[eon]

Welcome to the site. I would suggest making training an integral part of your riding schedule and not just as a means to pass the test. There is SO much more to learn than what you get on a basic class. I’ve tried to take training whenever I can and it’s helped me along enormously and made me a safer and more competent rider. Plus it is enormously satisfying to leave your buddies in the dust despite only riding at 80% of your ability (always leave yourself a safety margin).

Good luck with the bike hunt.

[eon]

LOL….it’s fun to watch you swaying between the different bikes out there, and interesting to read. Strangely I’ve been focussed on just the one bike now for over a year (Versys), but the money gods have been conspiring to keep me from it. But everything I read only confirms my decision it is the right bike for me. Well that and a KLX250S.

[eon]

I’ve never owned the Ninja but I’m pretty certain it could cruise at 70-80 all day long. I own a big heavy maxi scoot with a lower power to weight ratio than the ninja and I can (and have) cruised all day long at those speeds (admittedly mine is 500cc but I’m not sure that is significant).

Hmm, there is BMWs F650GS & G650GS. The link below may give you some ideas.
http://www.oldguy.us/easy-riding/bg-models-standards.php

[eon]

I agee with Madjak, take the class and that will give you a better feel for what your wants/needs are going to be. Sorry to tell you but your previous experience doesn’t really count, but then I think you knew that already

Motorcycle Superstore is a very reputable store so you will have no problems buying from them (just be careful though of items marked as ‘available’, that really means their 3rd party supplier may or may not have them). NewEnough.com is another great store.

[eon]

Welcome Sam and congratulations on trying to start out correctly and asking for advice. Good news is you have lots of options out there. I will say you could start out on a Concours but you would be making life very difficult for yourself, and I’m not sure there is a need for that. As the others have mentioned it’s the low speed stuff that will catch you out and as a student I’m not sure you want the expense of fixing a dropped Connie. Not to mention the insurance (might be okay but I kind of doubt it).

To be comfortable on an 8 hour ride I would suggest looking for something with a standard sitting position with a good windshield. Windshields (and bags) can be added so look for a bike with the “standard” seating position. There are a lot of 650cc bikes in this category that are still relatively newbie friendly so this would be a good choice I think. Something like the VStrom 650 or the Versys would be perfect. The 2010 Versys had a facelift but there are still 2009 models out there in dealers selling for $4500 ~ $5000 if you look hard enough. I’m sure this has a knock on effect on the 2nd hand market as well so there should be screaming deals out there. These bikes are also taller which may be a good thing given your height.

[eon]

If I were in your shoes I would get the the DS version of that bike, but that’s mainly because I hope to buy one myself this year One thing I have heard time and time again is that guys who start off riding dirt learn reflexes that will stand them in good stead on the street. On dirt you will ride beyond the limits of your traction and will fall off but hopefully it won’t hurt too much. But you will learn what it feels like to be at the limit and how to control it. Falling off on the street hurts too much to learn that skill but there will come a time when you hit gravel/sand/ice/oil when those reflexes could save you a world of pain.

From the roads around you it sounds like you would have access to places where you could really have some fun on a DS. Compare that to riding down the interstate on a Ninja 650. Honestly, there is nothing more boring than interstate riding. If you could persuade your friends to get into dirt bikes you would that would be a blast. But if not the SF model above would be a great start.

[eon]

My 500cc scooter does okay at highway speeds but there is certainly no oomph left for quick passes at 80mph. Not sure there is any need for quick passes at that speed anyway, expect a chat with the boys in blue if you are in the habit doing those speeds. But I do feel it lacking at even 50mph passes. I have to plan my overtake carefully which can be frustrating at times, but it’s not a significant problem. But as others have mentioned engine size is a poor measure of performance. My 500cc scoot has to lug ~14lb per hp. The Ninja 250 only has to pull around 10lb per hp. Big difference even to a 250 model.

But I think a large part of it comes down to how you ride. Almost all of my miles are fun miles on twisty country roads where hp is not really a concern. If I was commuting on the interstate it might be a problem, if I was doing lots of touring it would definitely be a problem. But after 2 years it’s only really been a minor inconvenience.

[eon]

Here goes my 101 explanation
If you’ve ever ridden a bicycle with gears then you understand how cars and bikes work. On a bicycle you have the option to stop peddling while the chain jumps sprockets (otherwise bad things might happen), on a car/bike this is what the clutch does. It disconnects the power of the engine from the wheels while it changes gear. Trials is right in that it can be a hard skill to learn but it soon becomes 2nd nature and makes the driving/riding much more involved and therefore satisfying.

I think his bias is showing though when saying standard is always better. If you think about it, the fact you have 5 or 6 gears means you are almost always in a sub-optimal gear. If you accelerate from 0-60 working through the gears, for each one there is only an instant where it is the perfect gearing ratio. A Continuously Variable Transmission (CVT, or the rubber band Trials mentions) is allegedly always in the perfect gearing ratio. This rubber band sits on a cone and it alters the ratio by moving up and down the cone (the continuously variable part). There are other inefficiencies however that hamper the design. But consider this, in the early 90’s the top team in Formula 1 at the time experimented with a CVT design. Allegedly their number 2 driver was able to knock several seconds off his lap time. Since this wasn’t a Ferrari, the FIA banned it!

Automatic transmissions are making a revival again, even on bikes. Honda seems to be developing at least 3 different types of auto transmissions (not all are CVT) and these bikes are hitting the showrooms today. Time will tell if they take off but I’ve read at least one moto hack ask what’s so great about having to shift.

[eon]

Here is the link to that study I was referencing. Get’s a bit technical in places but I found it interesting and it certainly made me alter the way I ride.

http://www.network.mag-uk.org/smidsy/How%20Close%20is%20Too%20Close.pdf

[eon]

I find the post to be almost exactly opposite of what I have read and believe to be true. Google SMIDSY and look around and see what you find. I read a scientific study that examined WHY people don’t see bikes (despite it being broad daylight and plenty of onlookers seeing the bike in hundreds of car/bike collisions). Short answer is our brains are not wired to see the small profile of a bike WHEN HEADED DIRECTLY TOWARDS you. Any lateral movement is picked up instantly but when on a collision course there is little movement to pick up (apart from a gradual increase in size). A good example of this would be a car starts to pull out but only then sees the bike, panics and brakes. That small movement by the car was enough for the bike to move laterally against the horizon and suddenly the brain picks out the threat.

The study also looked at military research (who are not short of research dollars) who WANT to sneak up on things. Heading directly towards your prey is the best way to achieve this. This behavior is also found in the animal world who have millions of years of evolution to perfect this art (or IE if that’s your thing).

I would suggest your “move to right side of lane” is what gets their attention, not the aim at him approach. When I see someone positioning to turn in front of me I do a gentle weave in my lane, but also do as Gary says and check my speed, cover my brakes and prepare to stop (I may even start to brake to begin the weight transfer and to alert anyone behind me I may be stopping).

And this advice is worth what you paid for it.

[eon]

That third one looks very interesting, though I might need a pillow on that seat!

[eon]

That last bit gave me a good laugh. Been so long since I did any physics classes I can’t disprove it but if ever there was a candidate for old wives (or old man’s) tales this is it. You really think the earths magnetic force is significantly different between your bench and the ground?

[eon]

I find the KLR to be an odd choice as ‘the bike I liked best’. This bike was on my radar for a while so I can appreciate the appeal, but it really excels at nothing. Unless you are planning trips of over a thousand miles including some rough terrain it’s probably not the best bike to have. Plenty of passionate owners out there and they seem to feel the later versions (with more plastic) have been a step backwards from the more offroad oriented earlier versions. Everyone I spoke to recommended a getting a good 2nd hand one for around $3k.

[eon]

Current plan is to be there for 2 days mid June, but that may change to July to accommodate another rider. So much to do before then, like get me a real bike!

[eon]

The classroom portion is very important, probably the most important part of the whole class. But it is necessarily not as in depth as a book dedicated to how to survive on the streets. The classroom portion would consist of watching a video that tried to emphasize some point and then as a group we would discuss it. The idea is to get you thinking about certain scenarios and not just present you with an answer. In real life there is frequently no one right answer, there are pros and cons to each decision you make. You can download the BRC booklet and see what it talks about in there (the videos just back it up). Off the top of my head it covers SEE (Search, Evaluate, Execute), pre-ride safety checks, lane positions, ladder of risk and probably many other topics.

I found the classroom portion boring as I read everything before hand so I wasn’t having to think for myself. That may have put me at a disadvantage, I’m not sure, but either way I cannot recommend strongly enough Proficient Motorcycling. It really highlights all the potential pitfalls out there that can catch you out and ways to mitigate the risk. Kind of freaked me out at the beginning to be honest.

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