[Amoryl]

best advice I’ve ever gotten, “never pet a burning dog” you may not think it’s very helpful here, but it’s good advice everywhere!

so where DID you end up? china?

Matt’s right, man, practice makes more perfecter….practice makes perfectness….er….practice makes perfect! yes!

[Amoryl]

I go through weird moments now and then, and I’m never really entirely sure what causes it, but the result is that i temporarily lose my “don’t be a jackass” filter. and I say something that comes off as being a jerk (of which everyone is now and then) and it usually sparks a reply in kind. and then we man up, we say we’re sorry for being a jerk, and shockingly, we go back to being adults. so…I hope you’ve got no hard feelings, and I won’t either.

as for those types being caught dead here? yes they do. there’s fairly constantly a new kid looking for justification of getting that “busa” for his first bike. we try to talk him out of it, but most of the time we know it’s a pretty foregone conclusion and he’s just looking for someone to say “yes!”

there ARE a few who’ve been talked down from the 4cyl ledge, who’ve stumbled upon here and the result is a dousing in cold water.

I think thats why I lashed out at you. you, unlike most of the idiots out there who start out on a huge bike are a responsible adult, well spoken, and safety minded. the rest, we can more or less dismiss, especially if they’re full of unintelligible leetspeak. and it was my general fear that someone on the margin who could go either way will see your posts and say “hey, he’s smart, responsible, mature, and HE started on this huge bike” and in that sense, you’re more “dangerous” than the idiot talking about stoppies and biking in shorts and a doo-rag. but it WAS wrong of me to attribute responsibility on your part to other people’s choices. mostly it was my knee jerk reaction about liter bikes.

Elwood’s gotten less flack than you, yes. but if you look at his posts it’s full of little lessons on why it likely would have been a better idea to start small, and he actually DID intend to start out with a 250 till some jackass dealer talked him out of it. that and when you get into the higher cc bikes, there’s a world of difference between cruisers and sportsbikes. 99% of elwood’s issues are based around it’s size and weight, with big fat tires and a heavy turn. if he gooses the throttle, it’ll jump forward, but more like a ninja 650 than….well…yours. you goose the throttle and you’ll take off like a rocket. cruisers are generally pretty underpowered speed wise for their displacement. but damn if they can’t tow a trailer

clearly this is all your fault for not having lots and lots of trouble on your new bike

[Amoryl]

ya know? the 650 just doesn’t do it for me…it looks too…i dunno, space age….for a cruiser IMO. same reason i don’t like the Venox. but i WILL admit it’s a pretty sharp looking bike

[Amoryl]

hmmm thats really something to think about. I’d always assumed the improved performance was at the expense of power…makes one wonder why this isn’t stock?

[Amoryl]

I’ve fiddled with maps while driving, which is clearly not safe…I’d kill myself and someone else, likely, if I tried to do that on a bike

[Amoryl]

I sincerely hope you don’t think that I expressed hope that you’d have a horrible accident or the like. I don’t. I don’t even hope for the actual idiots doing stoppies and such in rushhour traffic to have one…not seriously anyway.

[Amoryl]

yep, I know everything. HAH!

my post came off a bit…jerk? condescending? holier than thou? well…yeah likely.

honestly it’s not you, it’s me. (man, sounds like I’m breaking up with you or something…) or rather it’s the less responsible idiots out there. clearly you’re more mature about your new bike than 99% of the guys who start out on liter bikes, and I apologize for dismissing that.

I was mostly coming off of having experienced the other types who recommend dangerously overpowered bikes as fine for beginners, and lopped you in among those who’ll give young idiots dangerous ideas. I did say that it’s not your responsibility, nor is it even possible to keep idiots from being idiots. but thats pretty overshadowed by my basic claim that you’ll get some kid killed (yeah that was a wrong way for me to put something, I admit that) the whole rant (and yes it’s clearly a rant) started as something and spiraled out into something else, without there ever properly being a differentiation. in the end I was ranting about those idiots who tell people massively unsafe advice thats likely to get others killed, and dumped it all on you.

that being said, I still cringe when I hear someone getting a liter bike for their first bike.

[Amoryl]

actually they said ALMOST 200 miles, the little side blurb of the specs list

AlphaSports GV250
Suggested base price: $3599
Wheelbase: 68.7 in.
Wet weight: 383.2 lbs.
GVWR: 775 lbs.
Seat height: 25 in.
Fuel capacity: 3.7 gal.
Average range: 180 miles <

---

Engine type: air/oil-cooled four-stroke V-twin
Final drive: chain
Front suspension: 35mm stanchions
Rear suspension: 2 dampers, adjustable for preload
Wheels: cast aluminum, 16 in. front, 15 in. rear
Handlebar width: 31.5 in.

which’ll put it at….180 / 3.7…..carry the one….square of the hypotenuse is equal to the…. = 48.648648648648648648648648648649 which we can go ahead and say 49mpg

now…the question is, is their range including the reserve?

[Amoryl]

keep in mind that as a first time rider EVER, especially if you’ve no history of driving a car, you’re not going to get that $20 a month insurance rate, not even close. and there’s a very real possibility they won’t cover you at all. I’d not even considered the whole insurance thing (being as I’ve not had to worry about qualifying for insurance in years) in the end that might remove the entire issue.

[Amoryl]

as I’m somewhat obsessive when getting into a hobby, I ran out and joined a metric crap-ton of forums, several beginner friendly forums (this one and BBO are my favorites) and several cruiser specific forums. I’ve left most of them due to some hideously horrible advice these “experts” will give newbies. and I tend to take what they say with a grain of salt. regret is a funny thing…I know a lot of people who SHOULD regret a lot of the mistakes they made and don’t. and most of these guys who say they started out on a huge bike and never had any problems and that 250’s are for babies and whatnot are either full of crap or their ego’s have erased or transfered blame of their mistakes. when in doubt just check some of their prior posts and see how many times they “Had to Lay it Down” lay it down is a fancy word for “I didn’t know what I was doing, so I figured I should crash it before someone else does” and there’s a chance that had they started with something smaller they may have learned how to respond in such a way that they could have actually stopped in time instead.

I see those threads full of “I started on XXX bike and it wasn’t too big/glad I did…” and it makes me cringe, not only because I feel personally that you’re just begging to have a nasty accident before your time, but every time one of those guys truthfully or not posts a thread or enters a topic it’s basically giving some idiot new kid an excuse to say “He did it, so can I!” now some you’ll never be able to convince, and some’ll never try but some in the middle will weigh the pros and cons and yours might be the one that tips the scale. and next thing we know there’s another dead kid and a totaled Busa. it’s ultimately not your responsibility, and I’m not trying to imply that it’s your fault some kid doesn’t know what he’s getting into. actually I’m more arguing those other idiots who’ve somehow managed to not get themselves killed (though I’d bet the left elderberry that they’ve “layed it down” more than they’re admitting) saying “yeah lil dude! a Busa’s totally a good beginner bike”

I’ve stated before in other threads on other forums defending the choice to start smaller. are we always right? no. can we say definitively that you cannot learn/thrive on a larger first bike? no, though historically the numbers will be on our side. we’re not always right, but our advice is generally not going to be a prime factor in your untimely death, and if you DO die on a smaller bike, the chances are the same situation on a liter bike would’ve resulted in the same (assuming you lived that long in the first place) whereas those guys on the liter bike forums advice which is often “buy big, buy fast!” will. look at the statistics, the liter bikes under the young inexperienced rider has an overly large percentage of fatalities.

personally I hope things work out for you and that it continues to get more comfortable and easier for you. and I hope that you don’t one day dissapear from the forum, leaving us to wonder if you got tired of us, or if you became a statistic.

[Amoryl]

wow thats outstanding

I’ve read about modding the sprockets for better mileage, its basically putting larger sprockets in right?

my concern about that is doesn’t it reduce the effective horsepower? I can’t imagine it gives such an improvement in mileage without sacrificing some power. and whichever 250 I get I’ll need for it to do a passable attempt on the highway (comfort is optional) which means I’ll need it to do somewhere between 60 and 70 period, not in comfort, not as good as my goldwing (which doesn’t exist so it either will, or it won’t, or both at once…shroedingers motorcycle?) just can it get up there and can it stay there?

[Amoryl]

it would be the motorcycle cruiser’s 250cc bike match up http://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/roadtests/250cc_cruiser_comparison/index.html

everyone seemed to like the GV 250 though they’ve got it listed as an Alpha Sports…which might be some name it’s marketed under, but it never turns up in google searches or bike trader searches under alpha sports (their naked bikes and sporty bikes do though) they were a bit lean on ALL the bikes milage, however.

edit: ok i just noticed I linked the same site you did a few posts earlier…either I’m doing my math wrong or you are, because they it came out for me that the gv250’s averaging 49ish mpg.

of course I always want more direct response than what I would get in a magazine article or the like by people who don’t own the bike in question and only ride one for a weekend or something so they can do a write up

[Amoryl]

the first year or so of being a new driver is the most dangerous time for both you and other people on the road. I’d strongly advise against going straight into a motorcycle for going on the road. no matter how careful you think you are, no matter how much you think you’ll be a safe rider, the fact is at 16 and new to riding you are the least capable to drive/ride responsibly, you don’t have the experience to properly assess situations before they become incidentses, the reactions to respond instantly when they become incidences, nor the skills to respond in the correct way. and very very few 16yr olds I’ve met, myself and my friends (16ish years ago) included are mature enough to handle the signifigant step up in risk from a car to a motorcycle. especially if you’re even remotely considering skipping the whole “car” thing. I was always a cautious kinda driver, timid even when I was learning, and I know now that thats likely gotten me into questionable situations that an experienced driver never would have. my friends drove like retarded lemur monkeys, and that got them into a LOT of problems. I see tons and tons of younger drivers not paying attention, driving too fast, ignoring rules of the road, or simply driving really really unpredictably due to being young, distracted, and inexperienced. all more reason to start with 4 wheels and a cage around you.

I may sound harsh, I may sound like some old fart complaining about “you darn kids” but history is on my side. start out in a car, learn how to drive, and deal with the idiots on the road in some level of protection, THEN start thinking about the bike. the same reasons we recommend people start on a smaller bike, but to an even greater extreme. most people here we assume already have experience on the road dealing with traffic, the rules of the road, and such. then start out on a small bike to learn the basic handling of a motorcycle, then move on to riding in traffic. but STARTING on a bike means you’ll be on the road learning how to handle your new bike, learning how to handle traffic, and learning how to implement the rules of the road all at once. this is more than just walking and chewing gum, my friend. this is walking on a tightrope while chewing gum and spinning plates on a stick balanced on your chin.

if you really really need to scratch that bike itch, like the guy above said, start out on a dirt bike, you’ll learn a GREAT deal of the basics of riding a bike (though not really road riding) such as throttle and gear control, breaking, and most importantly how to handle dirt/sand/gravel and once you get those down pat, especially since in the meantime you’ll be learning how to handle traffic in the car, you’ll be that much more ready to transition over to a street bike.

[Amoryl]

actually they didn’t bash it at all. in fact it beat out the V-Star 250 in their beginner bike ride off…but they listed the fuel tank size and the average miles per tank, and it put the GV250 in about last place at approx 45-49mpg.

which was kinda a big issue for me, though the same site put the V-Star 250 at the low 60’s so it seems they were either being pretty conservative, or more likely they were blowing through gas a lot faster by doing lots of short fast moves and start and stops
which seems to be in line with the testing they were doing…

[Amoryl]

well thats better than the 49ish the other site was giving it. I could likely deal with 55-65ish…especially if the virago/V-Star’s 70-80 is a bit wishful thinking…

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