[ranette]

Very true, but that is what I was asking people for, and I do value, and thought about, every opinion that I got. Given the same situation I’m pretty sure I would have proceeded the same way with the addition of getting on the horn immediately, that’s a no brainer that I missed. So much of my emergency reaction skills are based on what I learned in both of my MSF classes, if one of the MSF drills had included a horn honk I think it would have been second nature. Wonder why that’s not a part of any MSF drill. Anybody have any thoughts on that? Captain?

As for whether speeding up was more dangerous, only if there had been another unexpected obstacle after the turn. I was close enough to the turn that I knew if I accelerated there was no way I wasn’t going to cross that intersection before they got there. Believe me, I may be referring to them as little idiots, but in those moments I was much more concerned with their safety than I was with mine. You have to figure that if I had collided with them they would have come out of it a lot worse than I would have.

[ranette]

I’d echo one of the things that Crash said. Find a local rider discussion board and post what you posted here. My guess is that you’ll find good suggestions on suitable practice areas and it wouldn’t surprise me if you found someone willing to get out there with you and help you along.

Hate to bring gender into it, but it does play a role. Motorcycle discussion boards, for the most part, are dominated by men. When a woman joins the discussion her posts get more attention. Obviously, this can be a good thing or a bad thing, I guess depending upon how you take veiled, or maybe not so veiled, sexual references. Yes, discussion boards can be the equivalent of a 7th grade class, but my guess is you’ll find one of those 7th grade boys, or girls, will act like an adult and help you out.

Don’t mean to hijack your welcome thread but thought people might get a kick out of this link of a young woman introducing herself on a New England board, thread got to 1300 responses, more than a few of which were the op’s, my guess is she kind of liked the attention. http://www.nestreetriders.com/forum/general-bike-related/46932-where-the-female-sportbike-riders-new-england.html

[ranette]

Congrats on the bike, I think it is one of the sickest(in the good way) sportsbikes on the market. Any time you have something that really makes a visual impact you’ll have some who love it and some who hate it, put me down in the love it column. More importantly I think I can speak for everyone on this board and say we all look forward to the day you can actually plant your butt on your own bike.

I’m sure you know there are two things you’ll be hearing as far as safety is concerned. I assume you know of the startling number of incidents of vets returning home from the most dangerous places in the world only to meet their ends on a sportbike. It certainly makes sense that after spending time in a war zone that your sense of danger might might be somewhat skewed. What’s 146hp after taking sniper fire? Never forget that riding a motorcycle, any motorcycle, is a dangerous thing to do, however, with the proper skills and a mature attitude it becomes less so. One thing that I think we all agree on is that the most important thing is to know your ability-be brutally honest with yourself-and not ride beyond it; as the sergeant always said on Hill Street Blues, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2QApwtE8zQ

The other thing you’ll hear about is the power of the bike that you’ve purchased. Now I’d be quite the hypocrite to get on you about that, as my first motorcycle was a new Ducati. At the time I came on this board Elwood told me that he had started on a somewhat larger bike, a Sportster 883, but that my Duc at 92hp was a whole other level, well 146 hp is another few jumps up from mine. That thing is a beast. Certainly getting a Blast or something a little smaller to practice on wouldn’t be a bad idea. Even if you do get something to start on, my guess is once you start to develop some rudimentary skills the new bike will be calling you and you’ll probably get on it before your skills warrant it. Again, I’d be a hypocrite to criticize you for it because I could probably be accused of doing the same, certainly for my first month or two on the Ducati. However, in my case, at least to this point, it’s worked out well, and with a mature approach to learning there’s no reason it shouldn’t work out for you as well. You need to ride that thin line between confidence and cockiness. You can’t be afraid of your bike, but on the other hand it’s dangerous to think that your skills are any better than they actually are. After about 5000 miles I think I’d describe my riding style as conservative, but that’s a step up from when I started out where my style could best be described as great grandmotherly, but it has kept me safe and every day I ride I learn a little bit more.

Be safe, regardless of which end of the world you are on.

[ranette]

I live 6 miles down the road from Smuggler’s Notch so that tour would have passed right by me. Saw an XR1200 on the road for the first time a few days ago. It did look nice, I would have gone up to the guy and asked him about it, but my wife was with me and I didn’t want to motorcycle geek her out.

They started to release a few of the XR1200’s right about the time I was shopping for my Ducati. Along with the fact that I couldn’t have gotten one anywhere near the price of my bike, which was new but was a leftover ’07, I was put off by the extra 150 lbs that the Harley weighs. But yeah, if there were a Harley that I could see myself on that would be it.

As many know I kind of went against conventional wisdom and bought one of my dream bikes as my first bike. As for my current fantasy, it’s not available in North America. I posted the link in another thread, but I never get tired of looking at this bike. It’s a Moto Guzzi Griso 8V Special edition

[ranette]

I wear Draggin Jeans. Simply heavy denim reinforced with Kevlar in the knees and butt. Not the best looking jeans in the world, but not the worst. They will protect you from road rash, but are not armored. I ordered them with the optional knee protection but there’s no pocket to install the armor. Instead they give you a few flimsy pieces of velcro that’s supposed to secure the armor. I wear the jeans every time I ride but the armor is still sitting in the box it came in. Should have sent the pads back, but I never did. I’m thinking of getting a set of Bohn armor http://www.amazon.com/Bohn-Bodyguard-Adventure-Pants-Tailbone/dp/B001T4SK2Q/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=automotive&qid=1245342125&sr=8-1 so I’ll have the protection of both kevlar and full armor yet still be wearing jeans.

[ranette]

My wife and I quit our typical urban jobs, mine in computer sales and consulting, hers as an attorney, to clean toilets and flip omelets. We moved to Vermont and purchased a country inn.

[ranette]

Of course budget comes into play for just about all of us. That’s why I haven’t upgraded my pipes to make her sound as pretty as she looks. I guess in my original post I should have said to take cost out of the equation.

If I were to look at Munch’s list of 4, which I would whittle down to 3, my priorities would be:

1)Looks
2)Reliability
3)Usefullness

Along with all of the other reasons I shouldn’t have chosen the bike I did, the nearest Ducati dealer is a 3 1/2 hour drive from me. When it comes to motorcycles my practical side just seems to be a few furlongs behind my emotional side. Reliability hasn’t been Ducati’s strong point, though in the last 5 years they’ve addressed some of those issues. That being said my particular model has two well known issues that I learned about after I made my purchase and both have cropped up on my bike necessitating two long trips. Would knowing about those issues have swayed me from buying the Ducati? Absolutely not. A positive aspect of having your dealer so far away is that a trip there is great excuse to ride for an entire day.(How’s that for rationalizing an emotional purchase). For me I guess it comes down to this, for my particular situation, my car is useful and my scooter is useful, but my motorcycle is all about fun, and like I mentioned previously, she still makes my heart go pitter patter.

[ranette]

We don’t have any toll booths in Vermont so I don’t have an EasyPass but I’ve taken a few trips in the past few weeks and the toll booths are something you definitely have to think about. The first one I ever went through I knew was only $1, Route 93 in New Hampshire, so I took a dollar bill and tucked it into my left glove, worked really well. A few weeks later I found myself on the NY Thruway, where you need to grab the ticket. When I got to my destination it must have taken me 2 minutes to put the bike into neutral, take off my gloves, give the ticket to the attendant, get to my wallet, pull out the cash, stuff the change back…somewhere, put on my gloves, put the bike into gear and be on my way. There was one car behind me who didn’t seem bothered by the delay, can’t say I would have been so patient before I rode.

[ranette]

Ok I promised not to reappear in this thread, breaking the promise, but this will be not in the least contentious.

The kooky thing about your reference to where I must live was pretty eerie, actually I grew up in a town, literally next to Pleasantville. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleasantville,_NY For many years my family owned a business in Pleasantville. So kudos to you Elias for somehow knowing that. However if you click on the Wikipedia link you see that Pleasantville is located in the suburbs of New York and most of my dealings both on the sales and consumer end were in New York City, a place that I called home for 16 years, my guess is that is not what you meant by Pleasantville. All I’m saying is that there are all types in all places, some of the most honest, hardworking people you’ll ever find live in big cities and trust me I’ve met plenty of unscrupulous people since I’ve moved to the hills. One thing I can say with some amount of certainty is that there are both good and bad places to do business with in both Phoenix and New York. You might not think there are any, but they’re there.

I think what Elwood was getting at was that if you approach people in a professional and honest manner you have a better chance of being treated that way back and it will lead to a more productive relationship down the road for both customer and merchant. That’s the only way you’ll end up dealing with the Elwoods of the world because a salesperson who sees himself as a professional, who follows up and helps his customers long after the sale, the kind you find in Pleasantville, will pass up a sale if he feels he is being lied to. You have every right to get the best price that you’re able to, I would never say that you don’t, I just feel there are other paths to that destination. If I told you what I paid for my brand new Ducati GT1000 you probably wouldn’t believe me, the deal was that good, I simply found a bike that they wanted to move and stuck to my price. My car was also a great deal. The scooter, well I bought the scooter during last summer’s scooter boom, there were none to be found and MSRP was considered a good deal, but I bonded with the owner and he actually drove the bike from NY to Vermont and dropped it in my parking lot. Sure, coincidentally his parents lived 45 minutes from here but he still drove 600 miles on a weekend he wasn’t planning to(his mom called to thank me) and trust me that bike wouldn’t have sat in his shop for more than a week if I hadn’t bought it. That dealership is in Brooklyn well known home of patsies and pushovers.

As you said I don’t think this thread can go anywhere else, simply two divergent points of view. I kind of wish I didn’t live 3000 miles from Phoenix. Might be fun if we could both set out in the morning with that wad of cash(your cash of course cuz it’s going to be your bike), and see who has a better experience, and yes, who gets the better deal.

Pleasantivlle, still can’t figure out how the !@#$% he knew that?

[ranette]

“Most salesmen that I have dealt with try to sell for the highest price possible”

Actually ALL salesmen want to sell for the highest possible price(within the limits of the law and their management). There is nothing wrong with that, it’s their job, it’s how they make their living. They make a commission, they put food in their kid’s mouths, they buy nice things for their spouses, based on the amount of profit they bring in. You can look at it as your job, keeping as much of your money as possible, to pay the lowest possible price; any salesperson worth his seat knows that and respects that. For some reason you do not have a problem with the consumer trying to do the best for him or herself while you seem to really resent a salesperson for trying to do the same for himself.

Actually, Elwood’s says it far better than I am able to, I’d say it pretty much says it all, great post. You know what? I’d buy a used car, or a new washer/dryer, from that man.

I’ll say that I’m finished with this thread for the simple reason that you seem to be a good guy but our views on this are at polar opposites and if I were to honestly give my opinion on your most recent post I’d end up saying things I regret. Feel free to comment on this post, but next time you see me it will be in another thread.

Randy

[ranette]

Elias I agree with your statement in a previous post, this should probably end as it will probably denigrate into a flame war, something that has been refreshingly absent from this site. However, I am still trying to get at what you are saying, in your original post you state,

“Hey I have a question for you. I have a big wad of cash (lying)”

and above you write,

“I don’t like wasting people’s time anymore than the person who’s time I would be wasting.”

I’ve been in sales related professions for the better part of the past 25 years-I currently own a country inn with my wife and part of our job is to sell rooms-and I can honestly say that any time I have lied to a prospective customer I have wasted their time and any time a potential customer has lied to me they have wasted my time. You certainly have a right to lie to a salesperson, I’ll get off my high horse in that regard, but then to state that you don’t like to waste their time simply makes no sense at all.

As a final comment I’d say that SafetyFirst probably made the most sense of anybody in this thread when he spoke about engaging the salesperson with your common interests, asking intelligent questions to let him or her know that you know what you’re talking about. Any customer who knows about linear throttle response also knows that MSRP ain’t the best he can do, a good salesperson should recognize this and it should eliminate some of the BS.

[ranette]

Of course a salesman needs to make the call as to whether or not you’re lying. If you walk into a place and say I’m ready to plunk down $8500 for x, y or z bike and the salesperson says you have a deal and then you tell him sorry I was lying, the salesperson just wasted his time, and when it comes to making a living we are all on the clock. If you are dealing with someone who is lying to you, you could be neglecting someone who is looking to work with you in good faith. So the guy could have given him some number, even you said probably wouldn’t be his best number. These days you can get a decent idea of what any bike should cost by doing a little research. Like it or not in any transaction where price is negotiable-from a motorcycle sale to a leveraged buyout-the final price can only be hammered out when both parties are ready to make a deal. If you need a salesperson to give you a number you can usually get a rough number by telling him or her that you’re not ready to buy but just need a basic price range, most will give it to you; first rule of sales, make a friend. Actually if anyone here has seen Glengary Glen Ross, a great, great film, they know the real first rule of sales is ABC, Always Be Closing. However if you know that there is no way for a sale to close at that moment, you make a friend, that’s the best way to get their business when they are ready.

As for prejudging a potential customer by what he or she is wearing or the vehicle they drive up in, it is wrong and usually counterproductive for just the reasons you mention. However, accurately trying to assess whether that potential customer is being truthful with you is an important aspect of being a successful businessperson.

Absolutely agree with you about good sales people taking care of the person and not forgetting about the customer after the check has cleared. For example, a good sales person will act as his customer’s advocate in dealing with the service department or even a manufacturer when it comes to things like borderline calls on whether something is or is not covered by warranty. Most who have been around for a while realize it’s much easier to make a living from returning customers and referrals, and will go the extra mile to make sure you come back. Obviously this is where the customer’s ability to assess comes into play, if you feel you are being viewed as nothing but a wallet with legs just move on. The few $$$ you might save, and I stress the word MIGHT, will quickly be forgotten as your bike sits in the shop and your rep asks you “what’s your name again? what did you buy? when do you think you’ll be looking for a new bike? Sorry, can’t help you, you’ll have to speak with service.”

To shift gears from the above paragraphs, for some reason whenever I walk into a car dealership I am immediately approached by a salesperson. The bike shops I’ve been in seem to give me more space, though when I’ve asked for help I’ve always gotten it. I realize this isn’t a cultural difference between motorcycle and automobile dealerships just a peculiarity I’ve noticed in my limited visits to motorcycle dealerships.

[ranette]

I don’t think anyone on this board would criticize you for using a specific negotiating technique. I think what some of us have commented on was the fact that you weren’t negotiating, you were lying about being ready to buy, hence, wasting a man’s time. In my mind this is wrong, and I also believe-though many would disagree with me-that it is counterproductive as far as eventually negotiating in good faith. We all bargain on high ticket items and there’s nothing wrong with trying to get the best price you’re able to, or at least a price that you’re comfortable with.

As for that magic word. I didn’t use it in my initial post but it did cross my mind when I was composing it. I can unequivocally state that I am not an asshole but on occasion do act like one. I’ve read your other posts, you seem like a normal guy with interests(or should I say obsessions) similar to most of us on this board, certainly not an asshole. However, when I read Clay’s post I have to admit I agreed with the way he characterized your actions on that particular afternoon.

[ranette]

So, basically you walked into the place, lied right to the man’s face, and you’re pissed that he didn’t tell you he’d sell you a bike at cost.

Why not simply walk into the dealership and tell him the truth, you’re just looking at the moment but will be purchasing a 650R at some point in the future. My guess is the salesperson’s reaction would be to initially say something along the lines of if he could arrange it so you could walk out today with the bike would that be of any interest to you? If you bluntly tell him no, granted you might have to tell him two or three times, you’re just looking, he’ll most likely give you his card, tell you to look around the showroom and please call him when you’re ready to purchase. It’s the only logical move when you’re presented with an objection you cannot overcome. I’ve never sold cars or bikes, but I was once in high ticket retail sales, and yes, the only way to make a living is to move product, preferably at as high a margin as possible. That doesn’t just go for cars and bikes but for all types of sales. Sometimes it’s not the easiest way to make a living, and what really pisses you off isn’t tire kickers, today’s tire kicker can be tomorrow’s sale, what really pisses you off is people lying to you, essentially wasting your time. Your thought might be that salespeople lie, I’ll lie right back to them…fair enough. All I can tell you is that my best success has been, when I’m ready to buy, know what the price I want is-and tell the salesperson this is what I’m willing to pay. They’ll either do it or they won’t, no drama. It might take a few back and forths, a few I’ll check with the boss, but the bottom line is keep a price in mind and stick to it. If they can’t do it, don’t be insulted, don’t feel like you’re being stolen from, simply move on. Different dealerships have different philosophies and cost structures. If your price is realistic someone will sell you the bike.

I’d be naive to suggest that all dealerships are wonderful places run on the up and up. I realize that much like any other business there are all kinds of dealerships. So would you call all dealers Stealerships or just this specific Kawasaki dealer? Bottom line is that salesperson out there is simply trying to make a living just like you and me. If you don’t like the way a specific dealership operates, just move on. However to paint them all with the Stealership brush is simply wrong and insulting. In the past 12 months I’ve purchased a scooter, a motorcycle and a car and every purchase was handled in an utterly professional manner. Incidentally, the DEALERSHIPS I dealt with were Brooklynbretta for the scooter and Great Bay Motorcycles for the motorcycle.

[ranette]

It actually depends on how much “help” you need. If you can get the balls of your feet down pretty solidly, a higher heel will get you flat footed. However, if, like me, your really stubby legs won’t even get you that far, a higher heel won’t do much for you. What will help is a thicker front sole. Too bad I couldn’t get these under my shifter, http://www.wildfree.com/prods/dem-stack308.html.

Personally, not being able to flat foot for me is an inconvenience, but I’ve learned to work around it, and on flat ground it is pretty much of a non issue. When the pavement isn’t flat it can add a bit of adventure to coming to a stop, I’ve had a few moments when I went to put my left foot on the ground and the ground wasn’t there. Never dropped, but a couple of struggles. All in all, I wouldn’t let seat height be THE determining factor in your choice of bike, A factor yes, but a high seat height is something that can be overcome with, like everything else we’re learning, practice and repetition.

[Author]

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