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Honda Grom: Beginner Bike Profile + Owner Reviews
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Jeff in KentuckyParticipant
The trees were cleared many years ago, but I say close enough. I think of this song for your bike, but people like different colors:
Jeff in KentuckyParticipantPeople will think about closeness to a mechanic and new parts, how it feels to sit on it, luggage space, rider and passenger comfort, cornering ability, looks, and maybe dozens of other factors, but here are some spec comparisons for some sport tourers:
2009 Moto Guzzi Griso:
price: $13,490
horsepower: 88.12011 Triumph Sprint GT:
price: $13,199
horsepower: 1282009 Kawasaki Concours 14:
price: $14,299 ($13,499 non-ABS)
horsepower: 133.92009 Suzuki Bandit 1250S (there is an A version for 2011 with a new engine design):
price: $8799
horsepower: 982009 BMW K1200R Sport
price: $17,260
horsepower: 134.32011 Ninja 1000:
price $10,999
horsepower: 123.4Jeff in KentuckyParticipantIn the old days of all air-cooled bikes, people on a budget bought single cylinders, and wealthier people often bought twins for more power, or more weight and less vibration to make the bike more comfortable on long trips. The V-twins like a Harley or Indian or Vincent or Crocker were narrow for dirt road ruts, but the back cylinder got hotter and shortened the engine life. Later, Triumph had a parallel twin so both cylinders were in the wind to increase the engine life, and they could have higher compression with higher reliability from less overheating.
BMW has the boxer twin for a lower center of gravity for comfort, but in a tight corner or a crash the heads can more easily hit the ground. The Moto Guzzis had the air-cooled heads higher (transverse V-twin), for more cornering clearance, and the heads are in the wind for more air cooling, to last longer than the Indian or Harley V-twin. Indians had V-twins first, and Harley copied them, but some tiny companies that went bankrupt had V-twins before either of them, with looser patent laws at the time, so there is no patent for the V-twin design. Harley tried to patent their V-twin sound and failed.
Moto Guzzis are nice bikes- the Italian company takes the time and money to make them look and sound good and corner well, but they are small niche bikes with a higher price new or used, and slower and heavier compared to similar Japanese sport-tourers, more on the touring end of the scale, but with a different and to some better look and sound and feel. I think they are too heavy and too expensive for most beginners.
Here is a newer black Griso 1100:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97ZnF6x1sFQ&feature=related
Since they are quite reliable, you can sometimes find an old one like this for cheap that still runs well:
http://ratbike.org/docs/254.php
Honda had a liquid cooled Moto Guzzi copy for awhile, but most people said it was too top-heavy and it did not sell for long:
Jeff in KentuckyParticipantI would take it to someone who has rode SV-650s before, to see if your bike is handling normally.
For a new tire, I am extra careful for the first few days, until the tire has a rougher broken in surface, while gradually taking corners a little faster until I am up to my normal speeds. For race tires, they often go slower for one lap, to get the tires heated up.
Jeff in KentuckyParticipantoriginally printed @ beginnerbikes.com, August 2003
from a longer article by Richard Rose, with 7 Honda Shadow VLX bikes, some stock and some customized.Here we shall look at a topic many of us slept through in school: geometry. Specifically front end geometry concerning motorcycles.
First off we’ll look at rake. Rake (also known as Castor Angle) is the angle of the steering head — and consequently the forks as well as on most bikes they are parallel, in relation to a perpendicular line going from the ground through the steering head. A steeper angle yields a shorter wheelbase, a larger angle yields the chopper-esque longer wheelbase. Of course the frame/swingarm design also has a lot to do with the wheelbase, but the angle of the front end will ultimately seal the final figure.
Wheelbase will ultimately determine how much lean a motorcycle requires to handle a turn at a given speed. Take two different bikes regardless of weight and power into the same curve at the same speed, the one with the longer wheelbase will have to lean at a greater angle than the shorter wheelbased model in the curve. This means a 250 Rebel with its diminuative 57.1″ wheelbase will be able to take “Deadman’s Curve” at a speed of 45mph with a 25º lean, a Vulcan Mean Streak with it’s massive 67.1″ wheelbase would take the same curve at the same speed but with a sharper lean of 30º (these figures are simply for reference concerning this imaginary situation) This means that the faster both bikes go, the Vulcan will be dragging parts sooner than the Rebel as it will be leaning more to maintain the same speed as the Rebel in the same curves (further proof of the falacy concerning “outgrowing a beginner bike”). This is why sport bikes have shorter wheelbases by design than cruisers, it enables them to take curves at higher speeds.
Next up is trail. Trail is a somewhat confusing concept. The measurement itself is taken by drawing an imaginary line through the steering axis to the ground. Next drop a perpendicular line from the front axle to the ground, which in any production motorcycle should fall some distance behind the point where the steering axis line touches down. The distance between these two points is your trail dimension. Trail ultimately defines the handling characteristics of a motorcycle, how stable it will be at higher speeds, how easy it will flick through S-curves, and how easy it will be to control at sub idle parking lot maneuvers. Bikes with a short trail will be real easy to handle at slow speeds and quite responsive when the road gets occupied with esses, but at higher speeds these bikes will respond more to the road conditions and feel a bit twitchy. On the other side of the coin, bikes with longer trail dimensions may handle like a wheelbarrow in a parking lot, require a bit more encouragement to tackle an S curve, but track straight and true like an arrow at freeway speeds, offering little response to the road until the handlebars are activated by the rider. The trick for the motorcycle designer is to find some happy medium for the bike he/she is designing, something that will match the role the bike is intended for.
Let’s look at two different motorcycles that are compatible in terms of size and weight, Kawasaki’s EN500 Vulcan and Honda’s 600cc Shadow VLX. The Vulcan tips the scales at 439 pounds (dry weight), has a 62.7″ wheelbase, and sports a 33º rake and 5.9″ trail dimension. The Shadow weighs in at 439 pounds dry (or 445 with the chrome Deluxe package), stretches out to 63.2″ for wheelbase, and has a 35º rake/6.5″ trail dimension.
Without riding either one, we can presume the following handling characteristics based on what we now know about rake and trail: The Vulcan should be able to negotiate slow speed maneuvers with a bit more ease compared to the VLX thanks to a shorter trail, and at the same time it should be able to handle curves and corners slightly faster than the VLX as it won’t lean over as far at any given speed due to its half inch shorter wheelbase. The Vulcan also shouldn’t require as much force to negotiate an S-curve. On the freeway leading out of town, take both bikes up to the posted 75mph speed limit and the VLX will handle better, because its longer trail dimension offers better stability at higher speeds than the Vulcan. I’ve ridden both machines and can attest that these are in fact true.
If you don’t do the research and just start throwing things together from aftermarket catalogs, you could end up with a Franken-bike sporting an unholy handling pact that can bite back.
Bikes with longer rake and trail dimensions can be expected to be quite stable on the freeway but will feel more sluggish in curves and slow speeds, those with shorter rake and trail will be easier to control at slow speeds and in the curves but will feel more twitchy on the freeway.
(Shadow Shack answers email at an addy that can be found in his forum profile
Chop 2 It!)One word of caution on rigid/hardtail rides like stock Harleys built before the 1960s (Indians had back shocks much earlier); forget what you know about proficient cornering. Curves and corners will need to be taken slowly, as any bumps in the road can send your rear skipping and skating along causing a loss of traction. If you habitually try to beat every yellow light in right turns, this isn’t the mod for you. Bumps and potholes can send your tail skywards too, and rough roads can rattle your fillings loose. All in all this is a barhopper’s mod, but if you’re willing to sacrifice good handling in the name of style, nothing looks cooler than a slammed rear end and a fat tire stuffed up into the fender. Rear lowering kits can be had from numerous manufacturers including Highway Hawk, Scootworks, and Cobra. One good source for modifying OEM shocks is Sons of Thunder Metric Cycles, and SOTMC along with Scootworks carry hardtail struts for some models.
The most extreme choppers out there have frames that are modified for more rake, raked trees are added for looks and to make the bike more manageable, and the rear is often lowered.
Check out Seeger Cycle Accessories for info on chopper kits, they have them available for both Harleys and Metrics.
Check out the various HR3 kit bikes in the Custom Chrome catalog, you can get a complete kit that works right and looks good starting at $13,000 and up, and oftentimes that’s less than the asking price of a used stock Hog. Getting a title on a kit bike is easier than a custom build, but not as quick and painless as it would be with a factory production model.
In closing there are a few things I’d like to point out about the chopper mod. Do the research before buying your first part(s). Lots of it. Especially concerning rake and trail. Make sure you have everything you’ll need for the transformation before turning that first wrench, after all you don’t want to have the major stuff done and then find out you need a longer brake and speedo line. This means you’ll be forced to drool all over an unrideable bike while those parts are awaiting delivery somewhere in Podunkville. Having a second bike to ride is always beneficial, I have no qualms about the “one to ride and one for show” principle. Also of noteworthy mention, aftermarket parts designed to spec doesn’t neccessarily translate into quick and easy bolt-on simplicity. Expect to run into snags along the way, one company I went with (Rizoma) was so far off in every respect with my Shadow I think I would have had an easier time adapting Harley parts. Aftermarket parts compatibility isn’t the only issue to contend with, in some cases your kickstand ends up being too long or too short and the bike will be parked in a near upright or waaaaay leaned over stance, so be prepared to modifiy or exchange that too. If you can, purchase the most expensive parts first as they won’t get any cheaper in the next year or two thanks to inflation.
Finally, while this kind of modification can be easily performed on a beginner bike, it is not a beginner mod. A chopper is to the new cruiser rider as a 600+cc supersport is to the new sport rider. They handle much differently. They brake much differently. They corner much differently. In other words, get some good saddle time in on your first bike before considering a chopper. Besides, with a long wheelbase you’ll never pass the DMV riding portion of the license test when it comes time for the slalom through the cones. And leave early for work, because while the front wheel may be on time you’ll be five minutes late.
Keep those raked knees in the breeze.
Jeff in KentuckyParticipantI am guessing he did years of crashes to learn to ride trials like that.
Here is a guy on an 800-pound Goldwing doing some skilled tight cornering, that would be much easier on a lighter bike. Beginners- watch where he is looking when he corners:
Jeff in KentuckyParticipantSince I know very little about suspensions, my post will be fairly short.
Almost all bikes come with a back shock adjustable for preload- how stiff the spring is when you are sitting on the bike. Adjust it stiffer for more weight on the bike or for faster cornering, but the bike will be bouncier on bumps and less comfortable for smooth straight pavement. If the preload is set too low, the back shock will bottom out sooner on big bumps, and the bike will wallow through turns and feel less stable. I experimented with my back shock preload, and a middle setting was best for my 200 pounds, and a higher setting would be best for a big passenger added for a long trip. A 100 pound rider would probably be best off with one of the lower settings for normal street use. My back shock came from the dealership set at 2, with 1 the lowest and 7 the highest- this setting is probably best for a person weighing about 150 pounds. I moved it to 4, a compromise between comfort and better cornering.
Most bikes are greatly improved by having an expert rebuild the back shock or shocks, or getting a newer used shock from someone with a sportier bike, when they replaced their stock back shock before it wore out for track days. Here is one company that rebuilds back shocks:
http://www.cyclepathic.com/ninja1000/ninja1000suspension.htm
The front forks on a cheap bike have no adjustments. For more weight on the bike, you can buy stiffer springs, add spacers to compress the stock springs more, or add heavier and more fork oil. I used the cheapest and easiest method, more and heavier fork oil, after my bike had 2,000 miles on it and the new springs started to sag more. A bike with preload adjustment for the front forks can have the sag set, but all of the sag and damping adjustments will vary depending on a rider’s style- pros have a range of settings that are typical, and it is up to the individual to do any fine tuning for more comfort or more speed in corners.
Jeff in KentuckyParticipantThis below is a great book for beginners and experienced riders, and my local public library has it. The section about having a passenger was especially good:
http://www.amazon.com/Total-Control-Performance-Street-Techniques/dp/0760314039
Jeff in KentuckyParticipantI have a similar windshield from National Cycle, and like its improved comfort and reduced wind noise, although it does make my cruiser look less like this bike below that it copies, also with a 4-speed transmission and V-twin engine (1936 was the first, this Honda in 2007 was the last), except the Muroc Dry Lakes version shown below with its smaller windshield:
Jeff in KentuckyParticipantIt looked like in the first video, the bike fell on the dummy’s leg after the crash, and in the second video, the left leg smashed into the back of the fairing during the crash.
Many are still trying to convince dumb riders that a full-face helmet, long pants and an armored jacket are good ideas- every summer I see squids dressed for the beach on their bikes, raising my insurance premiums.
My goal is to never crash, and I have not crashed since 1984. I would probably not pay extra for an airbag, if I wanted to buy a Goldwing, but if people keep buying an airbag, Honda will keep offering it as an option.
Jeff in KentuckyParticipantThe Honda Goldwing airbag is designed and crash tested for the typical frontal crash at an intersection, at about 35 mph or less. At higher speeds, you will still fly over the handlebars, but a little slower and with less damages likely from hitting the handlebars and hitting any windshield before going over the front of the motorcycle:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kWu8mvXDaE&feature=related
Here is some more crash testing, at a slightly higher speed with and without the airbag (talking in a northern European language):
Jeff in KentuckyParticipantHere are some cornering tips. Generally, the bike will lean a lot farther than you think before the tires start to slide, and in an emergency you want to slow down as much as possible:
Jeff in KentuckyParticipant“The future’s uncertain and the end is always near”, some great writing by Jim Morrison.
I missed hitting a deer running across the road by inches one time while on my motorcycle, and my wife hit a deer with her car and did thousands of dollars of damage to the front of the car, and the deer died.
Every time we drive or ride we risk our lives. I minimize the riding risks by limiting my riding to 2,500 miles a year, mostly on roads I know very well during the day when it is dry. I have a will and life insurance, just in case. Riding is dangerous, which makes it more exciting. Another reason to start on a less expensive bike- you may decide the risk is too much for you and decide to sell it and give up riding.
Here is a link to the Doors song:
Jeff in KentuckyParticipantHere is another stand up song:
Jeff in KentuckyParticipantHere is a song for the first day back in the saddle, I especially like the gas station photo:
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