[eon]

For a long time I entered corners too fast for my ability and scared myself countless times. Eventually (I’m a slow learner) I learned to not worry about my speed and to concentrate on picking the correct line with no to minimal steering corrections mid corner. Once you start doing that things get easier. It also allows you to have positive throttle input (not necessarily accelerating) and that REALLY makes a huge difference. If your off/on the throttle then the bike is wobbling all over the place as the weight shifts around. Constant throttle and the bike sits secure and everything is smooth. Can’t emphasize enough how much being smooth makes everything so much easier.

Next up I would work on getting your head leaned into the corner. “Kiss the mirror” is a phrase that sums up well what you are trying to do. The simple act of moving your head into the corner can have a big difference. Moving your butt to the inside makes a big difference as well but that is something I hold off attempting till you are comfortable doing the above. These techniques apply to all kind of bikes but are perhaps more necessary for cruisers as by design they have less lean angle available than sport bikes. All too often I see cruiser riders not move their body at all as they corner. Just a little body movement could mean they are not dragging hard parts.

Set your entry speed by looking as far round the corner as you can see (the vanishing point). You should be able to stop within that distance. By keeping an outside line you will be able to maximize how far round you can see.
If the vanishing point gets closer to you then the corner is tightening and you should slow down.
If the vanishing point gets further away then the corner is opening up and you can speed up.
Hold the outside line until the corner starts to open up fully and then head for a late apex.
MSF teaches you outside-inside-outside but you may want to change this in the real world. In S type curves you will want to do outside-inside as this will leave you on the outside for the next curve. You want to be planning where you want to be for the next curve while navigating the current one. Again, keeps things smooth and under control.

All of the above info I’ve gleamed from training courses and instructional dvds. A lot of info above and it takes time to practice to make it 2nd nature. I would take it one step at a time as any time I change one aspect of my riding things go backward for awhile till I get the hang of it.

[eon]

One thing to remember about lifting your bike is that sport bikes are harder to lift than cruisers as they tend to fall over further. A cruiser will typically still have rubber on the ground but a sport bike may be flat on its side. I’m not sure about the ninja but I suspect that it would fall over quite far.

Like the others have said, small steps quickly become large ones. You did pass the MSF so you ARE qualified to ride in a parking lot. There is nothing wrong with (and is highly recommended) to spent a lot of time in a parking lot in the beginning honing your skills. Once the mechanics of controling your bike at slow speed become reflexive, riding on the street becomes much easier. You can now spend much more of your limited attention span on the road instead of the bike. Now that you are SEEing things long before they become a potential issue, you are suddenly relaxed and not prone to feeling panic or being out of control. Honestly, it is hard and overwhelming in the beginning but your rate of learning will be very rapid and soon you will be looking back wondering how you survived these early days

Another website to check out is meetup.com. I’ve made some great friends through meetup groups and have lots of riding buddies now.

[eon]

That should be your signature line

[eon]

First off, if TR wants to continually bang a drum on a subject he is passionate about, good for him. If you disagree with him then say so but don’t make it personal. You WZ, have used this board to talk about weight loss and personal problems and have received nothing but positive support. I’m disappointed you felt it was acceptable to make personal attacks on TR just because you don’t agree with him. One thing I learned from Elwood whose views were often the polar opposite of my own, was just because someone has a different point of view does not mean they (or you) are wrong.

Second, just because you live in an urban environment does not mean you have no access to dirt. The entire west coast is extremely urban but with amazing off road areas to ride. I have lived in Atlanta (9th largest city in America) and I know I could have found somewhere to ride offroad. I’ve also lived in NJ and even there I’m pretty sure there are places to be found. And no truck/trailer is required if you get a 250 dual sport. They are plenty capable of getting you to the offroad areas all by themselves.

But back on topic, why do more people not learn on dirt? I think it comes down to whatever reason prompted you to buy a bike to begin with. Whether you want look like Valentino Rossi or an extra from Wild Hogs, that desire does not mesh well with riding around a muddy field. I have no doubt the skills are transferable but why would you want to delay getting what you want? When you first started driving a car did you first take up karting? Learn basic skills then before moving onto a racetrack to learn to drive at speed before venturing out into traffic? Hell no, you just jumped in with some awful advice from your father and learned as you went. Why should people do any different with bikes?

So unless you were one of those extremely lucky 10 year old boys who had the opportunity to ride dirt bikes when young, most folks are going to learn on the street as that is where they plan on riding.

[eon]

I’m not saying the track is easier, I’m saying it is different. I’m sure on the track you go balls out round these corners with the assumption there is no obstruction in your way. Take the exact same corner, exact same ashphalt and make it a street corner, would you still take it at the same speed? Of course not, it would be a suicidal move that would catch up with you one day.

[eon]

Obviously the flag men are there to warn you of obstructions/debris in the corner that you cannot see. On the street you have no such warning and really need to be able to stop in the distance you can see, which is why in 90% of corners my speed is set by how far I can see.

Blind corners on a track I am certain are a huge challenge of your skill and commitment; but it’s really not comparable to the street. Chalk and cheese I think.

[eon]

Are you asking if oil on a road has less traction than gravel? Most definitely I would say (though I’ve never tried riding on oil and hopefully never will). Gravel is really not a big problem if you take it easy as most roads are really just a light dusting of gravel over a hard surface. You bike will move around a lot but it still has a lot of traction and is not going down if you stay off the front brake. Now I’m not talking about whizzing round bends sliding the back tire out, I’m not that good a rider, but puttzing around at 10mph is no problem once you accept the bike is going to move around and not try and fight it.

If you hit deep gravel then the principles are the same but the feelings are more intense as there is nothing solid for the back wheel to grab. But I’ve ridden a road like that up a steep gradient with 180′ switchbacks. And one of my companions was riding a feet forward cruiser, with passenger and with gear for a weekend trip. He made it okay. It’s all just a learning experience

[eon]

Are those guys all on the same bike (or equivalent)? He was blasting past them like it was a video game where you have twice the power of your competitors, diving up the inside but you don’t slide off. Was kind of weird looking.

[eon]

Hope you have plenty of fun on it.

[eon]

It doesn’t seem like it has any protection qualities at all. I saw lots of references to “protection compartments” but no mention of actual armor. So you have then got to shell out for back, elbows and shoulder armor. And like JT, I wonder what poly/cotton actually is.

I would need a lot more info on this before I would consider buying it. I have my suspicions that Alpinestars puts out products at the cheaper end of the range and use their reputation and brand name to sell them. I’m sure it gets them greater sales but certainly makes me stop and think before buying their products.

[eon]

I don’t think anyone on here actually owns a Hyosung so we will not be able to comment on how it runs. There are question marks over its build quality and dealer support so know what you are getting yourself into if you get one.

[eon]

You did the right thing. Period. Barreling into a corner faster than you can see/stop might get the adrenalin going but it has nothing to do with skill. Assuming the conditions will remain constant throughout the bend is playing russian roulette IMO. I would say 90% of the time my corner speed is set by how far I can see, not how fast I think I can take the corner. After my one brief stint on the track (for a training class) I noticed afterward how many corners I could not see around on the street and my speed therefore had to be much slower. Pain the ass so I can certainly see the attraction of the track where you get to explore your limits more easily.

I look round the corner as far as I can see and set my speed based on that. If that vanishing point gets closer I slow down. If it moves away I speed up. I also hold an outside line till the corner opens up before heading for a late apex. Getting all this right is hard and is very satisfying when I do it well. As I get better at it my speed goes up but I left behind my “oh shit” moments a long time ago, which means I enjoy my rides more than ever.

[eon]

The Versys and VStrom have been on my candidate list for some time so I can comment on what I know about them (this is all 2nd hand knowledge though). Both are great bikes with glowing reviews and are frequently lumped together in the same category but in reality there are some differences. The Versys feels more like a sport bike (due to I believe the smaller front wheel) so it has sharper handling than the VStrom. But that larger front wheel gives the VStrom more of an edge if you ever want to go off road as you have more options to fit knobblies on the larger wheel. The VStrom is not exactly an off road bike but it excels as a long distance tourer. Both bikes can easily handle forest service roads due to the increased ground clearance but I would think twice before taking either off road.

If you look around you should be able to get a good deal on either bike from dealerships. Suzuki did not bring any new stock into the US in 2010 (but are bringing more in 2011) as dealers were struggling to get rid of 2009 stock. The Versys had a facelift and minor upgrades for 2010 which means you can get great deal on a 2009 model if you can find one.

Your other candidates look to be more in the sporty end of things so there are others who can comment on the relevant merits of those.

[eon]

#2: I assume you meant walking it down the hill with this technique? Hard to see how you could walk it up the hill. But like the others I struggle to see how this makes life easy but then again I have not tried it. I guess the ergonomics of the bike make a huge difference.

Assuming you have the space you might want to try a technique I was taught in dirt bike school. This is a technique to get your bike facing downhill after you have stalled it going up a steep hill and uses a combination of tricks already mentioned. Engine off, bike in gear and use the clutch as a brake (as in #2). Stand to the left of the bike with your hip against the seat (as in #1) to support it. Then, pulling in the clutch slightly roll the bike backwards (downhill) and rotate it around your hip. Should be easy enough to get it parallel to the slope of the hill at least. From there you should be able to ride off.

Might be worth trying. Like Rab I just cannot see how you can prevent it from tipping over using #2. Would love to see the video if you persevere with that strategy.

[eon]

What’s the MSRP on the Mana? It’s a popular upgrade among the scooter crowd and I remember folks talking about the screaming deals they were getting. Basically dealer cost from what I remember though I don’t remember what that was in dollars. This was a while back but the economy hasn’t exactly rebounded since then so you may be able to talk them down some more. Maybe.

[Author]

Posts