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ABS: Yes or no?
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September 4, 2008 at 12:14 pm #2037ReindeerParticipant
Wow! This really seems to be a contentious subject!
I’ve been reading up on ABS systems on bikes, and the opinions really fly back and forth. Pro-ABS is saying that it can really make a huge difference in controlling the bike in an emergency stop, especially under less than ideal conditions. Anti-ABS says that it is essentially an expensive gimmick that doesn’t make any difference, or worse can actually increase stopping distances in an emergency.
Please help a confused newbie! LOL! If a bike like the SV650 has an option for ABS, is it something worth considering?
September 4, 2008 at 12:40 pm #11650BuddParticipantI would learn on a bike without it just so you don’t get used to having it there. No harm in getting on a bike with ABS after riding one without, but get on one without after learning on one that does have it, you might be more inclined to grab a hand full of brake and take a dive.
“I am the best there is at what I do, and what I do ain’t nice.”-Wolverine
September 4, 2008 at 12:46 pm #11651CBennettParticipantI can say just like on a car(i assume they use the same principals) id rather have it than not. They USED to say the same thing about ABS systems in cars(that they increased stopping distances) when they firs came out but that was because people were not actually taking advantage of the ABS they were still acting like it was the old system and they were pumping it and trying NOT to get the brakes to lockup. ive not read anything on bike specific systems though to know if they are the same or different then cars..but if its the same 100% id want it. Just like id rather(if it was a option) have FI over anything with carbs.
September 4, 2008 at 1:44 pm #11652ilnamParticipantAccording to Proficient Motorcycling:
The purpose of ABS is not to produce a shorter stop, but to give the rider confidence to apply the brakes fully without risking a slideout. The ABS system prevents a skid (and a potential crash) if the rider brakes too hard for available traction, but ABS activation also lengthens the stop slightly. Compare the stopping distances of two similar machines, one with standard brakes, and one with ABS:
The tested stopping distance of a 1998 Honda VFR800FI (non-ABS) from 60 mph to 0 is 107.9 ft.
The tested stopping distance of a 2002 VFR800FI (with ABS) from 60 mph to 0 is 119.5 ft.You may have already seen that, since you seem to be looking into ABS thoroughly. I’ve seen contradicting reports as well. Proficient Motorcycling concludes the braking section very well, so I’ll just quote it:
“Whatever the brake system on your motorcycle, rider skill is still the most important part of controlling speed. It’s important to know when to brake and how to brake. And it’s even more important to develop good braking habits, because even the most advanced system can’t prevent a slideout caused by poor techniques (such as snapping the throttle closed in the middle of a tight turn). When you are suddenly faced with a hazardous situation, good habits will help you pull off a successful stop without having to think about it. “Anyway, I’d agree with Budd. Beginner rider and first bike, right? Forgo the ABS, save a little money that way, and learn/practice solid fundamental breaking.
September 4, 2008 at 2:16 pm #11653MattParticipantAs a bike to learn on, imo you absolutely want a bike without ABS. You want to know, at the muscle-memory level how to threshold brake. If you don’t, then you are essentially limiting yourself to ABS equiped bikes from then on. Sure you could buy a non-abs bike and learn threshold braking in a parking lot, but taking a test spin on a friends bike? Not a good idea if your emergency-reaction reflexes are based on an ABS bike.
Also – if you do any offroading (not an issue since you are looking into an SV650), understand that ABS is a BAD thing.
ABS dramatically increased stopping distance on loose surfaces (such as dirt, gravel, and snow). On those surfaces, a surprising amount of the stopping power is actually coming about from the material building up infront of your wheel. This can’t happed on an ABS equiped vehicle. That is why ABS equiped dual sports (like the BMW GS) has a switch to turn ABS off.—
“The two seconds between ‘Oh S**!’ and the crash isn’t a lot of practice time.”September 4, 2008 at 2:53 pm #11654megaspazParticipantsaying not to get an abs street bike because you might ride a street bike without abs is like saying don’t get a car with abs because you might drive a car without abs. Poppy cock.
You can still practice proper braking technique on a bike with abs. abs equipped bikes give you feedback when it’s enabled. You will actually feel mechanically a push back on the brakes as they are forced released for a split second. When you feel that you know you’re grabbing hand full of brake. you are not limiting yourself to abs only bikes from then on. proper braking techinique is proper braking technique. abs equipped bikes do not prevent you from learning that in your emergency oh shit moment.
Yeh, on a street bike you are limiting yourself with an abs street bike… limiting the ability to do stoppies and power slide stops. *rollseyes*
abs increases stopping distance. yes, but only if it’s activated. it’s the same thing if you start grabbing a handful of brake on a non-abs bike. stopping distance is not increased if you properly apply your brakes.
if you’re looking to stack the odds more in your favor of survinging the streets, get a bike with abs. So far the argument against abs brakes on a first bike are, imo, bullshit.
Edit: every bike i plan to own will have abs brakes. you can get after market abs systems installed on most bikes nowadays. i’ll take any advantages out there that helps me keep the bike under control.
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around, I want it caught and shot now…September 4, 2008 at 3:07 pm #11656ilnamParticipantI’m changing direction and heading over to megaspaz’ side. Good points Matt and megaspaz!
September 4, 2008 at 3:11 pm #11657BuddParticipantIf you couldn’t tell, Spaz bought a bike with ABS. My wifes scooter has ABS (suprisingly). I actually feel better knowing that she isn’t going to accidently stoppie.
“I am the best there is at what I do, and what I do ain’t nice.”-Wolverine
September 4, 2008 at 3:13 pm #11659megaspazParticipantyup. and i’ve activated the front and rear abs in drills. it is a very distinct feedback. it’s not subtle at all.
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around, I want it caught and shot now…September 4, 2008 at 3:58 pm #11662RupmiscParticipantCBennett, above, was correct. They did say the same thing about cars. I have taken the following driving schools: Skip Barber 2 day driving; Skip Barber 3 day racing; Skip Barber Car Control Clinic, BMW M school, BMW advanced M School. All of the instructors were in accord on one point: they believe that an “expert” can stop in a shorter distance using threshold braking than using ABS. They also believe that there are damn few experts out there.
My guess is that the only reason you don’t see more ABS on motorcycles, is the cost. I wouldn’t be surprised if you also started seeing more traction control systems on more expensive bikes. I really fancy bike may give you the option of turning off the traction control system when you want to slide, but leave it on for normal driving. Again, this is a desirable feature, but it is expensive.
There is no question that these are good things (unless for some reason they don’t work, which doesn’t appear to be the case). ABS has saved a lot of lives in cars. The biggest problem, I believe, is that drivers do not know how to use the ABS (they try to pump, instead of flooring the brake and keeping it there-a problem that Mercedes has tried to deal with).
I want ABS on a bike if I can get it. It might even be worth getting a bigger bike for.
September 4, 2008 at 3:59 pm #11663AnonymousGuestPeople always tend to put down new stuff for various reasons .Was the same with ABS in cars, seat belts, transistors over tubes, CD players …. you name it. The fact is, as the technology advances, we are getting better stuff available to us, so why not use it.
What megaspaz said: ABS is being activated at the point where regular system would have gone in skid. Before that point, they are the same. After that point regular system goes towards low side, ABS stays upright in the direction of traveling. But with the ABS, you’d know where the point is, so you can safely practice not to get there if you choose so.
I would be very interested in finding out whether ABS allows you to brake and steer at the same time. I would guess probably yes, but breaking the traction occurs earlier, so consequently ABS kicks in earlier.
And those tests have been obtained in ideal conditions (probably with aux wheels attached too) with expert riders doing it. Do you foresee your emergency braking being done under the same conditions?
K
September 4, 2008 at 4:13 pm #11664RupmiscParticipantI’m OK with ABS, but frankly, CDs are more convenient than LPs (records) but they aren’t better. I’ve gone back to a tube amp and records. But good digital transport still sounds good with tubes. Tubes aren’t better than transistors (and they are a pain) but they can create a warmer, fuller sound-not better but not worse.
I think ABS does kick in a little earlier than lock, not at the same time. It is not as good as perfect threshold braking, it is just better for most people. I don’t know about turning. in cars, you can try and steer a bit with ABS working, but I’m not sure how that would work on two wheels (I’m not a physicist, and don’t know how bike ABS systems measure sideways stress-cars have four wheels for modulation and feedback).
September 4, 2008 at 9:15 pm #11672AndrewParticipantI have ABS on one of the cars and I have hardly ever used them. I don’t really care for them because I should never be fully locking the brakes anyway. I prefer the control I have on the car without them. It may be an illusion in a true panic situation but if you have them you need to know how they will react so it’s not a surprise.
September 5, 2008 at 1:46 pm #11700AnonymousGuest…….
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