etc. Basically, we all filter out what is necessary to us at the time and make judgements based on what we deem is immediately necessary for us.

And your title suggests you expected to get flamed (not saying rab flamed you, it was rather tame, not like you’d see on barf), but then take exception to what was posted. Rab’s been riding for a while and has always given solid advice and never in a dick way… and he did on his know it all comment which always denotes kidding. Either way, this thread has certainly gone way off topic and way off civility. I’d suggest take it down a notch. We get the point you don’t think the BRC is worth 250 bucks. After hearing about some states providing this course for free, 250 bucks looks like a gip to me too. haha… I look at the fee as getting discounts at gear shops, insurance discounts, and avoiding the dmv rider test which is harder than the brc. There’s posts everywhere about riders with 20 years riding experience asking to borrow a scooter or a beginner, low cc bike for taking the test. There’s also posts everywhere about said type of riders failing the dmv rider test. Where you get to do the rider test of the brc at a decent mph, the dmv wants you to do everything around 5mph or slower.

either way, there’s other things to do than get all worked up on the internet… like riding some tasty twisties…

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If there’s anything more important than my ego
around, I want it caught and shot now…

[megaspaz]

hi anonymous! how about registering an account? we get so many anonymouses here…

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If there’s anything more important than my ego
around, I want it caught and shot now…

[megaspaz]

what’s the make and model of the helmet? can’t tell you anything about price otherwise… basically, unless the helmet he’s selling you is in an unopened manufacturer’s box, I wouldn’t trust it. I wouldn’t care if it looks pristine either, since the only way to tell if the integrity hasn’t been compromised is to send the helmet back to the manufacturer and have them do their x-rays on it.

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If there’s anything more important than my ego
around, I want it caught and shot now…

[megaspaz]

Good for you! yer special.

—
If there’s anything more important than my ego
around, I want it caught and shot now…

[megaspaz]

There’s 2 msf courses. the brc and the erc. If you took the brc as an experienced rider, then yeh, you’ll be bored out of your wits. The brc was designed for complete noobs and noobs who’ve been practicing with there permits. Experienced riders (1+ years) should do the erc course. more challenging. I’ve seen permit noobs fail the msf brc course over here. 2 in my class. so for you it may be boring, but for others, still a challenge.

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If there’s anything more important than my ego
around, I want it caught and shot now…

[megaspaz]

Good on you! Congrats on passing the msf… now go PRACTICE!

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If there’s anything more important than my ego
around, I want it caught and shot now…

[megaspaz]

not necessarily. not if the gravel was just a patch of it and he was sliding on what would be pavement. if he was in the gravel or dirt on the side of the road, stand he bike up and pump the rear brakes. I’ve hit gravel patches on calaveras and slid the rear and rolling on the throttle worked wonders. ask jiriki. he was behind me.

edit: can there be some clarification? did you hit a gravel patch on the road or were you in the gravel on the side of the road?
—
If there’s anything more important than my ego
around, I want it caught and shot now…

[megaspaz]

what’s the helmet? tell him to keep his helmet and knock the price of the helmet off the bike instead. oh and Hi!

—
If there’s anything more important than my ego
around, I want it caught and shot now…

[Author]

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