[Rupmisc]

HI,

Some little time ago, my wife suggested that I might enjoy riding a motorcycle (she didn’t mention any new life insurance policies). I have jumped horses, and have taken a number of performance driving courses. I am 54, am conservative by nature, have two teenaged daughters, and don’t have a death wish.

I live in MA, took a three day motorcycle course and am expecting to receive my license in the mail. I am on the fence about buying a bike. I have no desire to tackle a highway yet, am willing to do much practicing in tight spaces, and would be happy at 35mph on suburban roads for some time.

I did not (have not) taken naturally to motorcycles. Much on a bike is counterintuitive to driving a car; especially counter-steering. Maybe it was the horses, but I feel more comfortable with a standard or sport configuration, than with a cruiser (at least I think so). I have read much on this site and others about the benefits of starting with a 250. I sat on a ninja 250 today, and it didn’t feel too small, even though I am 6′ and 190 lbs. The nighthawk I learned on did feel a little like my knees were in my face.

Having said all that, no one has a 2008 ninja 250. I am not especially price sensitive, but I am safety sensitive. Salesmen keep suggesting that I would be better off on a ninja 650 (even when they have one in stock, no one likes the 500). It looks as if I’ll have to compromise something.

Many of the beginner bikes mentioned on this site, are no longer manufactured. I do not have an ego (at least on this subject) and don’t care about engine size. I do care about safety, and although I can handle a car without ABS just fine, I have far less confidence on a motorcycle. [Rambling so far, huh?].

So, some questions:

1) Even if I wanted, could not find a Suzuki with ABS around here. Only choice would be a BMW 800cc and $13,000. Seems too big, and a lot of money for something I don’t know well yet.

2) Cruisers seem odd to me-weird feeling (standing still) having feet in front. Seems like it would be harder to turn? But could find a 250. Could also find a 250 nighthawk.

3) Should I consider going larger. I lack confidence, but not common sense. The Suzuki 500 sport bike is available, but it seems bulky. The ninja 650 is actually conformable. Should I just wait for a ninja 250 or for the alleged redesign of the 500. In Massachusetts, I have no desire for riding in other than ideal weather conditions, so waiting probably means until next year.

4) I like standards, but they don’t happen below 600, and then you get BMWs, Triumphs and the like. So, stick to forward?

I am located on Boston’s north shore. Can go around here, to Boston, or southern NH. Trust in dealers is not something I am developing rapidly. Wish I could be better on the clarity of the questions. But any general directions from the more experienced would be greatly appreciated.

Anyway, nice to meet you. I appreciate all of the information that you have already provided me.

[megaspaz]

Always take what a salesman says with a grain of salt. They’re there to make a buck. A sales guy will have no problems selling you a litre bike as a first bike.

No used ninja250s in your local classifieds/craigslist/etc. ? I can’t believe there wasn’t an SV650 S/SF ABS in stock either although I can only go with what I see here in my local area dealerships…

Yeh, a BMW isn’t really a beginner bike per se and they are expensive. An SV650 model bike’s fine as a first/beginner bike and with ABS it’s icing on the cake. I’m sure you could have the dealer special order an SV with ABS with no problem. But as long as there isn’t a chance of getting a ninja250 period and you really really must have a bike, being a SV650S ABS rider as a first bike, I can wholeheartedly recommend an SV650 S/SF model.

And while ABS is nice, people have been riding forever without it. So don’t let not having ABS scare you off.

Oh yeh, Welcome! (-:

—
If there’s anything more important than my ego
around, I want it caught and shot now…

[Rupmisc]

Thanks especially for responding to such a verbose, rambling, post. I actually did try to edit it from another computer, but the replacement text didn’t make it to this site (my computer issue-not site problem).

If you don’t mind my asking, is the ninja 650 (doesn’t have ABS as option) any more or less appropriate than the SV650? It may be more comfortable for me, seemingly a little lighter and narrower. Or, is is a completely different animal?

There seems little to no chance of getting a new Ninja 250 within 10 weeks. I haven’t seen the older 250 anywhere, but understand that it is different from the 2008 in many ways, including position.

[megaspaz]

I really haven’t heard much about the ninja 650r, most likely due to the enormous popularity of the sv650 line. What I have heard is that it’s very comparable to the sv650 in terms of newbie friendliness. There was one middleweight shoot out with the ninja 650r, sv650, honda something in an online mag… Can’t remember which one it is, but the riders judged it to be as good a beginner bike as the sv650 line. They also said it had a more upright riding position which new riders might find more comfortable.

—
If there’s anything more important than my ego
around, I want it caught and shot now…

[bam37]

As am sure you have read before, any bike in the 600cc range or lower is going to be a good beginner bike. There are of course some exceptions with BMWs, Ducati’s and the like. However, form what i have heard about the Ninja 650 it also seems like a good beginner bike. If you are willing to spend the 6500 MSRP on the bike, plus another 500-600 for good gear then i would say go for it. I recently purchased the ninja 250R and it should be in within a week or so. The only reason i went with the 250 was because my father insisted i get a smaller bike or he would stop helping me pay for college, which is something i need him for. (tehehe)

But, also remember, because you are new to motorcycle’s that you will drop your bike. It just happens. I’ve riden motorcycles and dirtbikes since i was 12 and i have dropped a bike more than the number of fingers and toe’s i have. Therefore, it might also be a good idea to try and buy a used bike. a Suzuki GS500E or F is a good choice. It is more of a naked bike than the ones you have listed but still sporty. Also buying used and learning about how to ride them comfortably on a used one might build your confidence to be able to handle a new bike. As well as you might not be as concerned about dropping a used one than dropping a new one.

Also, since safety is a big concern of yours i might add that there are not much in the way of features that bikes can have like cars for safety. Now, don’t get me wrong, there are things that they can have to improve the safety. However, when in a crash, its what the rider is wearing that is most important. Make sure to buy the right gear. Its going to be expensive but well worth it. Make sure to buy a jacket, gloves, boots, and pants with some armor. With all of this, a crash at 35 mph(what you said you would feel more comfortable with) would protect you SO much more than if you just wore a regular jacket or such.

Now, i don’t know if you already knew any of this, but i felt i could add my two cents.
Bam

[Rupmisc]

I hear you on the gear, thanks. I also understand the dropping the new one part. Let’s just say that I’m not as concerned about paying for new plastic, as I am about getting the right bike. I want to be around to pay my kids’ college tuition.

It just comes down to size (the 650 is more comfortable) vs. power (I suspect 650 is too much?). The 650 still feels lighter, more comfortable (not running) that the Suzuki. But if it is stupid to get one, I am happy to squat on a nighthawk for a year, or even get a cruiser style in a 250, although I wonder if a cruiser is less maneuverable than a standard. There is a Kimco cruiser that is larger but is a 250. Any comments.

I have also seen a used Honda CB500?. It has custom handlebars, but is otherwise an upright bike. How would this one be for a beginner.

Bottom line, I want to learn to ride well, and am willing to stay at 250 if that is the best idea. If a ninja 500 or 650 is equally fine, I’m happier buying new, and can afford to scratch the bike-but not myself.

BTW is there a way to subscribe to this thread so that I know when there has been a response?

[megaspaz]

Well power wise, I can’t really see anyone ever really pushing an sv650 or a ninja650r to its limits on the open road…. Legally that is. The fact that you’re so unsure, makes me want to tell you to go with a 250cc bike. But from everyone I’ve ever talked to, an sv650 or ninja650 makes a decent beginner first bike.

megaspaz proverb: when in doubt, chicken out.

—
If there’s anything more important than my ego
around, I want it caught and shot now…

[Rupmisc]

I wasn’t suggesting I’d try top speed, but control. As an analogy, my good weather car is a 2002 BMW M5 (400 BHP) manual. I have no trouble driving it in city traffic or accelerating slowly if I want to. But there is no trouble going from 30 to 90 in third gear, fast (controlled conditions, track, legal…). When I let a trusted friend drive the car, they tend to need time to adjust to the throttle/speed.

I am worried about not being able to control the bike at low speeds, or about the risk of unintentionally goosing the throttle. I am less concerned about being tempted to go to fast on purpose. I am more worried about an abrupt throttle goose, or some other newbie mistake sending we flying. I want to be able to practice at low speed. With the smaller bike, it didn’t take much lean to put me real close to the pavement.

So, it is a comfort/balance thing, plus a desire to be able to maneuver a lighter bike. I can restrain myself from intentionally going quickly. I am also curious if, based on my extremely limited experience, that the more forward bikes are easier to turn precisely.

Anyway, no ego. Yes, I am cautions. I am less concerned about money than some, so can get the right bike. Does that help describe my issue. I’m pretty sure I could find a Ninja 500 (which everyone seems to think will be redone next year, and doesn’t seem to like), or a 650. But if a 250 is the right bike, I’ll do it. I can easily upgrade in a year if that would be better. I do wonder if, mechanically, the Nighthawk is as good as some of the 250 cruisers (Yamaha for example), and whether I should avoid the Nighthawk.

[megaspaz]

I’m inclined to agree that a lower cc bike being lighter than 500cc or 600+cc bikes are better for learning how to ride at slower speeds. Kinda depends on what you mean by slower too. Just about any bike’s harder to deal with below ~5mph. In this case having a lighter bike’s definately a big plus. at speed, around 15 mph and above, this weight difference is somewhat negligible. Certain situations requiring certain maneuvers might be better on a lighter bike, but if you’re doing everything right (S.E.E) then these maneuvers don’t come into play. Good to practice them though in an empty parking lot in case doing everything right isn’t enough.

—
If there’s anything more important than my ego
around, I want it caught and shot now…

[bam37]

i have to agree with megaspaz on this one. The 250 is going to have less jump at the throttle than some of the bigger bikes, therefore if learning how to control throttle is a concern then smaller might be the way to go.

and i dont think you can subscribe to this thread…wish there was a way to do so

[Matt]

To quote “Bottom line, I want to learn to ride well”.

Then go for a used Ninja 250. It has more power, better brakes and suspension than the Nighthawk. It’ll give you confidence to progress your skills and is very forgiving when the inevitable mistakes happen. The lack of power not only prevents unplanned acceleration mid-corner, but makes you work to conserve momentum. You never have to fight the bike or worry that it’ll do something unexpected.

Having ridden a BMW, I highly recommend avoiding any BMW as a first bike. It *will* do exactly what you tell it to – long before you have the skills to communicate with it perfectly. If you grab a fistful of brakes with the BMW, you better be upright and ready.

While the GS500 and ninja 500 are both great starter bikes, I think from a pure skill building perspective the ninja 250 is the best bike on the US market (I think the CBR125 available in Canada and Europe is even better, but you trade skill building for the ability to cruise freeways…).

Lastly, I’m old-school in that I think ABS is unwanted on a first bike. If you learn simply to grab a fistful in emergency situations then that will be what is hardwired into your head. Even if every bike you ever own has ABS, chances are you’ll swap rides with someone at some point, and then you’ll need to be able to threshold brake and know (at the muscle level) what to do in skids (both front and back).

[Rupmisc]

The new ones are both comfortable for someone my size, and totally unavailable. The older ones are less comfortable, seem not nearly so well regarded, and almost equally hard to find. If I want 250 it looks like nighthawk is only standard option. Could get a 250 cruiser?

I appreciate the advice and it is well taken. I just may have to try and find a 500, either a ninja, or a GS sport (lots of plastic). There is a used CB500 around but it has custom handle bars, looks beaten up for a 2006 and the asking price is $6100 US. I have no experience buying used, but I’ll see if I can find some help. I’ll also see if there are any used ninja 250s, but I’m not getting my hopes up.

Are cruiser style bikes as good to learn on as anything else?

[shaggles]

Do you have a Harley dealer around there? The Buell Blast looks like it might fit in with what you’re looking for.

[Matt]

Shaggles brings up a bike I’d totally forgotten about when I wrote my response. The buell has very similar handling to the Ninja, but trades hp for torque. It has minimal maintenance, and really great plastics in case you drop it (the paint is imbedded in the plastic, just buff the scratch out, no painting required!).

Buell only sells about 10,000 bikes a year, so finding used ones is harder than the ninja. The good news is, used ones ar often found at dealerships where people traded them in for their secodn bike. Buying new, any harley dealership should carry them or at least be able to order them (I’ve found harley dealers to be really helpful at sourcing bikes from other dealerships if they don’t have one you are looking for).

Lastly, if you find the Buell has too much of a “sit up” position for your liking, there are aftermarket bars that bring it down to ninja (or even true sport bike) levels. One of my friends has done this and she loved the effect it had. She still owns her Blast (and her Hubby started with a blast). They are good bikes.

[shaggles]

Another thing that’s had me thinking about the Blast lately is gas mileage. They claim 68 mpg.

[Author]

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