[Matt]

Versys vs 650R is the same as SV vs DL.
Versys uses many of the same parts, with a similar engine, as the 650R, just as the DL and SV share.

Versys is often said to be the better of the two between it and the 650R. The SV is often called the better of the two between it and the DL. In the Versys’ case it is because the Versys has more upscale suspension than the 650R. In the case of the SV, I think a lot of it has to do with the looks of the DL and the top heaviness.

All four are good bikes.
Between the Versys and the DL, the versys is a newer design, and more road oriented. It is more sporty, with more road biased tires and suspension. It’ll still handle dirt roads, just not *as* well. Nor does it have as large a gas tank, and stock I believe it has less wind protection.
As a light weight touring bike the versys is pretty darned good (see webbikeworld’s versys project).

All four bikes have hard luggage options, and I see lots of 650Rs, Versys, and DLs loaded up. Don’t notice many SVers doing the long distance thing, but that could simply be a reflection of the local riders and the forums I visit. Haven’t heard any reason why the bike wouldn’t be as good for it as the 650R.

If dirt roads are in your planning, I’d stay away from the Honda VFR (Interceptor) unless it really turns your crank. It’ll handle dirt roads, but not as confidently as a bike meant to visit them. Ditto for a BMW F800ST.

BMW F800GS is offroad overkill for most. Most people who buy them could get by just fine on the less expensive more road biased F650GS. I’ve ridden one of these and it is a nice bike. Far faster than you’ll need on the road. Reviews say it’ll keep up with the supersport badboys on the twisties, and I don’t doubt it.
Never having ridden a Versys (just sat on one), I tend to think of the F650GS as an upscale Versys. The versys can do everything the bimmer can 95% as well, but it doesn’t have the feeling of “premium” that the bimmer has.

Just my opinions – Remember, I’ve only ridden one of these bikes!
I’ve been looking into the category a fair bit, since I see my future bike being something akin to a DL or Versys…

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“The two seconds between ‘Oh S**!’ and the crash isn’t a lot of practice time.”

[Matt]

DL650 V-Strom (aka Wee Strom) is a sibling to the SV650, but with a very different role.

It is an adventure touring bike. It sits perfectly upright with plenty of wind protection, and dirt capable suspenion and tires. It is meant for touring about and travelling down the roads less travelled. It is tall and very top heavy (it has a 5.5gal gas tank!).
The engine is also detuned for a less stressed engine to prolong life in rougher riding conditions.

The SV650 is much lower and much sportier. It is the “civilized” of the two. If you plan on spending time on dirt roads, the Strom is the a good bike. If you never plan on seeing dirt, then you’ll want to swap out the stock tires right away.

If you are interested in a canyon carver, or other fun bike without much plans for exploring (either long distance on the roads, or just down the little town side roads that inevitably turn to dirt) the SV650 is the bike designed for you. If long distances (as in multi-day trips) or adventures away from perfectly smooth asphalt and clear cellphone reception is your plan, the V-Strom is probably a better choice.

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“The two seconds between ‘Oh S**!’ and the crash isn’t a lot of practice time.”

[Matt]

The distance, yes teh bike can do it, but not comfortably at that speed (if the Rebel 250 is any indication).

I wouldn’t plan on sustained speeds about 65mph. And to be honest, you’ll probably not enjoy a trip at those speeds on the interstate for long periods. If you can take local highways the whole way home at 60mph you’ll enjoy yourself a lot more (to say nothing of the savings in gas).

And Six-shooter is right on the money when it comes to how long you will last. Motorcycles are far draining. I’m still at the stage where a 200mile day leaves me utterly spent. I always plan my rides thinking it is like spending that time in a car, but it isn’t. You are on alert the whole time, and that just drains you.

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“The two seconds between ‘Oh S**!’ and the crash isn’t a lot of practice time.”

[Matt]

Also:

Buell blast has a 25″ lowered seat option. That puts it lower than some cruisers.

If you like cruisers, then pretty much they all will have low enough seat heights for you (or have lowered seats available), and their centre of gravity is so low that they are uber easy to keep up.

A buddy of mine has the new Ninja 250 and is roughly your height, he has no problem sitting on it.

Really, there are a lot of options for smaller riders when starting out.
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“The two seconds between ‘Oh S**!’ and the crash isn’t a lot of practice time.”

[Matt]

“2. You begin to get bored with the power given by the 2 valve per cylinder air cooled engine after you learn the fundamentals of riding on the street and realize you want either:”

Thank you for reiterating that grande old lye about out growing motorcycles.
Let’s just replace “2 valve per cylinder air cooled engine” with “250cc engine”.

There are a lot of people, serious riders, who really like the old 2 valve air cooled Ducks. They are very easy to work on and have been known to last a very long time in sport-touring applications. The engine has a great deal of personality. No, the Monster is not the fastest bike in its class, but since most riders don’t push their bikes to the 9/10ths on the street, a surprising number of riders are happy with their 600 and 620 Monsters.

Which is all moot, since the 696 makes 80hp now, which is more than the SV650 (sport or naked).

Now, will someone want to upgrade after a couple of years? Most likely yes. That is simply the way of motorcyclists; most change bikes every three years or so, and almost no one keeps their first bike for a long time (even if they tend to hold on to their bikes for very long periods of time afterwards).

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“The two seconds between ‘Oh S**!’ and the crash isn’t a lot of practice time.”

[Matt]

Drop the clutch while holding the throttle and if you fall off the back and get pulled by the bike, trying to hold on to the throttle – your little ninja will do pretty much the same thing. Granted, it takes a lot more to fall of the back of a ninja (but it looked to me like the guy wasn’t doing anything with his legs to hold onto the bike…)

I just couldn’t believe his “friends” laughing at him “You’re okay, you’re okay, you’ve just got a little road rash”. Gah, not people I ever want to ride in the same area as, let alone call “friends”.

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“The two seconds between ‘Oh S**!’ and the crash isn’t a lot of practice time.”

[Matt]

Don’t outright discount a Ninja 250 before you sit on one, they are surprisingly roomy (says someone 6′ even). Buell Blast with full height seat as well (if you want the sport-standard type bike as opposed to cruiser).

Any 250cc Dual-sport will fit you.

Height is your only issue; I’m heavier than you (not by much) and even a :lowly” Rebel 250 will get me up to speed faster than traffic.

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“The two seconds between ‘Oh S**!’ and the crash isn’t a lot of practice time.”

[Matt]

Yea, I was thinking Versys / Wee Strom might work as well. I’ve sat on the Versys, and it is a VERY upright position. I’m 6 foot and my legs are pretty straight. There is a lot of space for a longer leg to bend.

But really, the KLR with STIFF suspension and a cutom seat (since the stoke isn’t very comfortable) is going to be his best bet. When he sits on it with the stock suspension it’ll sag A LOT more than it would with properly setup suspension.

I’m betting the only reason he found the GS “tolerable” was because of sag. If the suspension was set to “two up” it’d probably give him an extra half inch or more of leg room (doesn’t sound like much, but a few degrees in the knees can make all the difference in the world).
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“The two seconds between ‘Oh S**!’ and the crash isn’t a lot of practice time.”

[Matt]

Any bike he gets WILL need suspension upgrades. Stock springs are set for somone 160ish pounds.

A KLR/DR650/DR400, etc has the power to support that mass. It will be long enough in the leg for him, though he might want to look into a custom seat. From what I understand, power is easy to manage so long as he is light with the clutch (lots of power at the bottom revs)

Sportster 883 is an option. Very standard seating, with the option of highway pegs up front to let him stretch. Again, enough power to support his weight.

But seriously, a Dual Sport with upgraded suspension. I’d look at the mods long distance guys do to thier KLRs to handle the extra weight of their gear, because I’m pretty sure many of them end up going over the original weight limit.

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“The two seconds between ‘Oh S**!’ and the crash isn’t a lot of practice time.”

[Matt]

Weapon, Spaz isn’t arguing with you about manners of the bike, he’s arguing simply about the sheer weight of the bike.

I can say from personal experience that the difference in confidence between a 325 pound bike versus a well balanced 415 pound bike is still significant. The difference between a 415 pound bike and a 450 pound bike is also significant. With a full tank of gas the Katana (and GSX650) is a handleful a slow speeds and pushing around / putting on its stand. Twice I almost dropped my 415pound bike but was just able to recover it. My dad HAS dropped his 425 pound bike because it got over too far (at a stand still) when he wasn’t paying attention. I have never had that problem with my ZZR-250, it can get leaned out very far with me on the other side, and I never feel like I’m going to drop it. This has a huge impact on general comfort with the bike.

And don’t kid yourself about the weight being for stability. The Kat is a pig because it was designed in the 80s, when all sport bikes weighed that much. Making a steel frame stiff with 80s metalurgy means weight. A lot more weight than a current aluminum frame (and that massive 5 gallons of fuel, up high does nothing good for low speed balance). The GSX650 is still that heavy because steel is cheaper to buy and work with than aluminum. They could have saved a fair chunk of weight by doing a full redesign of the frame, but they didn’t have to because the GSX650 is, as you said, an affordable sport tourer.

I’ve spoken with a late model Kat 600 owner. He LOVES his bike. It is fast and comfy. It’ll keep up with his buddies on CBRs and he can tour with his Dad on a Goldwing. But he spent the first few years riding a GS500, and he wouldn’t have done it any other way.

As always, you can learn on any bike, but not all bikes are friendly to new riders.

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“The two seconds between ‘Oh S**!’ and the crash isn’t a lot of practice time.”

[Matt]

Old gas like that can gum up the carbs, if you have the option run a tank or two of 5-10% ethanol gasoline (depending on where you live, “winter gas”, E10, or “ethanol” – just check to make sure it is NOT more than 10% ethanol, as that will do damage to the fuel system – highly corrosive stuff ethanol). It does an amazing job of cleaning out the fuel system.

Also, with it sitting that long, I’d look inside the tank for rust. It may need to be cleaned and resealed (a few hundred dollar job, but waaay better than having it rust through!).

I’ve got to say, I’m a little jealous, I’d happily plunk $650 down on a GPZ305 if one in good shape ever came up around here…

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“The two seconds between ‘Oh S**!’ and the crash isn’t a lot of practice time.”

[Matt]

Fairing or naked?

If you have a fairing, mount it to the inside of the fairing, ensuring you’ve got enough space between the fairing and any hot parts (Rad, Rad hose, engine, exhaust). Otherwise, try and find a section of frame away from the exhaust (on a dual exhaust bike, there is usually a section of frame just behind the engine that is twin spar where you could mount the lights “inside” away from the exhausts. Not sure how you’ll route electrical though.

Hint: Stuff like that is very much a matter of personal taste on a bike, it will most likely lower the resale value of the bike. I’m not saying don’t do it, I’m saying remember to take it off before you sell the bike (if you ever do)

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“The two seconds between ‘Oh S**!’ and the crash isn’t a lot of practice time.”

[Matt]

Don’t take it to a dealership, chances are half the guys there were still riding their Big Wheel trikes when that bike was common, a number of standard practices have changed since then, and treating it like a current bike will only turn it into so much scrap metal. (can you tell I’m bitter?)

The best thing to do is find an independant mechanic who specializes in older bikes, failing that, just an independant mechanic (since he’s less likely to see the newer models that are still going to dealerships for service, most his time will be spent on bikes on older bikes anyways). If you have a local forum, I’d ask on there where people like to take their older bikes.

If you’ve got no other choice, bring it to a kawi dealer and ask specifically that the mechanic most experienced with older bikes deal with it.

Of course, if you can absorb the $650, one option is to view it as a learning experience to do a lot of bike work yourself. Get a clymer’s manual for it, put the salvage yard on speed dial, and dive in. If I had the time and space, I’d love to do exactly that with an old air cooled twin.

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“The two seconds between ‘Oh S**!’ and the crash isn’t a lot of practice time.”

[Matt]

The LTD series is a semi-cruiser. Half way between a standard and a custom (what we now call cruisers), much like the Maxim and Sabre of the time.

That said, the engine was also used in the GPZ305 which was supposed to be a really sweet little bike. Visually more of a standard than the Ninja 250 of the time, but with very similar riding and performance.

Being a naked parrallel twin it’ll be fairly easy to work on when work needs to be done, but parts will be hard to find. I’d make sure you have a bike salvage yard within driving distance and phone them to ask if they have any 305s in their yard.

One important detail about the GPZ305 was that it had a particular piece on it (a gear, but I forget for what) that was made of nylon. I’m not sure why they were nylon instead of steel or brass, but they tended to wear out quickly if the bike was ridden hard (less than 10 000 miles!). They are easy to replace, but getting a replacement is pretty hard these days. some people have had luck replacing the gear with a custom made brass one.

Search around the net for talk about the kawi 305. As commuter bikes the GPZ was supposed to be a blast. I think if you are willing to put in the effort, the LTD could be a good bike if the price is right.

Tires will at least be cheap since they’ll be smaller bias-ply. There are lots of companies still making tires specifically for older bikes like this.

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“The two seconds between ‘Oh S**!’ and the crash isn’t a lot of practice time.”

[Matt]

So long as your combined weight is under 330 (or whatever the legal load limit on the 08 is, I’m not 100% sure) you’ll be fine. Yes, you’ll need to gas it more, and yes you won’t want to take corners as fast, but people do it just fine.

The one thing to watch out for, if you are new to motorcycling is that motorcycles handle differently with a second person on the back. You are used to how much you need to lean / shift weight but with extra mass that you aren’t in control of bike control becomes harder. Plus stopping distances increase, etc etc.

Because the bike handles differently, most people say you need a fair amount of experience riding bikes before you take on a passenger (at least one year or 10k) and a good amount of experience on your own bike to know how it handles (3k miles).

Good reading on the subject of two up riding (for both rider and passenger):
http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/escape/tourtechntips/122_0010_two_up_riding/index.html
http://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/streetsurvival/riding_with_passenger/index.html
http://www.her-motorcycle.com/Riding-2-up.html

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“The two seconds between ‘Oh S**!’ and the crash isn’t a lot of practice time.”

[Author]

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