- This topic has 14 replies, 7 voices, and was last updated 15 years, 7 months ago by Andrew.
What makes certain bikes not fit for beginners ?
-
AuthorPosts
-
August 31, 2008 at 6:24 pm #2002NoobacycleParticipant
Perhaps this has already been covered before? I would just like a more in depth discussion on this. There are many people out there who I see riding the fast/powerful bikes due to either peer pressure, or lack of experience.
I told a few buddies at work that I just passed the MSF course and will get a waiver in the mail leading to getting my motorcycle license. I’m currently looking at bikes such as Suzuki SV650 and Ninja 250, Ninja 500. But since one of the guys I work with bought a second hand R1, they recommend the same bike to me. I know better that the R1 is too much bike in the beginning and uses too much gas and costs too much for a first bike in my opinion.
I’m 6’0 and weigh 185lbs. Will I actually fit on a Ninja 250? or is the SV650 or Ninja 500 a better choice?
I’m curious about factors other than Power and weight that make bikes not good for beginners. Feel free to add to this discussion.
August 31, 2008 at 7:32 pm #11479rtParticipantI’m not sure how you can tell that somebody is on a bike too powerful for them just by looking??
You can make a educated guess, but it’s hard to tell for a fact. I try not to judge too much.Anyway, sometimes a buddy will try to sell you on a new bike they’ve just bought…because they’re still trying to convince themselves that they’ve just bought the right bike. Lol.
Buyers remorse is a beeotch!Ask yourself these questions?
Your’ 6’0″ 185 Lbs. Your’ not a little guy.
What do you want to do with the bike?
You want to cruise, tour or go the enthusiast-sport route?
Maybe all of those??
If your’ like the average motorcyclist that I know, you just want to get a bike that you won’t soon outgrow and will be able to do a little of all of those at a fair price.
How’s your’ health?
How’s your’ confidence?
How well do you handle other machinery?
Are you a good driver?
Do you “choke” under pressure.
Truthfully answer these questions to yourself and then start researching bikes to accomodate your’ answers.Don’t let me or anybody else tell you what to buy.
You may be very capable of handling a larger bike as your’ first bike.But your’ looking for a few opinions. here’s mine.
Middle weight cruisers are good to start with. Normally mild power delivery but can tour and cruise just fine.
Same for the SV650’s and it’s standard competition, they’ll tour. Very capable, but a little hotter to handle than a 805cc cruiser.
(News flash for you SV owners that haven’t ridden a cruiser, your’ bike is faster and has more of a “face-plant city” feel to it.
So I’m amused when a SV-650 owner claims a 660 lb middle weight cruise is too much bike LOL.)
Bikes like those I mentioned above, are great to learn on, but totally highway capable.You’ll have people suggest 250cc’s and 500cc’s. Thats fine, some great bikes are in that class and they are a lot of fun too, but remember, these are small bikes in 2008.
It’s not that they won’t go 80 mph, it’s just that a larger bike will do it better and more comfortably.
a easy ride will do more for your’ enthusiasm than a dissappointing ride.
(No offense guys, but saying that 250cc’s were big back in the 60’s and 70’s is totally irrelevant in the real world today)My opinion and from my experience. When friend’s encourage a friend to get a larger bike, it’s not always childish peer pressure.It could simply be so you have a bike that will keep pace with them, so you all can ride the same kind of ride for the same kind of distance and make it more enjoyable.
Before the Japanese made cruisers, Harley guys rode with Harley guys and riders with Superhawks and other fast bikes rode with each other. Sure it became a contest between the two factions, but the core reason is that bikes of a like and kind, pace better together, they ride better together.
Your’ buddy is probably suggesting the R1 because he wants you to be able to ride with him. It’s a compliment.No one bike will ever have it all, but you can find one bike that will come closer for you than the others if you do some research.
Good luck!September 1, 2008 at 2:03 am #11486MattParticipantNo offense, but:
“It could simply be so you have a bike that will keep pace with them” = Worst reason to buy a bike. Ride your own ride, Period.The instant you try to keep up with someone is the instant you start making judgement mistakes about cornering speed.
If you are just starting out, the last thing you should be thinking about is keeping up with your buddies.If you try to go the long distances your buddies do, even on a bike that does it “better” than a smaller bike, you are asking for trouble. You will get mentally and physically worn on (on any bike) before your buddies do. Then you are far from home and tired, which means mistakes.
Even on distance trips, you have to learn your limits (and build them up) on your own.
Someone just getting into distance running does not just join an accomplished marathoner for a jog expecting to keep up with them.
Ride your own ride.
As a helpful suggestion (just so I don’t come across as totally negative):
If you have sport riding buddies, join them for part of a trip. Ride an easier section and ask them to ride it at a sedate (legal) pace. You get to ride with them, you get to set your own pace, and when your bit is done, they get to have enjoyed your company and then resume blasting the back roads.If your friends are distance riders, join them for the initial hour or so of their trip. In many accomplished sport-touring groups (example: canyonchasers.net) this is extremely common. There will be only a handful of riders doing a full multi-day trip, but each day (or half day) they will meet and join up with some locals.
As RT says, chose the bike that is right for you, not for your friends.
And I’m going to point out that at 6’0″ 185#, you aren’t a little guy, but you aren’t especially tall either. You should find most bikes fit you reasonably well. I’m almost identical proportions and very few bikes I’ve sat on felt cramped (Honda Rebel being the only one)
—
“The two seconds between ‘Oh S**!’ and the crash isn’t a lot of practice time.”September 1, 2008 at 2:21 am #11488AndrewParticipantIf you don’t ant to read the articles on the site about big bikes then how about thinking about your buddies R1. Looks like it has 155 hp and can provide 88 lb/ft of torque. Thats a race bike with blinkers on dude. My Ninja has 25 hp and 16 lb/ft of torque. So for 4 times the displacement and along with the extra weight it has 6 times the hp and about 5 times the torque.
If you have no riding experience then an R1 is likely to be a very quick way to get your own video on you-tube. If you drop the clutch by mistake or grab a whole bunch of throttle the R1 will respond so fast that you will be in trouble.
When I did my research the items that came up regarding beginner bikes were:
1. Smooth handling. A bike that responds instantly to a riders touch, like a BMW, is bad for a beginner. A bike that responds a little slower a gives a margin of error to the noob is better.
2. Smooth power delivery. A twin or a single will deliver power in a predictable fashion. An inline 4 bike will change as you go up the gears and the powerband. A flick of the wrist will not do what the noob thinks. Thats bad.
3. Smooth suspension. A noob will be better off with a softer more forgiving suspension than a hard race suspension that could wig out the noob in the middle of a corner. That would be bad.
4. Weight. Read some of Elwoods posts about how long it taking him to get used to his Sportster. Riding is about skill. Skill can handle a heavy bike but a noob without those skills does not.
If you read any of Bens articles he talks about skill development. A smaller more friendly bike promotes faster skill development. That allows the rider to learn skills on something forgiving before transferring the skills to something bigger and faster later.
September 1, 2008 at 5:13 am #11492BuddParticipantI had my first problem with the size of the Ninja last night. I was parked at someones house in the grass with a slight incline behind me. The only way out was to push the bike backwards. I was too short to get leverage on the bike and had to get off to back up my bike. My friend that is 5″11 was able to back his up without getting off. The guy that owns the place is at least 6ft and he doesn’t have a problem either. Oh, they ride ninja 250s as well. Will riding a 250 make you sore. Maybe for the first couple of weeks. I would suspect that this happens on most bikes thought. Weight won’t be an issue. The bike is hardly going to know you are there.
“I am the best there is at what I do, and what I do ain’t nice.”-Wolverine
September 1, 2008 at 10:38 pm #11521rtParticipantNo offense taken at all Matt.
But understand that I am only refering to new riders who plan on riding with others when they get the skill to do so.
I seem to have to always clarify that. Lol.And I’m referring to what happens after a rider becomes skilled with their’ bike, I’m assuming they will eventually master the damn thing…I’m a optimist, not a crashologist
Some people can become capable on their’ bike in a single week, some take longer.
Of course, if you’re not skilled, you shouldn’t be riding with others anyway.Heck, even the Idiot’s book on motorcycling tries to steer readers away from little bikes that folks can outgrow too quickly.
you could say that my personal history has me agreeing with them.September 2, 2008 at 3:12 am #11531MunchParticipantPersonally why should a rider new or otherwise be “forced to fit” the group?
A good group ride should have a good assessment of everyones skills and bike capabilities before departing so that the lead bike ( veteran rider) can allow for adjustments and eye problems for the lower skilled and steer the group away from them. The tail rider should be as equally skilled as the lead to help spot trouble from the lesser experienced ( positioned in between) and be able to communicate that to the lead so no one gets pushed or lost, and ultimately endangered.
As many have stated on this wonderful site… go sit on a bike…. then another one…..then on to another dealership of different manufacture…. sit on theirs…. find what fits YOU ….not your friends… not us…. but your comfort.
Yesterday is a memory, tomorrow is a prediction, but today…… is a Bi**hSeptember 2, 2008 at 1:13 pm #11539rtParticipantNobody should have a bike they can’t handle, whether it’s their’ first month or tenth year of riding. I agree.
I’m not saying that.
I sense that I may be offending some folks with smaller bikes. This is a beginner’s bike forum, I’m not wanting to appear to be a cc snob.
I’ll apologise, it’s not my intent. I’m simply trying to save a few people some frustration and money down the rode.It’s not really complicated.
I’m a founder of a local riding club that’s been around for years.
It has over 100 active members and over 1,100 internet users.
We see all kinds of riders. We are very newbie friendly.
I meet and become friends and acquaintances of new riders like many of the good folks here every month.
There are many experienced riders in our’ organization helping with advice, working on other member’s’ bikes and encouraging new riders every week among other things
Peer pressure NEVER fits into the equation.
So yeah, I’m speaking from experience. Perhaps more than I will explain here.
The single biggest problem I hear from the new riders I meet is not “dropping their’ bike” or going “down”.
Many complain that they should have picked a different bike to start on.
Many wish they would have bought a bike that had “longer legs”,a bike that would have grown a little more with them.
This includes those of smaller size and women.
I’m not recommending a liter bike or big cruiser either. Most any middle weight bike will do whatever you need it to do and again fom experience, a middle weight standard or cruiser is very accomodating to a new rider. (But not a middle weight sport bike however. Those things are indeed rockets!)
As I suggested before, research your’ new bike, see what will work best for you and don’t believe for one minute you are polarized into buying a light weight bike when a middle weight may in fact work best for you.If you can afford a new 250cc or 500cc, you can afford a used 800cc.
Don’t dismiss the used bike market. there’s a lot of low mileage used bikes for a good price out there.
If you have absolutely no intention of riding with anyone else with a larger bike, then a 250 or 500 is a great and fun bike.
Perhaps a light weight bike is all you need ? That’s fine. You should stick with that bike then.
Just know that it’s limitations will become more apparent when/if you ride with others. You won’t find this out riding by yourself.
I’ll repeat ” WHEN / IF YOU DECIDE TO RIDE WITH OTHERS”.
That’s it, it’s not a social statement or dogma, just a very real motorcycle factor that the informed consumer should be aware of.
Good luck with whatever you decide.September 2, 2008 at 2:38 pm #11541CBennettParticipantI think 2 things conspire to make a bike non NOOB friendly. Weight and Power. I have NEVER in my life ridden a motorcycle. Yesterday I figured since I was taking the MSP course in 4 days that id jump on the Ninja 250 and take it around the circle(block, i live on a circle not a normal straight street : ) ) . Its SO much different than ANYTHING id ever ridden done before I was so happy that I did NOT have a high powered bike. I KNOW FOR A FACT that I would have at least gone up and over 1 curb or curbed the wheels and possibly dumped the bike if I had had say a 600 with close to 100HP to “learn” on. The 250 is just so much more “controllable” and if you accidentally roll on the throttle or forget to look through a turn or object fixate(i think i did both on my first turn) the 250 will not go 60 MPH in 3 seconds same with the weight..I know the 250 is a lightweight but im GLAD it is. when I almost hit that curb I was kinda sideways when I got the brakes on and clutch pulled in and luckily it being light I managed to keep it upright..had it been a Harley or something I would have dumped it(im 5’10” 165). Luckily for my first time out I did “ok” I guess I did not hit or wreck anything and managed to keep the Bike upright.
Im learning and got the Safety course in 3 days now..Im debating if I should just stay off the bike till I get the course done or if I should keep practicing : ) . I just think the bigger heavier bikes, especially for TRUE total Noobs like me will get you in trouble a LOT quicker with their speed as stuff will happen MUCH quicker on them(I kept forgetting or just not letting off the throttle in turns..imagine that “mistake” on a 600..I would keep saying WTF is going on why am i going so fast lol then id say cause YOU are twisting the throttle DUMMIE!!! STOP! ) and the weight the same deal..its much easier to manage a 320 LB bike than a 400+ LB bike for a first time rider. I got the up and down shifting thing ok and will get better in time, I didnt stall it once, but I gotta REALLY work on in turn throttle control and low speed turns themselves…just seems to me that the bike just does not want to turn in a tight turn but thats just something I need to learn never being on a bike..a 250 will help me learn that a LOT quicker than a more powerful/heavier 600+ would.
September 2, 2008 at 2:59 pm #11544AndrewParticipantI think a lot of new riders don’t want to deal with buying multiple bikes in their first few years and so try to start out on the bike they really want. That’s making a decision based on your wallet and ignoring the reality that riders change their bikes more frequently than car drivers. I also think new riders apply car logic to what they should buy and how long they will keep it. No one wants to buy a learning bike and then upgrade. But how many people did that when they learned to drive because they bought or had access to an older junker or family car? Lots I would bet.
September 2, 2008 at 3:19 pm #11545CBennettParticipantyeah, just gotta change their thinking..Ive had my bike 4 weeks and already had 3 guys at work offered to buy it for what I paid for it. So they normally(sans Harleys for some reason) are a quick sell especially the 250’s.
September 2, 2008 at 8:51 pm #11574rtParticipantI must admit.
Those of you running your’ bikes into curbs and letting them scare the hell out of you should probably not be riding at all.
Motorcycles aren’t meant for everyone.
How’s that for advice that won’t get somebody killed Elwood?Read the Idiots Book of motorcycling. It’s a great book by real experts, not some jerk from the internet like me.
I’ve re-read it recently because of this great site and some of the uninformed arguements I’ve seen made here.
It’s authored by the motorcycle journalists from Motor cyclist magazine. It’s not my bible, but it’s not bad either.
Here’s just a few of their’ recommended beginner’s bikes. I’ll let you all do the research as to why.Kawasaki’s
ZX-6
W650
vulcan 750
vulcan 800Suzuki
C50 (800cc)
GSX600F
SV650Truimph
bonneville 750ccYamaha
YZF600r
1100 Classic
v-star clasic 650
YzF600Rharley
883 sportster
1200 sportster (yep, that’s right)Those are just a few. There are many others and some of you guys will probably be surprised by some of the others listed. I’ve stuck mostly with middle weights as I personally feel they make good beginners bikes.
Why argue when just doing some research and presenting the facts can open some eyes?September 2, 2008 at 9:26 pm #11577AndrewParticipantI have the book I just don’t agree with the bikes it lists. If someone is a complete noob like I was then most of those bikes are bigger than what is needed. As a noob I passed the MSF and was parking lot trained. I now have my own 250 and I am practicing on it to get more comfortable doing the basics before I head out into traffic.
Someone who has some dirt riding experience or who used to ride when they were younger is a lot different than I am. They had skills or have some skills that I did not when I started off a square one. In fact having never driven a stick put me slightly more behind than that.
September 3, 2008 at 12:37 am #11586CBennettParticipantI also think most of those bikes are pretty FOOLISH first bikes to learn on. My brother in law learned on a GSX 600 and told me no way to make his same MISTAKE in doing that..he wished he had got the GS500F first then moved up.(i guess i could handle the sportster and V star 650 on the list as being ok)
September 3, 2008 at 4:41 am #11602AndrewParticipantI also wonder how long it’s been since some veteran riders were noobs and if they at all remember how hard it was to get the basics right in the beginning.
-
AuthorPosts
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.