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Honda Grom: Beginner Bike Profile + Owner Reviews
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ranetteParticipant
Can’t comment on the safety of the kits. I can say that my Nolan N 102 has a quick release ratchet system rather than the traditional D rings and it is definitely easier to work with than the D rings.
ranetteParticipantI think this would definitely fall into the category of “Ride your own ride.” Any time the road conditions aren’t optimal there is some sort of risk, and of course the hotter you enter the corner, the more the risk increases. The fact that you are more concerned about the risk than your riding partners doesn’t say anything about your abilities, more about your mindset. And yes, I would consider it normal, and no I wouldn’t consider it a problem.
ranetteParticipantJust goes to show there is no one stock answer for everybody. In my case, after a few weeks on my scooter I was pretty certain that two wheels were going to be a major part of my life for the foreseeable future and invested with that mindset. I can certainly understand those who might not be sure if riding is for them not wanting to go out and spend a chunk of change on a new bike.
ranetteParticipantI can’t really speak for the OP but sometimes the pull towards a certain bike outweighs the cost difference; it did in my case. Most motorcycles are at least in some ways emotional purchases, all of us love to ride, most of us don’t need to ride. Every point you make is valid, you sound downright rational, but if you fall in love with a certain bike, like I did with mine, I was not going to let money, at least within reason, in my case around $2K, push me towards something that didn’t make me go wow every time I looked at it. Also the OP mentioned that he could get a new, at least I believe that it’s new or maybe a demo, Shiver for about $6K, a pretty smoking deal if you ask me. Keep in mind that it should hold it’s value over the years a little better than an SV so in this case maybe going Italian isn’t as expensive as it might seem at first glance.
ranetteParticipantWZ, neither of us probably truly understands how the Rain and Touring modes affect performance, which we probably should before we speak about the bike. From what I’ve heard it definitely makes the throttle more forgiving, but I have to admit I don’t have first hand knowledge. If you’re not a “250 only” guy, I think you’d have to admit that having the option to detune the bike’s performance with a switch is an excellent feature for a beginning rider. Of course the converse is true and the rider has the ability to retune the bike with that same switch.
I just can’t see too much difference in the two bikes when ridden at 0-75mph. Not denying that if you want to be an idiot the Ape will help you along in your stupidity more than the the Suzuki. However, riding along at 50mph and you hit a bump and blip the throttle the Shiver is not going to respond like an R1. With a twin, and the motor in the Shiver is very comparable to the motor in my bike, those extra 30 horses are there, but you have to go out and find them, rather than having them come up and bite you in the ass from a slightly misdirected input like would most likely happen on a liter sized I4.
Bottom line is I think it takes a rider with a mature approach to be able to start on either of the two bikes, however, anyone who successfully learned on an SV650 would probably not have had much of a different experience on a Shiver.
ranetteParticipantWhen people come on and advocate for a 250 as the only reasonable starter bike I won’t respond. I don’t particularly agree but I understand the sentiment. However, to argue for an SV650 and against a Shiver is a little different. The Shiver may be a little more powerful but essentially you are looking at two similar machines. Mid sized V twins with very linear throttle response. If you treat the throttle with the proper respect, which is vital on either an SV650 or a Shiver as a learner, I don’t think those extra horses will come into play. Granted if you get stupid the Aprillia will let you get a little stupider than the Suzuki. However, my guess is that running the Shiver in Rain mode would make it very similar in performance to an SV. Would it take it down to a 250 level? No. Will it make it shed 50 lbs or a few inches of seat height? Of course not and that’s why I won’t argue with anyone about starting on a 250. However, if you’re all right with an SV 650 I don’t think there’s enough difference from the Shiver, especially in the lowest performance mode, to recommend against it.
To the OP, if you could pick up a new Shiver for $6K I’d say jump on it. Then treat it with respect, it can kill you(but so can a Ninja 250) and take the time to learn to ride properly; learning doesn’t end with a passed BRC. If you drop it, pick it up, assess the damage knowing that’s the chance you took by buying a new Aprillia as your first bike.
ranetteParticipantI’m not advocating for or against any particular bike(though I came this close to buying a Shiver) or the accepted wisdom of smaller is better to start. However I would disagree with “used is always better to start” and “Japanese is always better to start”.
I personally am not a mechanic and don’t have the time at this point in my life to learn. I realize that a well maintained, mechanic inspected, used bike should be reliable, but in my book there is nothing like a brand new WARRANTIED new bike. More importantly there are few things I hate more than negotiating the sale of a used vehicle. Don’t know why, but I hate it, and it’s one of the reasons that I lease all of my cars. The thought of buying and selling a bike in a few months time seems rather painful to me. I preferred to take the risk of a low speed drop and any resulting scratches in exchange for owning a new bike. Not saying this is the right move for everyone, but it was for me, meaning it might be right for some others.
As for Japanese only, there are plenty of places with excellent, well stocked, dealerships of all makes and models, Asian, European and American. The Big 4 might be the biggest, but that doesn’t mean their bikes speak to all of us.
ranetteParticipantThe SHARP study, which I’d mentioned in my initial post, rates the helmets effectiveness at four points of impact; front/crown, rear, left and right. In addition, the modular helmets have an additional rating for the effectiveness of the chin bar.
ranetteParticipantThe linked article claimed that the hinge mechanisms on his Nolan hit his temples and did severe damage. It seems like the weak point of many helmets is a side impact. The same SHARP survey that I linked to in a previous post gives barely satisfactory ratings to Arai helmets for this same reason, not because of a hinge mechanism but because of the visor attachment mechanism. Incidentally the Nolan modular scored better in this particular test than many of the FF’s.
The description of his friend’s injuries are pretty graphic. However the writer, to my knowledge, isn’t an expert in head injuries that could explain what happened at the moment of impact. Did you see the bike? It was a pretty hellacious accident and though he did come out with serious injuries the helmet did save his life and there is absolutely no way from that article to ascertain whether a different helmet would have done a better job.
Of course protective gear is a personal choice. However, I would base my choice on professionally conducted tests rather than the observations of one person who is not qualified to analyze what may or may not have happened in a crash. The first time I posted on this site someone responded with a great quote that I think applies here, to the linked article and not to JiK, “The problem with the internet is that everyone gets the same font”.
ranetteParticipantNo pierced nipples here,
http://www.ateliersruby.com/
http://boutiqueruby.com/?lang=eng#/main
but if you have $1000+ to spend on a fashion statement. I did pick one up, literally, physically, picked it up, didn’t purchase it, last time I was in NYC. It was the Sponge Bob helmet. As you might imagine, the fit and finish were superb.ranetteParticipantAre you certain that most modular chin bars are not EPS lined? I don’t have extensive experience, but the two that I tried on, the higher end HJC and the Nolan that I eventually ended up with certainly are.
I could see how trying to build a modular, with all of the moving parts, at a low cost could lead to an inferior product, but from what I’ve seen the better modulars are anything but. My Nolan is built like a ton of bricks, and some say it weighs that much. You can actually see the latching mechanism and it is a metal latch over a metal dowel, not something that would come apart at impact. If I remember reading correctly some of the less expensive modulars, Fullmer was one I believe, have plastic latching mechanisms, not something I’d have extreme confidence in.
ranetteParticipantWZ is correct in that modulars cannot meet Snell standards, so DOT is the only certification that you’ll find on modulars in the US. I also realize that they cannot be worn on the track. However, “the chin bar is really just for show and doesn’t offer a significant amount of protection really over just having a half helmet with a full face shield” is just plain wrong. Here is the SHARP(British government rating) page for my modular, the Nolan N-102, http://sharp.direct.gov.uk/testsratings/nolan-n102. Note at the top, the percentage of impacts where the face guard remained fully locked is 100. To say that a FF offers the maximum amount of protection is fair, but to take the next step and essentially say that the chin bar is nothing more than cosmetic is giving incorrect information.
As for sub $150 modulars I can’t make any suggestions as I don’t have first hand experience with any. My N 102 which has been discontinued can still be found, lowest price I’ve seen is about $175 for the solids. I can tell you that I now ride more frequently with my FF for the two reasons that WZ mentioned above. The modular is significantly heavier and noisier(and my Suomy FF has a reputation for being noisy itself). However the Nolan still gets taken out and I never feel that I am compromising my safety in any way.
ranetteParticipantI think the scooter experience will help immensely. Like mentioned above just the fact that you are used to being on a two wheeled vehicle in traffic is huge. You know how to counter steer and look through turns. Rather than a list of new skills you need to learn, you essentially have one. Shifting.
Eon mentioned the possibility of grabbing the clutch when you meant to hit the rear brake. I can tell you from first hand experience, and also from speaking with others who ride both scooters and motorcycles, much as you might expect it to be an issue, it just doesn’t seem be. Once you get even a few hours experience on a motorcycle your brain will differentiate between the two machines without you even thinking about it. Even in a panic situation(not that I’ve had many) I’ve never forgotten where the brakes are on my motorcycle, and it doesn’t seem to be in issue with other riders either.
As for Gary mentioning that because of rear weight bias motorcycles and scooters handle differently. From the standpoint of a very technical rider, probably. However from the perspective of recreational street rider they handle essentially the same. There are some minor differences, to me the one that stands out is foot placement. The only time this really seems to matter, at least for me, is weighting and unweighting of the pegs-there are no pegs on a scooter-during low speed maneuvers. However I think you’ll find that the only MAJOR difference is shifting. If you can handle that you shouldn’t have too many problems moving from your scooter to a motorcycle.
ranetteParticipantA friend was selling his Triumph. Guy shows up with his dad, definitely serious, not a tire kicker. Said he wouldn’t buy without a test ride. My friend hops in his car with the potential buyer’s dad and proceeds on a nice little 5 minute loop, a few minutes in he checks the rear view, no Triumph. Turned around to retrace their tracks and find him a few hundred yards back. Guy apparently had target fixated and hit a curb. Nothing that serious, somewhere in the range of $200 damage. Thankfully the guy owned up to it and just bought the bike as he was planning on doing before he crashed. Actually my friend probably made a few bucks on the deal, as the guy and his dad were a little embarrassed and just paid the asking price rather than seeing if he might come down a few $$$. However, a different type of buyer would have meant a much less pleasant outcome.
ranetteParticipantNH is a bit of a drive from NYC but here’s a Rebel 450 on Craigslist that seems to be owned by someone who put quite a bit into it.
http://burlington.craigslist.org/mcy/1869614212.html -
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