- This topic has 25 replies, 9 voices, and was last updated 13 years, 8 months ago by ranette.
Picking a bike, pt02
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August 10, 2010 at 4:01 pm #4165plasticParticipant
So finished the MSF and getting closer to the decision (had another post here).
Down to the following, open to sugestions;
bmw x-challenge 650, being is quite recommended for beginners
aprilia shiver 750 (would love to hear anyone who rode and sugestions)
suzuki gladius or sv
I posted earlier about the aprilia mana, due to the automatic (it’s actually one of the highest rated bike for safety in bikerz.com, even when compared to 250cc’s).
I am leaning more towards sports bike based on trying out the virago and the ninja 250 on the lessons. Clutch and break positions felt a bit awkward on the virago and overall riding on the ninja felt a bit better (granted, it was very brief riding and I’m anewbie and all).
I guess mainly I would love to hear anyone who actually rode on the bikes above and sugestions.
Thanks in advance for any advice!
August 10, 2010 at 4:25 pm #28016AParticipantI started riding on a 99 BMW F650 and many other BMW motos, currently I have a Gladius and a 2002 SV650S among others.
I used to own a 2003 Aprlia Tuono, the lack of dealer support and parts availability were the main reasons that I won’t have another Aprilia until another dealer is within (1 hr. ride) 50 miles of me.
BMW made decent motos, until recently with all the electronics and BMW specific tool required to work on thir motos. All BMW parts seem to carry a premium pricing, even small nuts & bolts, oil/filters.. I wouldn’t get a BMW if this is going to be our first moto and you might want to upgrade in a year or so, but if you want to keep it for 4-5 years, they keep their value pretty well.
IMO, Gladius and SV haveone of the best engine on modern motorcycles. Gladius have nice fuel injection that has been sorted out from the second generation SVs, very neutral riding position, excelent tires and handling.. only drawback I can think of is the seat comfort.. but that varies from rider to rider. My Gladius is available for sale, PM me if you might be interested.
I like the old tech, 2002 SV650S has carbs, something I can work on with my own hands to fix. Right now my SV650s is very well tuned, gets very great fuel mileage, very entertaining on spirited rides, cheap to maintain & insure..
August 12, 2010 at 3:26 pm #28033WeaponZeroParticipantHow safe a bike is rated has absolutely nothing to do with how beginner-friendly it is. Two completely different things. The Aprilia Mana would be a bad idea for a first bike I think because of the weight, power, and the fact that the aftermarket/dealer network isn’t quite on par with that of the Japanese. IMO for a first bike stick with a reliable Japanese bike that has tons of aftermarket and dealer support, is under 600cc if a 4cyl or 650 if a twin, and is as light as can be.
August 12, 2010 at 4:06 pm #28035plasticParticipantIt is 750, but has the fly by wire technology to control trottle. Seems light enough. Naked. I have 2 dealers within 15 minutes. No aftermarket, but after my “entry costs; (bike/equip) I probably won’t be looking to spend money anytime soon.
On a side note, how does the extra 100′ affects riding? Are you talking specifically on lower speeds? Or overall?
August 12, 2010 at 4:22 pm #28036WeaponZeroParticipantYou seem awfully set on buying a high-end Italian motorcycle for your first bike as something to learn on. Mind if I ask why?
Basically as a new rider one of the biggest things you learn is throttle control. Until you get a good feel for exactly how sensitive it is and how to control it, you DON’T want too much power. At 95 rated horsepower and 59 ft. lbs of torque, the Shiver definitely falls into the “too much power!” category.
August 12, 2010 at 5:42 pm #28038briderdtParticipantBoth those Aprillia’s are automatics. I’m thinking that’s why he’s looking at those in particular. In any case, though, the weight of those bikes is going to be an issue on the learning curve. And from when I sat on them some time back, the seat height is pretty high (compared to my SV650s).
August 12, 2010 at 5:43 pm #28039WeaponZeroParticipantAutomatic sportbike sounds scary to me. Wouldn’t want it shifting on me mid-lean. That would certainly be a hair-raising experience.
August 12, 2010 at 6:27 pm #28040TrialsRiderParticipantlol, automatic would also detract from engine braking on an icy road surface
August 12, 2010 at 9:45 pm #28041AParticipantI have test ridden a Mana a few months back, I can see how an automatic motorcycle would be usful for al levels of riding, there is not lack of engine brake when you need it.
Last week, I rode a friend’s Burgman 650 exe scooter, two up, in city streets and highways around Philly. For a 650cc engine it’s got plenty of get up and go, even with two full adults, each under 200 lb., 85 mph on highways is rock solid, parking lot low speed is very stable since the weight of the scoot is down very low. Push button shifting is fun if you really want to rev up the engine before shifting, shifting is very smooth even at high rpm. Electric windshield & mirrors that are adjustable on the fly, backrests for rider & passenger, along with plenty of underseat storage. I’m thinking of trading in my two-up ride for a Burgman 650.
August 12, 2010 at 10:13 pm #28042eonParticipantbut it does have “fly-by-wire” controls so it has computer overrides to alter the power delivery. Still not what I would call a good first bike as from the reviews it seems like a spirited bike, even in Rain mode.
But what is exotic in some locations is no big deal in others. Here in Seattle we are very lucky to have Ducati, Aprilia and Guzzi dealers all within a 5 mile radius.
August 13, 2010 at 2:19 am #28043TrialsRiderParticipantIMO a true beginner bike should weigh less than half the weight of any of these bikes, but I can see the attraction to the Shiver as it ( almost ) has, all the right stuff. Good handlebar stance, great lighting, hydraulic clutch, etc. very, very sweet bike. Wish I could offer more first hand experience with the Italian bikes.
‘Rain mode’ relates to an on the fly fuel injection MAPI adjustment, more than the fly by wire feature, I’ve seen it in use by world class, factory sponsored Trials riders on the Montesa 4RT for several years now and it is a credit to Aprilia to include that feature on a production motorcycle. The concept is they ‘retard’ the timing ( very slightly ) and correspondingly adjust the fuel delivery to ‘flatten’ the powerband ( or the opposite for the go fast setting ), so I can see how Aprilia would imply this makes the bike better suited to beginners. Shiver weighs roughly the same as the 650 Kawasaki, so if that bike is truly suitable for a beginner, I see how the Shiver can legitimize the same claim.
USD ( upside down ) forks and the non-linkage rear suspension are not my favorite designs. Aprilia was coincidently one of first to apply the USD forks on their Trials bike back in 1989, they proved less than satisfactory for Trials application. I recall the complaints being; too hard to keep the oil in and the large diameter top tubes restricted the lock to lock turning range needed for Trials. …also heard rumors the design was more prone to catastrophic failure of either the triple tree or lower castings, relative to a conventional fork design.
A, I was just kidding with the icy road comment, but you do have really nice legs
August 13, 2010 at 1:20 pm #28045CBBaronParticipantI wouldn’t want one of those bikes for a first bike for the same reason I wouldn’t want a new bike for a first bike.
As a beginner you are likely to drop the bike. Not necessarily a crash but a low speed drop in the parking lot, or road shoulder, etc… Those European bikes are very nice, and very well built but also much more expensive. And repairs will be more expensive.
Why not get a cheap, light, used, 250cc class motorcycle? Easier to learn on. Cheap to buy, and cheap to fix if you do drop it. If after some experience you want an Aprilla or BMW you can sell the small bike for little loss and you get the new bike with much more riding experience and hopefully better skills.Craig
August 13, 2010 at 3:18 pm #28044ranetteParticipantI’m not advocating for or against any particular bike(though I came this close to buying a Shiver) or the accepted wisdom of smaller is better to start. However I would disagree with “used is always better to start” and “Japanese is always better to start”.
I personally am not a mechanic and don’t have the time at this point in my life to learn. I realize that a well maintained, mechanic inspected, used bike should be reliable, but in my book there is nothing like a brand new WARRANTIED new bike. More importantly there are few things I hate more than negotiating the sale of a used vehicle. Don’t know why, but I hate it, and it’s one of the reasons that I lease all of my cars. The thought of buying and selling a bike in a few months time seems rather painful to me. I preferred to take the risk of a low speed drop and any resulting scratches in exchange for owning a new bike. Not saying this is the right move for everyone, but it was for me, meaning it might be right for some others.
As for Japanese only, there are plenty of places with excellent, well stocked, dealerships of all makes and models, Asian, European and American. The Big 4 might be the biggest, but that doesn’t mean their bikes speak to all of us.
August 13, 2010 at 4:06 pm #28048plasticParticipantA lot of good info. My main reasons for picking the shiver are;
-sitting position feels good, pedals on right places.
-fly by wire to help control the throttle (if it works).
-very similar to the sv and gladius (which seem to be highly recommended for beginners), but a bit nicer.
-price wise, a dealer near me has a2009 one for 6k, which is pretty good. Other dealer has them around 7.5. Hard to find them used.
-Pretty much same weight as the sv’s or other similar 600cc bikesI did consider that it may be a bit high, etc, but it seems a consensus that people that buy 250cc bikes trade up quickly. The loss in value on a trade would be equivalent to fixing the bike after a drop (unless it’s a major crash, but in that case the 250cc value drop would be equivalent as well).
So I’m trying to find a nice middle ground on a bike I could start up and keep and enjoy for a bit. The mana was in the running, but that one is indeed very expensive for a first bike.
I do worry a bit about parts and all, but being I’m planning on using it just for weekend / fun rides, it would not kill me to have to wait a few weeks.
On a side note how about the honda shadow? Any one likes that (is the only cruisier that feels “right” to me as far as position, not riding)
As for the
August 13, 2010 at 4:33 pm #28049WeaponZeroParticipantThe Honda Shadow is an excellent choice for a beginner cruiser rider. You could go smaller with a 500 or a 250 cruiser sure, but for a cruiser a 750 is also within the realm of realism.
My main reason for trying to discourage you from buying the Shiver is that it’s an awful lot of power for a beginner bike, only a small step below full-fledged racebikes. Yes the V-twin layout means the power comes on in a more manageable delivery, but it’s still insanely powerful for anything a beginner should be on, being just shy of the 100 horsepower mark. The SV650 would be a much better choice and you are not likely to get tired of it anytime soon.
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