- This topic has 9 replies, 9 voices, and was last updated 13 years, 7 months ago by eon.
Countersteering and First Bike Jitters
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September 2, 2010 at 4:27 am #4219PinkEaglesParticipant
I took the BMC about a month and a half ago, had no problems, have my license, and am picking up my first bike in about a week. However, since it has been a bit of time and I have to drive the bike back to my house through either city streets or the highway I’m a little nervous. First question, does anyone have any words of advice?
Second, We talked about countersteering in the class, but it was never really stressed to apply it in the exercises. Instead the turns just came naturally as I moved into them. What I’m wondering is if the momentary turn of the wheel in the opposite direction of the turn is supposed to just happen naturally going into a turn or if it’s supposed to be thought about. I know this is kind of a complicated question, thank you for any help.
September 2, 2010 at 5:02 am #28404Gary856ParticipantIdeally, get the bike delivered to you, either by a truck, or by an experienced rider.
If you have to ride it home, avoid commute hours, and pick a time when traffic is light. My first street ride was late on a Sunday night, and the streets were almost deserted. Avoid the freeway for a while if possible.
Take your time, don’t hurry. If you need to slow way down to take a turn, slow way down. If you need to pull over to re-group yourself, do it slowly. If you’re so slow and becomes a traffic hazard, get off the road, but don’t hurry just because you’re embarrassed to hold up traffic. They’ll see that you’re a new rider and slow down.
If you keep thinking about countersteering, you’ll get a headache. I thought about it A LOT, and it only got my head spinning. Rather than the term “countersteering”, I prefer the term “push steering”, which is the same thing but more intuitive to me in describing what you “physically” do with the handlebar. If you want to turn right, turn your head to the right, look to the right (where you want to go), and push the right grip forward; the bike will start leaning to the right and turn right. If you want to left left, turn your head to the left, look to the left, and push the left grip forward; the bike will start leaning to the left and turn. It’s very important that you turn your head and look where you want to go, before starting the actual turn physically.
Remember to relax the hand/arm on the opposite side – don’t let your left hand fight with the right hand in a turn, which tend to nullify your steering input.
September 2, 2010 at 5:10 am #28405madjak30ParticipantTake ear plugs and wear them…it will dull the noise and make it easier to think about what you are doing…the wind noise in the helmet will be reduced, but you will be able to hear everything else more clearly…if the traffic is really busy when you pick up your bike, take the hiway and just ride at your pace in the slow lane…if you are really nervous, it may be a good idea to rent a trailer to take it home…
As for counter steering, it is best if you don’t try to think it through…like you said, turning will come naturally and when you are in the corner, take notice of which hand is pushing and you will see that you are already counter steering…if you want to steer faster you use counter steer…just don’t over think it.
The best advice is to relax, take a minute and plan your route home. Take the way of least traffic, since you will already be a little nervous. Before you ride off, practice some slow moves and practice braking. Learn how the bike reacts to you inputs…does it react really quickly, stopping immediately or turning quicker than you expect…you are better off to figure this out in the parking lot than in traffic. Ask someone to give you a ride down to pick it up, then get them to follow you home so that you don’t have to worry about someone honking at you from behind…
Good Luck!
September 2, 2010 at 8:35 am #28408eternal05ParticipantEar plugs are essential, both for the preservation of your hearing and for comfort while you’re riding, especially once you get going faster (e.g., highway speeds) and wind noise really picks up.
As far as thinking about countersteering actively, I would actually disagree with my fine colleague above and say that, yes, at least for a while, you should be thinking consciously about what your hands are doing. Do I think about it now? Absolutely not. But I don’t think about it the same way that I don’t think about slipping the clutch for a blipped downshift or squeezing on the brakes instinctively when I sense a hazard ahead. A more experienced rider doesn’t need to think about things that have been practiced to the point of turning into instinct.
The problem is that a lot of riders find that they don’t have to think about turns in the common case: nice, leisurely, large-radius turns that are anticipated well in advance. If they look where they want to go, the natural movement of their shoulders, head, and arms is enough to get the bike going where it needs to. Yet when, all of a sudden, they need to make a sudden knee-jerk reaction to, say, being cut-off in traffic, or being confronted by a deer running into the road, they find that they don’t actually know what input they make that turns the bike most quickly and efficiently. Countersteering is THE way to get the bike to change directions fast. Other techniques work, but in terms of the single most effective, most predictable, and most immediate technique, countersteering is the way to go.
Now I can understand saying that maybe while you’re riding, you shouldn’t be thinking about what you need to do and how it works because you’ll be too distracted to do it. I probably agree with that. However, I think that, especially if you feel like your recollection of beginner course material is a bit rusty, you should consider heading to the nearest parking lot to practice for at least a half hour before you ride the rest of the way home. While you’re in the parking lot, really concentrate on what Gary was saying: push right to go right, push left to go left. Focus on turning your head and pointing your eyes as far through every turn as you can (I mean, really crank your head around in turns). Learn how much force produces a given response at a given speed.
Pay your dues in a parking lot and with careful rides around town and you’ll be surprised by how quickly it all becomes second nature. Then again, until it is second nature, work hard to bring your skills up to the level you want.
September 2, 2010 at 5:04 pm #28422JackTradeParticipant(do this on a quiet street or parking lot at first, just in case)
As you’re moving in a straight line at a steady speed, just push a tiny tiny bit on a given handgrip. Not like you’re actually making a turn, just a tentative light push, less than 2mm or so. The bike will keep going straight, but you’ll feel it momentarily move in the predicted direction as well. Doing this gives you a real visceral sense of what countersteer really means.
I had the same issue when I started after I took the class (countersteer as more an academic thing than something I’d epxerienced), but after doing that a little, it made more sense, and gave me the confidence to really do it in turns.
September 2, 2010 at 6:14 pm #28426Gary856ParticipantWhen I said don’t think too much about countersteering, I meant not trying to figure out the “physics” behind it too much in the beginning; you can do it later when you want a brain teaser. Concentrate on the “action” – push the grip forward on the side you want to turn.
I really dislike the choice of word in “countersteering”. To me, this word describes more a concept than a physical action, and it can’t help but leads to a lot of unnecessary confusion on the physics behind it. If you tell a non-rider that you “countersteer” to turn, you’ll get a blank look. If you tell a non-rider that you “push the handgrip forward on the side you want the bike to turn”, that’s plain English description of a physical action that everyone understands.
“push steering” means the same thing as “countersteering”; they describe the same action using different words. “Push steering” is a direct-term, like saying, “do this”; “countersteerig” is an indirect-term, like saying, “do the opposite”. For most people a direct term is more intuitive, less confusing.
I hope I’m not making this more confusing…
September 2, 2010 at 9:09 pm #28430Jeff in KentuckyParticipantIf you rode a bicycle, you learned to countersteer. It is best to practice fast steering with a motorcycle in a parking lot, pretending there is an object to get around by braking first then making two quick turns around the imaginary object. You can push with one hand while pulling with the other hand.
September 4, 2010 at 12:19 am #28468owlieParticipantI still think alot about countersteering when I am riding. I actually go through the whole SLPR thing every time. Eventually it will become habit as Eon is talking about, but cornering for me has been a really difficult learning curve.
When I don’t think about it- as Eternal suggests- I start having real problems finding the right entry speed and keeping a decent line (not even good- just staying between the lines…).
Everyone’s experience is going to be different. If you find that you are continually entering corners too hot, or making the turns either too loose or too tight- or just scaring yourself- slow down and think about it step by step.
September 4, 2010 at 4:41 am #28469RabParticipantEmphasis on braking first, THEN swerving.
Don’t try to brake and swerve at the same time as you just don’t have enough traction on your two wheels to do that. If you attempt it, you will likely crash.
I personally wouldn’t push with one hand and pull with the other though as you may over-do it; pushing firmly on the bars in the direction you want to go should give you most control in making a quick turn (swerve).
Yes, bicycles also turn (at “speed”) by counter-steering but on those thin wheels, the counter-steering effort involved is so slight as to be almost imperceptible.
September 4, 2010 at 6:55 pm #28477eonParticipantFor a long time I entered corners too fast for my ability and scared myself countless times. Eventually (I’m a slow learner) I learned to not worry about my speed and to concentrate on picking the correct line with no to minimal steering corrections mid corner. Once you start doing that things get easier. It also allows you to have positive throttle input (not necessarily accelerating) and that REALLY makes a huge difference. If your off/on the throttle then the bike is wobbling all over the place as the weight shifts around. Constant throttle and the bike sits secure and everything is smooth. Can’t emphasize enough how much being smooth makes everything so much easier.
Next up I would work on getting your head leaned into the corner. “Kiss the mirror” is a phrase that sums up well what you are trying to do. The simple act of moving your head into the corner can have a big difference. Moving your butt to the inside makes a big difference as well but that is something I hold off attempting till you are comfortable doing the above. These techniques apply to all kind of bikes but are perhaps more necessary for cruisers as by design they have less lean angle available than sport bikes. All too often I see cruiser riders not move their body at all as they corner. Just a little body movement could mean they are not dragging hard parts.
Set your entry speed by looking as far round the corner as you can see (the vanishing point). You should be able to stop within that distance. By keeping an outside line you will be able to maximize how far round you can see.
If the vanishing point gets closer to you then the corner is tightening and you should slow down.
If the vanishing point gets further away then the corner is opening up and you can speed up.
Hold the outside line until the corner starts to open up fully and then head for a late apex.
MSF teaches you outside-inside-outside but you may want to change this in the real world. In S type curves you will want to do outside-inside as this will leave you on the outside for the next curve. You want to be planning where you want to be for the next curve while navigating the current one. Again, keeps things smooth and under control.All of the above info I’ve gleamed from training courses and instructional dvds. A lot of info above and it takes time to practice to make it 2nd nature. I would take it one step at a time as any time I change one aspect of my riding things go backward for awhile till I get the hang of it.
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