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Ducati 696
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September 12, 2008 at 12:31 am #12022MattParticipant
Tiger is a BIG bike, Sit on one, you’ll see what I mean. It is a huge difference from the nighthawk.
What do you plan on doing “off road”? The Tiger can handle light fire road duty, but not a serious off roading, not like a BMW GS can. If you want to go “classy” I’d go with a BMW F650GS or Triumph Bonnie. Both are great bikes, obviously the bonnie is more meant for road, but she’ll handle occasional dirt roads.
Otherwise look into the Versys and V-Strom 650. In particular if the Tiger strikes your intrest look into these two bikes. Much cheaper to own and easier to handle – and both make excellent long distance bikes.
You’ve got some miles under your seat now, and you’ve tried some other bikes. Realistically, only you are in a position to say what will make a good second bike for you. Personally, I think staying away from the big bikes is probably still a good idea. You’ve got your first few steps up the ladder, you don’t need to do each rung individually, but jumping a bunch isn’t a good idea either. And really, we are spoiled for choices of good bikes in the 500cc – 800cc range.
Oh, and as for your bit on brakes – watch out for beemers. They are “two finger” brakes. If you grab with all four fingers you’re in for a rough and very quick stop.
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“The two seconds between ‘Oh S**!’ and the crash isn’t a lot of practice time.”September 12, 2008 at 12:43 am #12023RupmiscParticipantTiger has the same engine as the Speed triple (somewhat detuned). It has ABS brakes and can be had with heated grips. It has good luggage options, but is reasonably fun without them. It can be used to go from here to there. I wasn’t thinking about any off roading beyond the inevitable occasional hard pan road or gravel driveway.
The F650GS looks really good, but may be hard to find, and even harder to get from a dealer I’m willing to do business with ( I really dislike the closest BMW dealers). The Bonneville is gorgeous and I want one. I have read, however, that the rear brake is a little too easy to lock up, and it may not be quite as good on a highway. I love both those bikes, and will be able to test ride a Bonneville soon
Although I live in the suburbs north of Boston, the roads can be cracked, have potholes and other unpleasantness. I had read that the Tiger is a pretty forgiving bike on these roads (at least compared to the Street Triple or the 696. Tiger dry weight is 469 lbs. with ABS. Anyway, I was wondering what would let me take a 100 mile trip, pack some camera gear (serious gear), but still be manageable and fun around the area. That was the reason for my question. I was also OK on the speed triple and a little cramped on the Ducati (not bad). Maybe the Versys?
Oh yeah, about those BMW brakes, same for the Speed Triple, and Ducati (and they don’t have ABS)!! By the way, is the Tiger lighter than the 800ST?
Took a great long ride today. Temp was in the 60’s. I can feel the creep of winter.
September 12, 2008 at 3:41 am #12037RabParticipantWell, as you know, my first bike was a Nighthawk 250 and my second was a Bonneville (‘just had to have a Bonnie), which I commuted on 5 days a week for two years (70 mile round trip, mostly freeway with much lane-splitting (California)).
For me, the Bonneville was a completely natural progression from the Nighthawk and I felt completely at home on it from the first time I rode it. They are similar bikes in some ways e.g. air-cooled parallel twin engine, upright riding position,”retro”. I note that for 2009, the Bonneville will be Fuel Injected (pumps disguised as carbs), so that will probably make it feel quite different to my carbureted one I think. Those in the showrooms right now probably have carbs though, so if you spring for a Bonnie, get a pre-2009 for the authentic Bonnie experience.
Back brake? Yeah, you could lock it up if you stomped on it, but no more than most bikes I would think. I changed my stock Bridgestone Battleaxe tires to the Metzelers which come stock on the Bonneville T100 and that definitely improved traction I thought (or else I just got better at braking). I wouldn’t let that put you off.
On the freeway, the Bonnie’s fine and will easily and comfortably cruise at 80 or more as is your wont. You’ll have to crouch to minimize wind resistance occasionally though; ‘ makes you feel like a cafe racer Accessory windshields are available if it bothers you (I never bothered). My only real complaints are that the bike’s kinda heavy (and feels it), the suspension can be punishing and the seat isn’t great. There’s no storage space under the seat and you need to use an Allen key to take it off! Also, it’s fine for an hour or so, but a 2 plus hour ride will leave you squirming. Pretty much all stock motorcycle seats are like that though; it’s just a case of degree (the Nighthawk seat was better). Triumph and others have alternative seats available (for a price of course). All in all though, I thoroughly enjoyed owning and riding my beautiful aluminium silver Triumph Bonneville and I don’t regret buying it whatsoever.
I recently sold the Bonnie (with 25K on the clock) and bought a Suzuki GSX650F. My justification for buying the Suzi was that I needed a bike primarily for my freeway commute with occasional week-end rides with the Wife as pillion. I also didn’t want to spend a lot of money on a bike that I would be replacing in a year or so (due to the high mileage I do). For my given criteria, I couldn’t wish for a better bike as it’s very comfortable, with good fuel economy (~50 mpg), fantastic road holding and can go like stink if you so choose. It definitely feels “safer”, lighter (although it isn’t much), and more refined at speed than the Bonnie and I can take the sweepers a lot faster than I could on the Bonnie.
That said, I think weaponzero (above) has a point though, with it’s I-4 engine, it just feels more like an “appliance” than a motorcycle if you know what I mean. A fantastic tool for the job, comfortable, planted, and very fast if you want it to be, but bland. I know that sounds contradictory, but it’s what I feel about it. I’m not a sport rider and don’t like scaring myself, so the “fast” part doesn’t particularly push my buttons (although I have my moments). With the Bonnie, I felt I had something special, the Suzi, I can’t get emotional about Maybe it’s just the novelty of motorcycling wearing off some, or maybe it’s because I’m an old fart who thinks that bikes should look and feel like a Bonneville or a Sportster
The other bike I was considering (after much research) was the DL-650 V-Strom but when I went to the Suzuki dealer, the GSX650F just felt more “right” to me. V-Strom owners love ’em though and they can be hard to find at the dealers due to their popularity.
I’ve never ridden a Triumph Tiger but have sat on one and yes, it is a big and tall bike (I’m 6′ with 31″ leg).
Whatever you get, have fun, be safe and thanks for reading my ramblings
September 12, 2008 at 8:02 am #12047MattParticipantI’m not refering to the weight of the Tiger. Frankly, at 470pounds dry, it is a lightweight compared to other bikes like ith (The 1200GS is a pig!). All the reviews I’ve read say once under way it is a very light bike.
I really liked it for all the reasons you stated. But I sat on one in the dealership and I just couldn’t feel comfortable on a bike that physically large. I’m 6 foot and I couldn’t flat foot it. Even with my feet on the pegs the over all feeling was of being on a very large vehicle. If you are used to a smaller bike (such as the nighthawk, or in my case the ZZR-250) it really can be a night and day difference.
I have no such issues on the Bonnie, Versys, Katana 750, Z750, or any host of other sub litre bikes I’ve sat on.
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“The two seconds between ‘Oh S**!’ and the crash isn’t a lot of practice time.”September 12, 2008 at 11:15 am #12049WeaponZeroParticipantThe nighthawk has the worst brakes of any bike on the market. It’s the only streetbike being sold that still has drum brakes in both the front and the rear. Even its competitors in the 250cc class at least have a disc up front. So any bike you get will have much stronger brakes.
So what you want is a touring bike that’s comfortable enough with its off-road prowess to tackle very light off-road duty such as torn up roads, dirt and gravel roads. The Tiger definately fits that bill but I don’t know if jumping from a 250cc bike to a 1000cc bike is all that great of an idea, but only YOU can decide for yourself.
Other bikes to consider based on what you’re looking for: Suzuki DL650 V-Strom, Kawasaki Versys, Triumph Scrambler (essentially a bonneville that comes with suspension setup for off-road and knobby tires). Any of the bikes in BMW’s GS series work as well. Aprilia used to make a bike called the Pegaso that would also suit your needs but it is no longer being produced.
September 12, 2008 at 5:26 pm #12061RupmiscParticipantWeaponZero, I’ll look at the scrambler. I really do want to be able to ride comfortably for more than an hour, but I’ll also check out the scrambler. The street triple looks like fun, but I really wonder if I don’t want something that may be a little less naked at 40 or 50 degrees f. Also love the idea of ABS.
If I go naked, I’ll confess to being fond of the triumph triple or the mini monster. Not perfect, but pretty cool and very maneuverable. If I ride a Tiger, I’ll report.
As to Nighthawk brakes, I don’t know about worst, but certainly poor and certainly different. Will need to completely relearn braking when switch to disks.
September 12, 2008 at 6:07 pm #12065AndrewParticipanti rode a Nighthawk in class and there is a huge difference between it’s brakes and the brakes on my Ninja.
September 13, 2008 at 1:48 am #12091megaspazParticipantI have to say, the speed triple’s on sexah beast on wheels. wouldn’t mind one of those in my collection… daytona version mebbe…
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If there’s anything more important than my ego
around, I want it caught and shot now…September 14, 2008 at 3:58 pm #12141RupmiscParticipantWhat do you know. Someone listened. The new Street Triple R adds adjustable shocks, better brakes. Still more upright than the Daytona. Now if someone would just add ABS.
By the way, the Speed triple is a liter bike. The Street Triple is a 675, like the Daytona.
If I could only trust myself.
September 14, 2008 at 7:58 pm #12145RabParticipantThe drum brakes on the NH 250 are certainly not as good as disk brakes, but are adequate for the bike’s weight and power.
I don’t think you need to worry too much about the more powerful brakes on your next bike, just use them gingerly until you get a feel for them (which won’t take long).
If you go with a Triumph Speed (especially) or Street Triple, I think you’ll need to worry more about wheelies than stoppies.
September 15, 2008 at 2:48 am #12164RupmiscParticipantAs there was no Street Triple, I test rode a Speed Triple. It certainly had way more power than I was used to, but I didn’t feel out of control. My lack of confidence was actually lower at no speed or low speed when the bike was heavier than I am used to.
Is the wheelie comment more directed at the larger engine size or at the Triumphs especially. Would the Street Triple at 675cc me more likely to cause problems than, say, a Ducati 696?
September 15, 2008 at 5:50 am #12173RabParticipantI’ve haven’t ridden any of these three bikes, so I can’t answer your last question. The two Triumph’s (especially the speed triple) however, do have a reputation for being easy to wheelie (google it). They don’t call them hooligan bikes for nothing.
A lot of “bigger than beginner” bikes are deceptive as they can be as gentle as lambs when you keep the revs low, but when you twist the throttle, they’ll go into orbit.
All 3 of these bikes get great reviews, but going from a Nighthawk 250 to one of those Triumphs is quite a step-up the performance ladder.
Read some reviews and decide for yourself.
September 18, 2008 at 1:58 am #12300RupmiscParticipantRode a 696 again today. Back roads, 30-50mph. Short stint on road with traffic. The demo had the gel seat, and aftermarket pipes (carbon fiber, Italian name). While not a sport bike, I noticed some weight on my hands, and that it was slightly more effort to raise my head to level (just something new to get used to I suppose). I liked having more power, especially in traffic, but can see that speed control and braking will be something to adjust to. Disk brakes are nice, but clearly deserve respect.
The bike felt very solid at suburban speeds. I had to give it more throttle, from a stop, than on my nighthawk, but the clutch was nice. Good thing that the hand controls fit my hand, as they cannot be adjusted. The instruments were OK, but sometimes seemed a little low. I liked having a button to push to turn off the turn signal. I would think about replacing the mirrors.
The bike felt more serious than the nighthawk. At 20mph, it is easier to throw the nighthawk around in a slalom, but i suspect that more than 10 minutes on the bike would change that. I liked it very much, and am considering buying one. The bike isn’t perfect, and I can always wait until spring to buy a second bike. But, I am impatient, and want to enjoy my last six weeks of decent weather. So I’m thinking about it.
While I think, I wanted to respond to some kind folks who responded to my questions, and ask other questions.
Matt: Yeah, you were completely right about the Tiger. I could barely get my feet down, and it is clearly too much for me now. As to the Versys or V-Strom I would consider either. The Versys is very comfortable, yet promises to be ridable on a highway (and I would like to take day trips). The V-Strom is available with ABS except I can’t find one, and the bigger V-Strom (?) wasn’t that comfortable (if my memory is correct).
Rab, I am also thinking about a Bonneville (although I’d probably be less authentic and more liquid). I sat on a Scrambler today and next to the Ducati, the Bonneville is heavy. Maybe that’s a good thing. I love the way the Bonnie looks, but then I always loved the Great Escape.
I confess to being torn. For trips around my area (30-50mph roads) the ducati would be fun. The question is, if I want to ride 90 miles, up into New Hampshire, to visit my daughter at school and return, will the Ducati be OK? The trip might include some miles on US93 (although I see motorcycles regularly on 93, mostly cruisers many doing 90, I wonder if I’ll ever be comfortable there on anything-and don’t plant to rush). I guess I need one bike to travel (panniers and more weight-when I am ready-not yet), and one for local fun. In the meantime, is the Ducati just wrong for the highway as was suggested above? Would the Bonnie be better? Sorry, but I just am not a cruiser person–standard or slightly forward.
This is certainly a mumble, and a long one. I like the Ducati and realize that no one motorcycle can do everything i want. So, given that I want a next step bike, I’ll listen to any comments either pro or con on the Duc-or anything else.
September 18, 2008 at 3:45 am #12306AndrewParticipantI’m sure the Ducati will be able to go highway speeds and go 90 if you need it too.
September 18, 2008 at 3:58 am #12307RupmiscParticipantIt will certainly go 90 (120-130 top speed, but I am not going there). I’m more worried about stability, and comfort, in highway conditions. Wind? Trucks? It’s a light weight naked bike. Ok for a day trip of 100 miles each way?
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