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MattParticipant
“2. Trust the Lean – This is especially true for beginner motorcyclists.“
QFTI am STILL having huge issues getting past the mental block of leaning my bike far enough.
Also, I am having a lot of trouble learning proper route planning… but I’ll post a story about that later…
MattParticipantShaggles brings up a bike I’d totally forgotten about when I wrote my response. The buell has very similar handling to the Ninja, but trades hp for torque. It has minimal maintenance, and really great plastics in case you drop it (the paint is imbedded in the plastic, just buff the scratch out, no painting required!).
Buell only sells about 10,000 bikes a year, so finding used ones is harder than the ninja. The good news is, used ones ar often found at dealerships where people traded them in for their secodn bike. Buying new, any harley dealership should carry them or at least be able to order them (I’ve found harley dealers to be really helpful at sourcing bikes from other dealerships if they don’t have one you are looking for).
Lastly, if you find the Buell has too much of a “sit up” position for your liking, there are aftermarket bars that bring it down to ninja (or even true sport bike) levels. One of my friends has done this and she loved the effect it had. She still owns her Blast (and her Hubby started with a blast). They are good bikes.
MattParticipantTo quote “Bottom line, I want to learn to ride well”.
Then go for a used Ninja 250. It has more power, better brakes and suspension than the Nighthawk. It’ll give you confidence to progress your skills and is very forgiving when the inevitable mistakes happen. The lack of power not only prevents unplanned acceleration mid-corner, but makes you work to conserve momentum. You never have to fight the bike or worry that it’ll do something unexpected.
Having ridden a BMW, I highly recommend avoiding any BMW as a first bike. It *will* do exactly what you tell it to – long before you have the skills to communicate with it perfectly. If you grab a fistful of brakes with the BMW, you better be upright and ready.
While the GS500 and ninja 500 are both great starter bikes, I think from a pure skill building perspective the ninja 250 is the best bike on the US market (I think the CBR125 available in Canada and Europe is even better, but you trade skill building for the ability to cruise freeways…).
Lastly, I’m old-school in that I think ABS is unwanted on a first bike. If you learn simply to grab a fistful in emergency situations then that will be what is hardwired into your head. Even if every bike you ever own has ABS, chances are you’ll swap rides with someone at some point, and then you’ll need to be able to threshold brake and know (at the muscle level) what to do in skids (both front and back).
June 19, 2008 at 5:15 pm in reply to: Tough descisions>08′ Ninja 250r or 08′ Yamaha V Star 250 ?-UPDATE 6/21 #7521MattParticipantSorry
I know nothing about the 250 Yammy.As always, chosing between a Ninja and any of the 250 cruisers is more about you than the bike. What type of riding do you imagine yourself doing? What image do you like? etc.
MattParticipantThe MP3, a three wheeled scooter is a pretty great bike.
I know it sounds weird, if it has two wheels up front, is it really a bike? The reviewers all agree that it is. It is automatic, comfortable, and nigh undroppable. Plus it can really corner. There are 250cc, 400cc, and 500cc versions (I think). I’ve seen a couple of them around town – thier owners love them.
Frankly, I don’t understand the hate-on many bikers have for scooters. A modern maxi-scoot (like the burgman 650) can cruise at 100mph just fine, and if you’re aggressive can handle pretty well to.
For a good giggle, read this: http://onewheeldrive.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=154&Itemid=124
Acidpope’s comment about boots is good too. Look at something like a Sidi off-road / adventure boot (like the ones worn on Long Way Round / Long Way Down). They provide a lot of ankle support. But since I don’t know what type of motion could upset your ankle, I’d speak with your doctor about it. (The sidi’s protect mostly against a fall breaking your leg, I’m not sure just what sort of stiffining they do to the ankle. Of course, you could always screw on a brace/bracket so the ankle stays fully rigid and you shift by moving your entire lower leg… just thinking aloud).
Lastly, about the weight of the cruiser – cruisers have very low centre of gravities. They are MUCH easier to keep upright / recover than a sportbike of a similar weight. A 450lbs cruiser takes no more effort to keep upright than a 330lbs Ninja 250 (speaking from personal experience).
MattParticipantEach has a trade off, the GSX650 is a MUCH heavier bike than the SV650. Just from that I’d go with the SV650.
Also, if you are talking about the SV650S or 650N (faired sportbike look, or naked bike). The S has lower handlebars and might not be as easy on your arms as the N or the GSX650.
Have you considered the Gs500 or Ninja 500? Both are smaller and lighter than the SV ang GSX while still being plenty of quick. Depending on where you live, those 150cc can make a very large difference in your insurance. But in other places, they’ll make none-at-all (wish I lived in one of those places).
MattParticipantWhen I’m easy on the throttle I routinely see high 60s mpg figures on my ZZR-250. The absolute worst economy I had was 58mpg on a fill up. My personal best was 87mpg.
The ninja-250 will do freeway speeds all day, but in all honesty, the buzzing get to me in under an hour on the highway. So a 250mile trip for me would take at least three breaks to get off and walk about.
Since you are comfortable with big bikes, take a look at some of the slightly larger more recent engine designs. The 800cc BMWs supposedly get 60+ mpg (and that would be a very comfortable way to travel 250 miles).
Additionally, the 650 engine in the Versys (and thus Ninja 650) returns on average just shy of 60mpg accroding to webbikeworld.
http://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcycles/kawasaki-versys/TotalMotorcycle has a fuel economy comparison for a wise range of bike here
http://totalmotorcycle.com/MotorcycleFuelEconomyGuide.htmBut it doesn’t seem to have been updated since 2006.
For sheer cash savings, a used Ninja is hard to beat (especially since it costs so much less than other bikes to buy in the first place)
MattParticipantAs Megaspaz says, motorcycles often have speedos that report the speed as faster than you are really going.
By how much? Not alot. With the exception of some Lifans (chinese made honda clones) I’ve never heard of them being off by more than 10%. So if your speedo said 50, you *may* have been doing as little as 45. My ZZR-250 is pretty much dead on as far as the speedo goes.Don’t worry about the speedo, worry more about the traffic. Go with the flow, maybe slightly faster (very slightly) so you are always moving through the traffic and never getting stuck in someone’s blind spot.
MattParticipantThe notion of buying a bike and keeping it forever just doesn’t hold true. Regardless of original intention, the vast majority of bikers swap their bike every couple of years.
To argue with acidpope, I own a ZZR-250 (basically same as Ninja 250). I now regularly take it on the highway. Freeway speeds are NOT a problem for the ninja. Acceleration with the bike, at any speed is not a rocket. It is a non-linear climb. It feels like an elastic band is pulling you forward, you start accelerating slowly and then it just builds, as you accelerate faster and faster. It’s a very different rush from insta-torque, but it is mighty fun in its own right.
Will a 500/650 out-pull a 250? Every day of the week. But as I said, you won’t be hurting for acceleration, and you can pull some harrowing corner speeds when you start getting good.
Out-growing a 250 is a myth. The bike’s performance envelope is much higher than people imagine. Skilled riders push these bikes around in ways that keep up with lesser riders on far more powerful bikes. The reality is, when someone says they are bored with the 250, really, they just feel like changing bikes. They want something different, and the insta-torque of bigger bikes is appealing. Saying you’re bored with or have out-grown a 250R is nothing more than an excuse for 90% of the people who say it.
Will I move up from my ZZR? Yup. Will it be because I’m pushing the bike’s limits? Not likely.
As for the buzzing- the 250 is an incredibly high revving engine. It redlines at 14000. At 50mph, in 6th, it turns 6000rpm. On the highway at 60mph it turns 8000. At 8000rpm the engine isn’t strained, it is just starting to wake up.
The engine is designed to run at high rpm all day long.My advice is:
Buy the bike you love. Don’t buy the 500 because you are afraid you’ll regret buying the 250. I assure you, you won’t.
But, if you really like the stomp of torque, or just the different seating position of the 500, then go with that.MattParticipantA few 08’s have just popped up on the local classifieds. $5500 FIRM for a bike that retails for $4300 brand spanking new…
Jeez, talk about demand…My buddy paid for one in April, only to find out the dealership wouldn’t be getting any more until the fall… that really sucks for him.
No doubt about it, Kawi has a hit on their hands… now if only they’d build more so we can buy more!
MattParticipantThis story has popped up on the net everywhere recently.
From what I can tell it is based on a poorly done and/or out of date view of motorcycles.From what I understand the testing lumps together:
Road Legal motorcycles, 2-stroke scooters, non-road legal 2-stroke dirt bikes, non road legal ATVs. And it assume they all emit the same pollutants.
So basically they are using the average polutants for a wide range of vehicles (Many of which were never designed to pass any emissions testing what so ever) and using it to describe on-road motorcycles.They mention that most motorcycles do not have catalytic converters, but any bike that meets the 2004 Euro standard (so is for sale in Europe now) has a catalytic converter. The newest standard (Euro tier 3) is pretty strict. Read any review of an internationally released bike and they’ll mention how it meets those standards. The California standards are slightly more strict. So any bike that passes the California EPA testing is a clean machine.
Here is a slightly more in-depth look at motorcycle EPA standards (circa 2007).
http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/Article_Page.aspx?ArticleID=4352&Page=1A US Tier 1 (2006) Motorcycle (so any motorcycle sold since 2006) is required to emit no more than:
1.4g/kg Hydrocarbons + NOx Combined
12g/km CarbonmonoxideTeir 2 (2008 in California, 2010 rest of USA)
Reduces Hydrocrabons and NOx to 0.8g/kgNow, if we compare we can see that a current light-duty vehicle(passenger car, more strick that trucks and SUVs) is required to emit less than: (from: http://www.epa.gov/otaq/cert/veh-cert/b00001.pdf )
0.25g/kg Hydrocarbons
0.4g/kg NOx
and 3.4g/kg CarbonmonoxideOkay, so yes, cars definitely produce less polutants. But 10x? No.
By law a car produces 0.65 grams of hydrocarbons and NOx per kilogram as compared to the motorcycle’s 1.4g/kg (a motorcycle produces just over twice the hydrocarbons and NOx per kilogram).
And a car 3.4 grams of carbonmonoxide as compard to the bike’s 12g/kg. Which means the bike produces 3.5x the amount of carbonmonoxide as a car.Now, what I’m not entirely sure on is the measure of g/kg. Is it one kilogram of fuel or one kilogram of exhaust gases (most likely the later). In either case this means things are better for the bikes than it looks. Because a bike uses less petrol (and thus makes a smaller amount of exhaust).
The article sights motorcycles have roughly twice the fuel efficency as cars. And given that 50mpg seems to be a fairly often sighted number for motorcycle economy, and 25mpg for cars, we’ll play fast and loose and say that a motorcycle produces one half the amount of exhaust as a car for the same distance travelled.
Following this generalization the motorcycles make roughly equivilant hydrocarbons and NOx to passenger cars and produce twice the carbonmonoxide per distance travelled.
So once again, are motorcycles more polluting than cars? Yes. They produce roughly twice the carbonmonoxide that a car does. They produce roughly the same hydrocarbons. Is a Hummer less polluting? NO because it produces far more exhaust per distance travelled than any motorcycle does.
MattParticipantWell, automatic and sports bike really are mutually exclusive.
It also doesn’t make a ton of sense, since learning to shift is a very important part of learning to ride a motorcycle…
looking through the RTA site I see nothing about automatic vs manual… near as I can tell the only bikes under 250cc you can’t ride are GP replica racers (which you wouldn’t really want to learn on anyways). and for the list above 260cc, they pretty much only limit supersports. The Ninja 500 (EX500) is allowed, as are basically all the fun-yet-not-insane middleweights.
Honestly, it looks like a good list to chose from…
Can you point me to where it says you can’t have a manual transmission?
(oh and the CBR125 is a sweet little bike).
MattParticipantDon’t be looking for a bike you can wheelie on right away. While it may be fun in the parking lot (I can’t honestly say, never having done one) hitting your throttle and having your front end lift while in a corner is most assuredly NOT a fun thing.
Walk before you run and all that. I assure you, you wil lfind ways to stay entertained on a small displacement sportbike, even without pullign wheelies or stoppies.
The Hyosung 250 won’t do 170km/h, not without some serious help.
The Nina 250 will do 160 km/h. In theory, in 6th it’ll redline at 180kph, but without a strong backwind and a long downhill, you won’t see that.I’m not sure where you decided that the GS500F is the only good sub-600cc sportbike. The Ninja 500 is at least its equal, most reviews say it is actually the more fun of the two. As for a full list of sub-600cc sport bikes, add in the Buell Blast and you’ve basically got the list.
MattParticipantLoki, I’m curious why you think 250 won’t be enough bike for you?
I’ve got 30 pounds on you, and I assure you a Ninja will happily play at freeway speeds (80+ mph) with my weight on it. As for the height, I’ve got my leg room on my bike than I do on a ZZR-600 or my Dad’s 1983 GS450.
Don’t discount the Ninja until you’ve sat on it. Also, the forward lean on it is negligible.
MattParticipantI can’t speak for Dainese’s moto gear, but their DH mountainbike gear is (or at least was until recently) just about the best you could get, presuming a) you could afford it and b) you are built like an italian athlete.
I’m 6′ 180pounds. I’m not fat, not even big boned. But I do have fairly large calves and upper legs (part of that whole cyclist thing). But even Dainese’s XL stuff is too small for me. Anything they have that can make it’s way around my calf is way too long for me.
So yea, I’m really curious wheather or not Dainese moto gear actually fits a “normal” north american male.
As for the question at hand, my Mother owns a set of Joe Rocket Alter Ego pants & jacket. She isn’t exactly large (Ben, don’t go there, this is my mother we’re talking about!) but the frilly girly stuff is kept to a minimum. And the Alter Ego stuff is really good in both hot and rain (just not both at the same time).
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