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So I took the ERC on Sunday. The class was much smaller than my BRC, although I believe that the class limit size is the same, most BRC’s are sold out weeks in advance and there seems to be less of a demand for the ERC. Everyone rode their own bike, and the bikes ranged from a Boulevard S40(which was ridden two up in the class) to one of the BMW 1200’s. Everyone taking the class was a competent rider, no problems with basic control, but none of us were perfect, in general I’d say that our skills were pretty well matched. I’d say the average time street riding was in the neighborhood of 3 years. However, I have less than a year and certainly fit right in skill wise. If you think you could complete the BRC on your own bike without constant instruction; you are being watched and critiqued-instructed when necessary, rather than being instructed on the basics-then you would be fine in an ERC.

As opposed to the BRC the coaching allows for more of your own personal comfort rather than sticking to absolute rules. No hard and fast rules about covering the brake or clutch or even hand position on the throttle. Then again if someone in the class were obviously a danger to themselves or anyone else our coach might have been more adamant about small details. The attitude seemed to be that we were all capable riders and nobody is going to ride exactly the same. Stick to the basic tenets, head up, look where you want to go, squeeze don’t grab, etc.

As for the class itself, there is no classroom time and the fact that everyone can ride makes things move along very quickly. Most of the exercises were pretty similar to the BRC, “The Box” and I still hate that !@#$% thing, I believe is identical. So was the exercise where you straighten up the bike in the middle of a turn and quickly stop. I’m pretty sure that the cone weaves were offset more than they were in the BRC and the course that was laid out at the end certainly seemed more challenging than anything I remember from the BRC, a straightaway into a decreasing radius turn, through a weave, into another decreasing radius turn, back to the straightaway. However there was not any exercise that would be intimidating for anyone who had some time in the saddle.

I enjoyed the class and certainly would recommend it to anyone who wanted to take a step beyond the BRC.

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The school that I’ve used in NY and the classes given in VT have both an intermediate class, IRC, and an experienced class, ERC. From what I remember once you’ve passed the BRC they feel you’re ready for the IRC; to take the ERC you should have a few thousand miles under your belt. For me, like I had mentioned, the selling point of the ERC is that you use your own bike. I believe I read somewhere that the IRC is new for this year, and in fact doesn’t appear to be on the MSF’s website. It is on the site of the NY school.
http://www.ridemss.com/?page=22&ctype=25

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I’ll be taking the ERC on May 31st, I’ll report back shortly thereafter. I believe they suggest that you have approximately 3000 miles before you take the class, though it is simply a suggestion not a rule. With my scooter and motorcycle experience I am just above 3K, however, I probably would have taken the intermediate class, rather than the ERC, if I could have taken it on my own bike.

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Geeesh, nice welcome, I always thought of this as one of the friendlier boards on the web. Since when is it something to be mocked that a guy is letting people know he provides a service they might be interested in? Has anyone heard that times are tough out there right now, maybe-and I stress I have no clue who ridewithease is-he just got laid off and this is his way of trying to get himself through. If there is anyone who might take issue with the initial post it is Ben and we haven’t heard from him. If he thinks ridewithease should pay for an ad or buy a few T Shirts then he has every right to make him do so or remove the post. As for why 2 of the 3 responses take offense that someone would want to let people know he might have a service they might be interested in, I think you’re way off base.

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I moved up from a 150cc scooter to a motorcycle last summer. I skipped a few steps and bought a Ducati GT1000. It is not a jump that I’d endorse for everyone, though it has worked out for me so far. If you are going to keep your Vespa, much as I’ve kept my Buddy-it is incredibly practical for errands in town, I’d strongly recommend moving up in size. Just too much overlap in what a 250cc scooter and 250cc motorcycle are capable of. People seem to love the SV650 and that would be a nice step up from the Vespa. However if you really want a Thruxton, Bonnie or Sportster I think you owe it to yourself to consider them, it’s not as if you’re lusting after a ‘Busa(the official BBM poster child of bad motorcycle choices).

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Thanks for the feedback. I have about 1000 miles on my 150cc scooter and 1200 miles on my Ducati. I probably won’t be able to ride until May 1st but will try to get in a good number of miles and take an ERC that is scheduled for May 31st.

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There’s a somewhat narrow parking lot a few hundred yards from here. Come spring I will master those damn things on a 1000cc even though they embarrassed me on a 250.

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I took my class last November and looked at it both as a chance to learn and also as my last chance to ride for at least the next 5 months. In spite of the very chilly NYC weather I enjoyed it thoroughly and learned quite a bit. I had absolutely no stress, but that was probably due to the fact that I had logged a substantial number of miles during the summer and fall and the fact that I already had my Vermont endorsement, so failing, though it might have been a blow to my ego wouldn’t have meant anything to me, hence absolutely no pressure.

Of the 12 people in our class 10 passed. Taking a look at a few people on day one I would have figured that there was no way a few would even come close but most of them really pulled it together. One of the guys, a character I’ll never forget, and the only one to drop a bike in class, I guess pulled a Gentleman’s C; to tell you the truth I’m pretty happy he won’t be riding on the US mainland. I can’t imagine that the rider/coaches, one of whom was a pretty imposing former NYC cop, would have graded him easier, I guess he just managed to show enough competence to pass(or maybe they just couldn’t bear the thought of him coming back to take the course again?).

I’m pretty sure that I had more miles under my belt than anyone else in the class and felt like I was the strongest rider. However when it came time for the test the only person to not have any points deducted had never been on a motorcycle before the class. As for me, I aced everything except, to echo EON “Effin Figure 8’s”

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Hmm, in Vermont, where I live, and NY, where I took the BRC, a permit is necessary to even enroll in the class. I had thought that was nationwide but I guess not. At the place where I took the course they supplied helmets if you didn’t have, but you needed to wear a bandana for sanitary purposes. If you didn’t bring your own bandana they sold them for $5.

I realize that the BRC is designed for anyone, even if you’ve never been on a bike. However if you have access to a bike, a parking lot. and an experienced friend I think a little time in the saddle would be helpful for the class. Any bad habits that you might pick up in a few hours of practice will be quickly corrected in the class and I just feel that getting somewhat familiar with the basic controls before the class can be a big help. If you don’t have access to all of those just take the course, in fact the one person in our class who scored 100 on the test had never been on a motorcycle before.

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“I’m signing up for the MSF course here in Fort Lauderdale soon, but my goal is to purchase the bike first to get a feel for her on the side roads, and then hit the course with some basic muscle memory. Is there such a thing as a temporary endorsement on your license for learning purposes btw?”

The one prerequisite of the BRC is a motorcycle learners permit. If you haven’t already, pick up and read the Florida rider’s manual. Once you pass the written test you’ll be eligible for the BRC and you’ll be able to putter around on some side roads if you want.

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I was also concerned about getting confused as far as the different controls on the scoot and motorcycle. I can tell you that it was not an issue and I assume that it won’t be. That being said, I haven’t been confronted with any sort of emergency/panic scenario; however, I don’t think that would change things as it’s not something I seem to have to think about. Maybe it’s because I ride both of them pretty regularly rather than riding one for a month and then the other. I know that when I got my current car, an automatic, after driving standards for the previous 8 years I kept trying to find the clutch with my left foot, but for some reason on the bikes it just seems to come naturally.

I am not trying to convince you to buy a scooter and motorcycle like I did, simply letting you know that that turned out to be an non issue for me. I went with the scooter first and think that was a good thing for me personally as it gave me a basic skill set and confidence when moving up. It does sound that at some point you’d like to have both and the one thing I would recommend is to make sure there is enough difference between your two rides. I think if you ended up with a Kymco 250 and a Ninja 250 the capabilities are similar enough that you’d end up choosing one that you preferred and neglect the other one. In my case, 150cc and 1000cc, the bikes are vastly different tools for vastly different purposes.

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I started on a scooter(Buddy International 150) and then bought a motorcycle soon after(Ducati GT1000). I still have both, and have no plans to give up either one. As others have mentioned it is really a function of what you’re going to use it for.

The scooter was literally twist and go. Very very easy to get a feel for. My situation with the motorcycle is a little different than others on this forum in that I started with a large bike. No incidents and learned to ride relatively competently in a few months but it definitely took dedication, patience, maturity and some self confidence acquired by a few months on the scooter. My feeling is that even starting on a 250 or similar, there is still more to learn than on a scooter, probably even a maxi scoot.

One thing in the above posts that I would have to disagree with is Sangria7 when he wrote “Driving standard cars and riding a motorcycle has no correlation to learning how to ride.” I think that being comfortable with a manual transmission car is invaluable experience. Not that shifting can’t be learned without it, but just the idea that the sequence of gears, downshifting, etc, are not new concepts, gives you one less thing to think about even if the controls are altogether different. I am quite certain that it helped me immensely and in my MSF class the never evers who had experience with a clutch seemed much more comfortable than those who were only familiar with P, D, N & R.

I live in a small town, about 2 miles from “downtown” and I constantly find myself making that run into town. For those trips the scooter is incredibly practical and fun, also keep in mind this sub $2 gas won’t be here for long. As for the motorcycle, at least in my particular situation, it isn’t nearly as practical, most of my longer trips will require the storage space of our SUV, I bought it mostly for fun. One thing I can tell you is that as I sit here in sub zero temperatures picturing my first ride of the spring, that little picture in my mind is not of me on the scooter. In short, for me scooter:fun and practical and I’m missing it. Motorcycle:an almost instinctual need to get back on that machine the moment the weather permits.

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Here’s a link to a blog that seems to know what it’s talking about.
http://twistingasphalt.com/index.php/2008/12/26/twist-update-air-schedule-change/

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Just as an FYI, those air dates are no longer valid. Seems as if they’re delaying in order to do a little more promotion.

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Skivvies,I pretty much agree with everything you’ve written. At this point in time I believe that the Ducati was the proper choice for me. Not necessarily for you, or you or you, but for me. Now I’m still at the stage where I’m a beginner, my skill levels well below the capability of the bike, so who knows, next year something may come up to change my opinion. However, right now, after a few months of pretty much trouble free learning, I am absolutely thrilled with my choice for my particular situation.

Now after taking the BRC and riding a 250 I can see how they would be easier to learn on. However I feel, and my instructors felt similarly, that my learning was in no way stunted by being on a larger bike, and that was because of the approach that I took. I realize it is sacrilege to even ponder the following on this site, but is it possible that I have more diverse, and dare I say better, experience than someone who had put about 1500 miles on a 250? I’m not saying this is so, but I will say as a fact that when I needed to get on a smaller bike for the BRC I in no way felt intimidated. The first time someone steps from a smaller bike to a larger one there will probably be at least some intimidation involved simply due to the size, sound, etc. I got that out of the way months ago.

I realize that in order to keep ourselves safe a lot of rational decisions should go into our choice of bike and how we choose to ride. However part of what makes motorcycles special is an emotional draw that most of us feel, or more precisely, “get.” I’ll admit my choice of ride was absolutely influenced more by emotion that rationale; hell once I saw one I had sweaty palms and couldn’t sleep until I owned one. However once that was done I did abide by the spirit of this site in that I’ve taken a conservative, rational, approach to riding. I think that is probably preferable to someone heeding the advice of many, purchasing a Ninja 250, but then riding it like an idiot. As I said previously in this post, and have written in numerous others, given the chance to go back a few months I wouldn’t change a thing.

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