[Matt]

Haha awesome

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“The two seconds between ‘Oh S**!’ and the crash isn’t a lot of practice time.”

[Matt]

Part of the reason for so few 250s on display is that, well, none of the dealers have any left.

This season small motorcycle sales (650 and below, not including supersport) has seen a massive jump in sales. But no one really expected it. Everyone knew gas prices were up a bit, so there ordered a few more 250s and usually a bunch more scooters. And the buying public just cleaned them all out.

Gas prices brought in a lot of customers who would otherwise not have had the push to get on a bike. The dealerships didn’t really catch on to this early enough I think. I think in too many cases people were tagged as “window shoppers / day dreamers” only to be serious shoppers who didn’t know how to start. I expect a lot of specialty shops that deal with customers who don’t consider themselves “bikers” (Around here, the Hyosung and Vespa dealer) did very well at picking up these disenfranchised shoppers.

But I think the new Ninja 250 should get a lot of the blame/praise as well. It showed people that a 250cc bike could be cool. In doing so, it raised the image of all 250s. People could look at the Ninja and go “Man, that’s a cool little bike. It gets great mileage and I won’t kill myself on it – too bad I’m really a cruiser guy/gal” which led them to look at bikes like the Rebel and V-Star 250 which they otherwise would have completely ignored for the bigger “day dream” bikes.

Expect to see a lot more 250s on the floor this fall as 2009 orders start arriving. But in particular keep an eye out at the dealer floors next spring. I bet you’ll see a lot more of the smaller bikes front and centre to attract the window shoppers, and the day-dreamer/enthusiast bikes will be slightly further back in the shop.

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“The two seconds between ‘Oh S**!’ and the crash isn’t a lot of practice time.”

[Matt]

As a bike to learn on, imo you absolutely want a bike without ABS. You want to know, at the muscle-memory level how to threshold brake. If you don’t, then you are essentially limiting yourself to ABS equiped bikes from then on. Sure you could buy a non-abs bike and learn threshold braking in a parking lot, but taking a test spin on a friends bike? Not a good idea if your emergency-reaction reflexes are based on an ABS bike.

Also – if you do any offroading (not an issue since you are looking into an SV650), understand that ABS is a BAD thing.
ABS dramatically increased stopping distance on loose surfaces (such as dirt, gravel, and snow). On those surfaces, a surprising amount of the stopping power is actually coming about from the material building up infront of your wheel. This can’t happed on an ABS equiped vehicle. That is why ABS equiped dual sports (like the BMW GS) has a switch to turn ABS off.

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“The two seconds between ‘Oh S**!’ and the crash isn’t a lot of practice time.”

[Matt]

F650GS is a very tall bike, very upright seating. But it can be lowered with seat and linkage options.
Nice bike. I think of it as a “premium” Versys. (Though I haven’t ridden the versys).

Unless you plan on taking the bike off road, the F800GS is a poor choice. Costs more than the 650, and hte price really only gets you more off road goodies. In fact, the one guy I know who bought a 800GS had to change the tires on it right away, because the stock tires aren’t very smooth on pavement.

The F800ST would be a better bike for road use than the 800GS. But it is more cramped than the F650 (and considerably more expensive). If you are considering the ST, take the 650GS for a test drive as well – it could surprise you.

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“The two seconds between ‘Oh S**!’ and the crash isn’t a lot of practice time.”

[Matt]

I made a very conscious decision, I would not go into debt for a toy. I took my “monthly payment” for a bike and put it into a savings account. Now my bike causes me no stress because I never fear payments or look at what else it is costing me.

Owning a motorcycle is a great feeling. But the day I got debt free… even better.

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“The two seconds between ‘Oh S**!’ and the crash isn’t a lot of practice time.”

[Matt]

The question of “Loud pipes save lives” is a highly debated subject. I suggest reading up on it to find where you stand. My opinion on it is that loud pipes are only loud behind you, and to a lesser degreee to the sides. The biggest danger you have are cars ahead of you. I don’t feel the negative image the pipes project to be worth the (imo) questionable increase in safety. Obviously others disagree. As I said, highly debated subject.

Now, moving away from that debate. Baffel-less exhausts are called “straight pipes” (as the air travels straight out of the engine into the world, without hitting anything to muffle it). Straight pipes on larger bikes are extremely loud. Often above the legal limit for a big cruiser. I don’t expect your 250 will reach those levels, but still, many areas have laws prohibiting the modification of an exhaust system.

You can replace it with an aftermarket one, you just can’t gut it and pretend it is stock.

Aftermarket systems also have two other benefits: They are designed to produce a particular sound. Chances are, the 250 will not produce a the nicest sound with straight pipes. This is an entirely personal thing. So make suer whatever pipes you put on (or just straight piping it if that is your choice) sounds the way you want the bike to sound.
Many companies have mp3s on their web sites of what a particular installation sounds like.

The second benefit of a baffelled exhaust is back pressure. Engines operating at lower RPM actually benefit from some back pressure in the exhaust to produce better torque.
If you get an aftermarket exhaust you won’t lose any noticible amound of low end torque, and on the 250s, we don’t have much of that to give up.

Hope this helps.

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“The two seconds between ‘Oh S**!’ and the crash isn’t a lot of practice time.”

[Matt]

I don’t believe so.

Mufflers and air intakes have more to do with engine noise than the cooling type.

Lots of loud engines happen to be air cooled (Harelys, a particular Ducati Monster). But I think that is more a matter of the owners want. For the owners of those bikes, the sound is a big part of the experience. You don’t sit on either bike hoping for a silent smooth ride.

But then, the scream of a water cooled litre sport bike racing down the freeway isn’t what one would call sedate either.

The Shadow VLX 600 is a water cooled twin, and purrs very quietly. I’m trying to think of a modern air cooled engine that is as quiet, and I can’t. I think the reason is again about emotional experience, the bikes that still use air cooling are high in “personality”. I’m sure they exist though.

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“The two seconds between ‘Oh S**!’ and the crash isn’t a lot of practice time.”

[Matt]

Both are reliable systems. The quality difference is entirely between specific bikes and engines. The overall design of an air cooled engine is just as “good” as a liquid cooled (not that many high end makes such as Ducati still use air cooled engines in many of their machines).

As a beginner, the performance limit of either engine is way above what you’ll need. In fact, it is above what you could ever expect to make use of on the roads. At the top performance tier, liquid cooled is the way to go for sure. If is needed to ensure long life of a really tight tolerance high revving engine. But for long life of more regular ride, well both Harley and BMW have made air cooled bikes that have lasted a long long time.

Air cooled engines are great in fall or cooler riding, but they are (I find) uncomfortable in stop and go traffic, or for the first few minutes after getting off of a freeway. In both situations the engine radiates a lot of heat on to your leg. Again, there are times when that is welcome, if you’re stuck in traffic on a hot day, not so much.
This is purely personal preference. My Dad owns an aircooled bike and prefers it. The heat on his leg never bothers him.

If you work on the bike yourself, the air cooled is MUCH easier to work on. Even if you don’t wrench yourself, the air cooled is cheaper (on average, again specific bikes make all the difference) to maintain. Not having a radiator, coolant fluid, hoses, and waterpump make a big difference in the complexity of the engine.

Hope that helps
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“The two seconds between ‘Oh S**!’ and the crash isn’t a lot of practice time.”

[Matt]

Scion is Toyota (it is their youth brand, just as Lexus is their luxury brand).

Daewoo is Korean, went bust, and was bought by GM. Many GM cars are Daewoos (notibly, the least reliable GM cars).
The Aveo/Swift+ is Daewoo, the Epica and Optima as well.

There is a Hyosung dealer around here, I keep meaning to ask their service guys what they Hyosungs are like compared to the other makes they sell (Aprila, Guzzi, and Victory).

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“The two seconds between ‘Oh S**!’ and the crash isn’t a lot of practice time.”

[Matt]

No offense, but:
“It could simply be so you have a bike that will keep pace with them” = Worst reason to buy a bike. Ride your own ride, Period.

The instant you try to keep up with someone is the instant you start making judgement mistakes about cornering speed.
If you are just starting out, the last thing you should be thinking about is keeping up with your buddies.

If you try to go the long distances your buddies do, even on a bike that does it “better” than a smaller bike, you are asking for trouble. You will get mentally and physically worn on (on any bike) before your buddies do. Then you are far from home and tired, which means mistakes.

Even on distance trips, you have to learn your limits (and build them up) on your own.

Someone just getting into distance running does not just join an accomplished marathoner for a jog expecting to keep up with them.

Ride your own ride.

As a helpful suggestion (just so I don’t come across as totally negative):
If you have sport riding buddies, join them for part of a trip. Ride an easier section and ask them to ride it at a sedate (legal) pace. You get to ride with them, you get to set your own pace, and when your bit is done, they get to have enjoyed your company and then resume blasting the back roads.

If your friends are distance riders, join them for the initial hour or so of their trip. In many accomplished sport-touring groups (example: canyonchasers.net) this is extremely common. There will be only a handful of riders doing a full multi-day trip, but each day (or half day) they will meet and join up with some locals.

As RT says, chose the bike that is right for you, not for your friends.

And I’m going to point out that at 6’0″ 185#, you aren’t a little guy, but you aren’t especially tall either. You should find most bikes fit you reasonably well. I’m almost identical proportions and very few bikes I’ve sat on felt cramped (Honda Rebel being the only one)
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“The two seconds between ‘Oh S**!’ and the crash isn’t a lot of practice time.”

[Matt]

Having sat on a 600cc machine, the Ninja 250 has more leg room than it (and the one I sat on, a ZZR-600 is supposedly the most comfortable of the bunch)
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“The two seconds between ‘Oh S**!’ and the crash isn’t a lot of practice time.”

[Matt]

I am 6’0″ and 185 pounds.
My ZZR-250 (a ninja 250 by any other name) easily does more than 80mph with me on it. I always out accelerate traffic.

Don’t listen to anyone who says you NEED 600cc they don’t know what they are talking about. Most likely they’ve never ridden a 250R and are just parroting what everyone else says. I have yet to meet someone who has ridden a ninja 250 for a full day and still claims it isn’t powerful enough.

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“The two seconds between ‘Oh S**!’ and the crash isn’t a lot of practice time.”

[Matt]

Any of the 200cc+ bikes.

Seriously, they’ll all do 60mph with you on board.

The only one I would avoid is the TW220 “Big Wheel”. It has what looks like an ATV wheel on the back, and it is really meant as a farm/utility bike. It is not a happy camper above 55mph on the road.

Other than that, go with the one you like best
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“The two seconds between ‘Oh S**!’ and the crash isn’t a lot of practice time.”

[Matt]

Okay, let me change part of my statement – not ALL dual-sports are easy to handle machines.

KTMs are hardcore bikes, they don’t make beginner friendly street legal bikes. They make hardcore hooligan / adventure / enduro bikes.
And a BMW F650GS is a damned fast bike as well (60km/h -> 110km/h in the time and with the amount of throttle it takes me 250 to do 60km/h->80km/h).

But if you stick to a KLR250, KLX250, CRF230L, WR-250, DR400, KLR650, DR650 (basically any of the japanese Dual sports) you’ll be fine.

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“The two seconds between ‘Oh S**!’ and the crash isn’t a lot of practice time.”

[Matt]

…grumble…

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“The two seconds between ‘Oh S**!’ and the crash isn’t a lot of practice time.”

[Author]

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