[Matt]

Where are you going to get spare parts?
There are some universal parts that will still fit, but if you need anything more specific than an oil filter or a tire, you’ll be hunting the local scrap yard and owner swap meet.

Who is going to work on the bike? Most kids working the dealership shop are younger than that bike, and it has a lot of “standards” that are no longer standard.

Great bike, but at this point it is 26 years old – would you buy a 26 year old car as your first car?

I bought a ’84 interceptor as my first bike. I learned a very expensive lesson. I recommend you don’t learn it the hard way yourself.

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“The two seconds between ‘Oh S**!’ and the crash isn’t a lot of practice time.”

[Matt]

Not being a mechanical engineer there is only so much I can say about the tolerance of bikes. I’ll try to explain it as best I can, but I hope Fotobits or someone more knowledgeable on this subject can chime in and correct me.

Tolerance to rider inputs is actually a slowness to respond. The bike takes a deliberate effort to turn in. On a faster bike, it responds to every minute input. Great if you have subtle control and finesse, but trouble if you haven’t yet mastered it. Basically, if you look at a new driver, they tend to wander across the lane and over correct ever change in direction. As they get better the corrections become smaller and smoother until they drive in smooth consistent lines.
The same is true of riders. But on a super sport, those over corrections, or other unintentional inputs (and the over corrections against them) make the bike a handful, because it responds to them instantly.
Make no mistake, even a tolerant bike like a Ninja 250 is a fast handling bike, but it isn’t razor edged.

Then you also have tolerance to road surfaces. And this comes down to suspension and frame rigidity. The stiffer the frame, the less it bends, and the more bumps in the road cause it to bounce around (just like a stiff suspension sports car). The odd thing is that for a bike to be friendly, you want it to have some lateral flex, that is, you want the bike to bend from side to side.
Think of if this way, when the bike is upright and you go over a bump, the suspension travels up absorbing the bump. If there wasn’t suspension you’d be bounced around all of hells half acres. Now, when you lean the bike over, the suspension only travels in line with the bike. So it can’t absorb all of the bump. If the frame can flex side ways, then the frame can bend a bit to help absorb the bump. This keeps the wheels in contact with the ground and the bike going where you want it.

A modern super-sport (frankly, any of the aluminum framed super sports) is a very stiff beast. It is meant for much smoother surfaces than “real roads”. And so, you have to be that much better of a rider to handle the bike hitting bumps when leaned over. Steel flexes much more, and so an older steel framed sport bike will be “nicer” in this respect. But some aluminum framed bikes are still friendly.

My ZZR-250 is a friendly aluminum framed bike. I had it leaned over in a corner and hit a tar snake (patches crack in the road). The bike jumped a bit, slid slightly towards the outside of the corner (in this case towards the double yellow). But more importantly, I wasn’t in any way ready for it. My left hand came off the bar and my left foot came off the peg! I was able to get myself reseated properly and get through the corner with no ill effect because the bike just kept on doing its thing. I’m certain if that learning experience had happened on a stiffer bike or faster reacting bike, I’d be sharing a story about how I slid down the pavement at 40mph…

Now, as for the cornering changes, I can’t speak on that bit very well. I’ve only ever ridden bikes that are tolerant to mid corner corrections. I only know of it from reading reviews of super sports. My understanding of it is this:
Once the bike is leaned into a corner and the speed is set, it is balanced. Any changes to that balance unsettle the bike. Adding throttle, brake, or even extra or less pressure to the lean can cause the bike to become unsettled (shake, skip, slid, etc) and you have to control it.
I wish I had a better answer for you. Again, maybe Ben, Fotobits, or Spaz could chime in here.
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“The two seconds between ‘Oh S**!’ and the crash isn’t a lot of practice time.”

[Matt]

Putting foot down

Are we discussing stickign a leg out for balance control, or are we discussing dabbing your foot on the ground?

Dirt riders stick their legs out for balance control, the foot ideally never touches the ground. What this does is it changes the bikes centre of gravity, much like leaning your upper body, only it does it low, below the CoG, to keep the bike from flopping or falling over. On a tall Dirt style bike (dual sport, enduro, etc) this works well.
On a lower sport type bike, it doesn’t work as well. The bike has a very different CoG, and moving your body around and hugging the tank with your knees is a much better alternative.

Planting or dabbing your foot is a big No No. Contact between your foot and the ground can end up with you in a world of hurt.
I mean, morphine is fun and all, but steel pins holding you ankle together, not so much.

Feet on pegs, and when thigns get hairy, crush that tank with your thighs, push the bar in the bar in the direction you want to go, and lan your body in the direction you want to go. One guy described it really well to me – you don’t push with your arm, you keep your arm in the same position (but not locked) and push with your shoulder – thereby counter steering and leaning at the same time – works wonders for me.

—
“The two seconds between ‘Oh S**!’ and the crash isn’t a lot of practice time.”

[Matt]

An ’02 is still a twitchy powerful beast.
Frankly, so is a ’97.

If you want a 600, I’d look back to ’92 and previous (dependant on model). The 1988 GSX-R was darned close to the new GSX-650F (not a totally newb friendly bike, but far better than any 600).

If you look back, the 600s of 1990 were still often making 100hp – which is frankly far more than you want. Ideally I’d say try to stick to half of that. Which as you guessed, puts you in the 500cc bikes for the most part.

Now, there is a definite hole in your logic. You want a powerful bike, but hope that age will make is safer. Power is dangerous, period. Even a rebel with its 16hp can kill you if you don’t use your brain. It is all a matter of risk management. The more power, the more risk. And unless you have experience with motorcycles, you really aren’t in a position to judge just how much risk a given amount of power is to you.

Don’t ask “How much power can I get?”, instead ask “What is it I want to do?”

If you simply want to have fun on the road, a Ninja 250 is sufficient.
If you want to be able to accelerate like a bat out of hell and pass any car, a Ninja 500 is sufficient.
If you want to be able to out accelerate other race-type bike, and pretty much only then, do you need to look super sport bikes.
What else do you want out of your bike?

I would suggest something that is:
Comfortable, good looking to you, makes a sound you like, feels “fun”, accelerates fast enough to beat traffic and give you a rush, doesn’t intimidate you, is mistake tolerant, handles corners well and allows mid-corner corrections.

A Ninja 250 will fit a lot of those. The looks and sound are completely personal, and some people won’t find it fast enough in the straight. I personally find it adequate unless I’m playing in not-entirely-legal speeds.
A Ninja 500 will fit all of those save possibly the look and sound.

An old (15 year old, but still in good mechanical shape) 600cc sport bike will fit less of those. It may or maynot be comfortable, looks and sounds are personal again. It WILL accelerate fast enough, but so much that is very well might intimidate you, and its mistake tolerance will be somewhat there. Not as tolerant as the 500, but far more than a newer bike.

A newer (10 year or younger) sport bike will fit very few of these. It may be comfortable, but it should intimidate you (if it doesn’t you don’t have a healthy enough sense of self-preservation ). It won’t be mistake tolerant. And it won’t like you making changes to your line mid corner. That is the part the scares em the most, as I am constantly making corrections to my line. Having to “get it right the first time” when I’m learning – not such a great plan in my books.

—
“The two seconds between ‘Oh S**!’ and the crash isn’t a lot of practice time.”

[Matt]

The Monster has a pretty big following. It out sells all the other models. Monsters pretty much pay the bills for the company.
So yea, lots of people like it. What you’ll find about Ducati is that there are really Two groups of big time ducati fans.

The “Ducatistas” who love the sport bikes, the ‘strada, the Gt. But they tend to look down on the lowly Monster as a “fashion accessory, not a bike”.

Then you get the “Monsteristas” who really dig the Monster and don’t really care for the rest of the line up. Many of these guys are good riders who just want a plain old fun bike and love the Monster for what it is. Others love the looks/life-style of it. Unfortunately, Ducati is lately advertising the Monster more to the later, so you get a lot of “life-style”, “urban”, and “fashion” comments in their press releases and advertising – which just turns off more of the “hardcore” ducati fans.

If you read a lot of reviews you’ll find the Ducati is pretty much universally liked by reviewers, though in pretty much every facet there is a bike that does whatever better than the Monster, so it rarely wins shoot-outs and comparos. Like the Sporter it isn’t a bike you buy for its stats, or price – you buy it because it speaks to you.
—
“The two seconds between ‘Oh S**!’ and the crash isn’t a lot of practice time.”

[Matt]

“P.S. For the more sensitive souls on the board, “crap” is not a swear word, it’s derived from the name of the man who is generally credited with inventing the flush toilet, one Thomas Crapper.”

You learn something new every day.

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“The two seconds between ‘Oh S**!’ and the crash isn’t a lot of practice time.”

[Matt]

Practice practice practice

—
“The two seconds between ‘Oh S**!’ and the crash isn’t a lot of practice time.”

[Matt]

Get the one that you love.

Bikes (and cars) are too expensive to buy one that doesn’t do it for you.

100 mile trips aren’t too bad, the trick is stopping when needed. Don’t try to do it in one go. Stability at speed won’t be an issue, and the effects of wind and trucks will be just as present on it as any other bike really.
Comfort will be entirely personal. I like a slight lean forward with no wind protection. Not everyone does.

Also, a new bike is a new canvas, you can adjust it to fit your needs and wants.
Want more wind protection? get a givi fly screen. Want less weight on your wrists, get bar risers. There are solutions to everything. They will all change the character of the bike, not always for the better, but you’ll learn what you like and what you want – just ride it stock for a while to learn what it is you actually want changed not what you think you want changed.

A guy walked into a ducati dealership after buying a supersport 800. He was complaining that it put too much weight on his wrists and asked the service mechanice what he could to to relieve the pressure on his wrists.
“Go Faster”

—
“The two seconds between ‘Oh S**!’ and the crash isn’t a lot of practice time.”

[Matt]

Took MSF June 07, rode one-a-week-ish july through to october.
Took my bike out at the start of april, and ridden regularly… so I will I could say “just over a year” saying “5 months” is far more accurate.

—
“The two seconds between ‘Oh S**!’ and the crash isn’t a lot of practice time.”

[Matt]

The reason I say car has nothing to do with shifting or vehicel control. It has everything to do with other drivers.

As a new driver you’ll be amazed at the raw unfiltered stupidity you encounter on the road. People will simply pull out in front of you (even when you are in a car) and do hundreds of things that defy logic. As a new driver you’ll be pre-occupied with a lot of different things. Learning to see and judge the subtle cues about what other traffic is about to do is not an instant skill. It takes time. And until you have it, being on a motorcycle is all the more dangerous.

I’d been driving for ten years before I got on a motorcycle. I’m not saying you need to wait as long, but certainly 6 months is the minimum in my mind.

If you can, I highly recommend a good defensive-driving-oriented driving school. One that has you alone in the car with the instructor (As opposed to 3 students at once) with an emphasis on learning to drive safely – not to pass your driving test.
Just like learning to ride, you will inherit all the bad habbits of your instructor. So having a verified ciriculum in addition to your parents teaching helps a great deal in making you a better and more aware driver.

The comment about taking an autocross course is valid, as it teaches you how to control your car in difficult situations, but I think learning how to cope with the dangers of other road users is more important than learning how to extract performance from your car.

—
“The two seconds between ‘Oh S**!’ and the crash isn’t a lot of practice time.”

[Matt]

1 mile = 1.6km

Once you remember that, everything else is easy. And really, it doesn’t take long to just “know instantly” the conversion.

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“The two seconds between ‘Oh S**!’ and the crash isn’t a lot of practice time.”

[Matt]

The KLR struggles on the highway because it is designed for lower speeds. It only makes 40ish horsepower (but lots of torque). Despite being a 650, many smaller cc bikes (such as the ninja 500) are considerably faster.

I’m in no way saying to avoid the SV650 or Ninja 650 as too fast (with a bit of experience on a slower bike I really don’t think they are, but if you’ve never ridden any bike I think they are) – but be prepared for a big difference between the KLR and 500/650 road bikes.

Have fun, and welcome back to the world of two-wheeled fun

—
“The two seconds between ‘Oh S**!’ and the crash isn’t a lot of practice time.”

[Matt]

First off, Weapon, have you gotten your rear suspension setup yet? I’d hold off comments on how unstable the bike is until that gets sorted out. A slightly off suspension setup can really soil the entire feel of a bike. This is true on top end sport bikes and lowly mountain bikes.
I’ve heard of 300 pound guys on SVs who love ’em to death. And with a wet weight of over 400 pounds, I don’t think you out-weigh your bike just yet

Next, I’m going to chime in on the Ninja 250. On the freeway (under an hour at a time) the buzzing doesn’t bother me. The 8000rpm engine speed is barely audible above the wind noise (with ear plugs).
If you are paying attention there is absolutely no shortage of power. It’ll get to “do not pass go do not collect $200” speeds faster than most cars. If you can get in a camry, jetta, or focus and feel they are fast enough on the free way not to be a danger, well, the ninja is faster.

But, longer than an hour, especially if you are riding twisty highways at above posted speed (only 15% above in my case… but fast for me), you have to keep the engine on the boil – which means 7000rpm+ and 8k-9k if there are any uphills in the corners.
And hour of 8-9k and a sporting tuck, THAT gets buzzy. My hands were always fine, but my feet buzzed quickly.

For that reason alone I can see myself moving up to a 500 or a 650.

And as for gear:
Yes, start buying now, because it’ll cost you more than you think. The cheapest helmet I *personally* can wear is close to $200. The one I do wear is closer to $500. Over all I’ve spent way more than $1000 on gear. And the money spent on good fitting gear makes the experience so much more enjoyable. I’d rather have a cheap bike and good gear than a good bike and cheap gear.

Only buy a NEW helmet. Don’t save money buying used (even if the guy says it has never been dropped, you are putting your life in your trust of his statement). And make sure you try it on for awhile before buying it (visit a shop, wear all their helmets, find hte ones you like, then wear those for 20 minutes or more to make sure no pressure points build up).

Frankly, with all your gear, you should at least try on something from that company locally to make sure it fits. I’ve learned that only Icon makes glvoes that fit my hands. Almost no others are comfortable. Just like jeans, no two companies use identical measurments, buy online if you like, but try ’em on someplace first!

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“The two seconds between ‘Oh S**!’ and the crash isn’t a lot of practice time.”

[Matt]

On my interceptor to ever see anything other than my elbows I had to pull my elbow in against my ribs anytime I made a mirror check. I still do that on my ZZR and I with my mirror setup (elbow taking up about 1/3 of the visible space in the mirror in neutral riding position) and I can see most the way behind me. Simple physics says you’ll never be able to see directly behind you unless your mirrors are pretty far out. But thankfully, cars are pretty big things and take up a lot of space. I have yet to be surprised by a car directly behind me (now, a car passing me at high speed, so much so that I never saw him coming in my side mirror between mirror checks- that has happened a few times).
—
“The two seconds between ‘Oh S**!’ and the crash isn’t a lot of practice time.”

[Matt]

I’m not refering to the weight of the Tiger. Frankly, at 470pounds dry, it is a lightweight compared to other bikes like ith (The 1200GS is a pig!). All the reviews I’ve read say once under way it is a very light bike.

I really liked it for all the reasons you stated. But I sat on one in the dealership and I just couldn’t feel comfortable on a bike that physically large. I’m 6 foot and I couldn’t flat foot it. Even with my feet on the pegs the over all feeling was of being on a very large vehicle. If you are used to a smaller bike (such as the nighthawk, or in my case the ZZR-250) it really can be a night and day difference.

I have no such issues on the Bonnie, Versys, Katana 750, Z750, or any host of other sub litre bikes I’ve sat on.
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“The two seconds between ‘Oh S**!’ and the crash isn’t a lot of practice time.”

[Author]

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