- This topic has 25 replies, 9 voices, and was last updated 13 years, 8 months ago by ranette.
Picking a bike, pt02
-
AuthorPosts
-
August 13, 2010 at 5:53 pm #28057ranetteParticipant
When people come on and advocate for a 250 as the only reasonable starter bike I won’t respond. I don’t particularly agree but I understand the sentiment. However, to argue for an SV650 and against a Shiver is a little different. The Shiver may be a little more powerful but essentially you are looking at two similar machines. Mid sized V twins with very linear throttle response. If you treat the throttle with the proper respect, which is vital on either an SV650 or a Shiver as a learner, I don’t think those extra horses will come into play. Granted if you get stupid the Aprillia will let you get a little stupider than the Suzuki. However, my guess is that running the Shiver in Rain mode would make it very similar in performance to an SV. Would it take it down to a 250 level? No. Will it make it shed 50 lbs or a few inches of seat height? Of course not and that’s why I won’t argue with anyone about starting on a 250. However, if you’re all right with an SV 650 I don’t think there’s enough difference from the Shiver, especially in the lowest performance mode, to recommend against it.
To the OP, if you could pick up a new Shiver for $6K I’d say jump on it. Then treat it with respect, it can kill you(but so can a Ninja 250) and take the time to learn to ride properly; learning doesn’t end with a passed BRC. If you drop it, pick it up, assess the damage knowing that’s the chance you took by buying a new Aprillia as your first bike.
August 13, 2010 at 6:21 pm #28058WeaponZeroParticipantThe SV650 straddles the line between what is and what isn’t considered a suitable beginner bike. Anything more, which the Shiver certainly is, brings it up to a level that, the way I see it, beginners shouldn’t be at. It may have linear power delivery but to say that it can be compared to the SV when it has over 30 extra horsepower and 20 ft. lbs of torque on tap is a bit much.
August 13, 2010 at 7:32 pm #28059ranetteParticipantWZ, neither of us probably truly understands how the Rain and Touring modes affect performance, which we probably should before we speak about the bike. From what I’ve heard it definitely makes the throttle more forgiving, but I have to admit I don’t have first hand knowledge. If you’re not a “250 only” guy, I think you’d have to admit that having the option to detune the bike’s performance with a switch is an excellent feature for a beginning rider. Of course the converse is true and the rider has the ability to retune the bike with that same switch.
I just can’t see too much difference in the two bikes when ridden at 0-75mph. Not denying that if you want to be an idiot the Ape will help you along in your stupidity more than the the Suzuki. However, riding along at 50mph and you hit a bump and blip the throttle the Shiver is not going to respond like an R1. With a twin, and the motor in the Shiver is very comparable to the motor in my bike, those extra 30 horses are there, but you have to go out and find them, rather than having them come up and bite you in the ass from a slightly misdirected input like would most likely happen on a liter sized I4.
Bottom line is I think it takes a rider with a mature approach to be able to start on either of the two bikes, however, anyone who successfully learned on an SV650 would probably not have had much of a different experience on a Shiver.
August 14, 2010 at 3:05 am #28067JtownJJAParticipantI think the 3,000 dollar difference makes the decision for me. Aprilia Shiver – 8,999 and SV650 – 5,999 (MSRP listed on their respective websites). If this is your first bike, you’re not certain that you’ll even like riding and want to stay with it yet. I wouldn’t want to end up a few months later realizing that I spent an extra 3,000 dollars and don’t like riding.
May I suggest that there are usually plenty of used SV650’s out there. What if you accidentally drop it and scratch it up? If it is used and already has a few dings and scratches, then no big deal.August 14, 2010 at 3:42 am #28068ranetteParticipantI can’t really speak for the OP but sometimes the pull towards a certain bike outweighs the cost difference; it did in my case. Most motorcycles are at least in some ways emotional purchases, all of us love to ride, most of us don’t need to ride. Every point you make is valid, you sound downright rational, but if you fall in love with a certain bike, like I did with mine, I was not going to let money, at least within reason, in my case around $2K, push me towards something that didn’t make me go wow every time I looked at it. Also the OP mentioned that he could get a new, at least I believe that it’s new or maybe a demo, Shiver for about $6K, a pretty smoking deal if you ask me. Keep in mind that it should hold it’s value over the years a little better than an SV so in this case maybe going Italian isn’t as expensive as it might seem at first glance.
August 15, 2010 at 1:37 am #28079plasticParticipantNo test on kawies or hondas (lame). Tested the aprilia mana, shiver and moto guzzi classic v7.
For the newbie here, guzzi was a bit tricky. Stalled 2x and shift to neutral instead of 2nd a few times. Rattles a lot. Clutch is very sensitive (eaarly release). Too bad. Bike looks great. (disclaimer; i had no trouble shifting or clutching with the 250cc virago)…
shiver (which is really 7k+fees and crap, so it was a bate and switch; real price at 9k) drives really nice with the fly by wire in touring or rain mode (touring a bit better). No troubles with the throttle on a quick test, clutch a bit harsh on my wek-ol wrists, but extremely forgiving gears. No trouble there.
Mana. Ah yes. Easy as riding a bike. Can see a bit of the point being made that can be deceptively dangerous. Only bike I had no (psychologycal) problem getting up to 35+ on the test tdrive, or punching in within blocks. Handles similar to the shiver. Weight not really an issue on either, actually couldn’t tell any significant difference in weight and balance wise between all the bikes above. Granted, top speed was 35 with mana, 30 with 250cc, shiver and guzzi, so there…
Right now, leaning towards the mana, even though it is the most expensive at 10k total (including taxes,etc). I was pretty close to pulling the trigger, but may wait and try to test drive a kawie or gladius… maybe…
August 15, 2010 at 1:50 am #28082eonParticipantWhat’s the MSRP on the Mana? It’s a popular upgrade among the scooter crowd and I remember folks talking about the screaming deals they were getting. Basically dealer cost from what I remember though I don’t remember what that was in dollars. This was a while back but the economy hasn’t exactly rebounded since then so you may be able to talk them down some more. Maybe.
August 15, 2010 at 2:24 pm #28089TrialsRiderParticipantMoto Guzzi is fitted with a dry clutch and the internal gears likely have a very large face dimension, which adds up to the rider needing to be very deliberate and positive when gear selecting. ( same goes for my BMW ) A brand new dry clutch also needs to be worn in slightly and applied with a little more finesse, there is a finer line between disengaged and fully engaged, because there is no oil that needs to be ‘squeezed out’ from between the clutch plates … It’s a learned thing. Both are items you would not normally find on the Japanese machines and likely why you found no problem shifting a little virago.
August 15, 2010 at 5:27 pm #28090plasticParticipantit lists at 10,600 new, gt abs. Used they are being listed for 7k and 8k plus fees (non-ABS models). I rides great.
August 16, 2010 at 4:34 pm #28098CBBaronParticipantGood points.
There is definately some piece of mind that comes with new and under warentee. And negotiating with a dealer is different than private party.However a low mileage late model bike has a fairly low risk and negotiating with a private party can often be easier. I’m a lousy negotiator and paid the craigslist asking price for my bike. However I still feel it was a great value and appearently the seller thought is was a fair price also.
Some might accuse me of being cheap at times which is why a small used Japanese bike was the best decision for me. When I started riding, I didn’t “know” if I was going really enjoy it and ride alot or if it would just be a short term hobby. Plus I didn’t “know” what kind of bike I wanted.
Starting with a cheap, low milage, recent model bike seemed like a good choice.So now I have very little invested in my bike, and I would not feel like it was a complete waste if I didn’t want to ride any more. And I didn’t drain my bank account or put myself in debt to get my first bike so I can change or add a bike that really moves me much easier.
If only i weren’t having so much fun on my cheap 250.
Craig
August 16, 2010 at 7:31 pm #28104ranetteParticipantJust goes to show there is no one stock answer for everybody. In my case, after a few weeks on my scooter I was pretty certain that two wheels were going to be a major part of my life for the foreseeable future and invested with that mindset. I can certainly understand those who might not be sure if riding is for them not wanting to go out and spend a chunk of change on a new bike.
-
AuthorPosts
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.