- This topic has 85 replies, 22 voices, and was last updated 15 years, 4 months ago by RoboChrist.
Ready to be flamed…
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September 16, 2008 at 4:23 pm #12245WeaponZeroParticipant
All I can tell you is this. At one point, before I bought my first bike, I was considering getting a used ’98 Honda CBR900RR for my first bike. The CBR900RR of that generation, just so youre aware, makes 123hp at the crank; more than most budget oriented 4 cylinder cars, on a bike that weighs roughly 400 lbs. The only thing that stopped me from getting it was the fact that my mom’s home and everything she owned had just been destroyed in a hurricane and I chose to spend the money I’d been saving on helping her out instead.
I do know now that if I had bought that bike, I may not be alive now because it is definately NOT a beginner bike. I congratulate you on your bike purchase but I just hope you understand that, as Ben as pointed out in other posts, if you start out on a bike that’s too powerful and too heavy, there are skills fundamental to motorcycling that you may not ever be able to master.
Now, I do disagree with the “all beginning riders must start out on 250s” mentality that gets tossed around on this forum, but I still do draw a line somewhere. And I do believe that you have not only crossed that line with your bike purchase, but did a 100 yard dash past it.
Do I know people who started out on 1000s and lived to tell the tale? Yes. And Many of them are still riding today and are expert riders, one of them is even a riding instructor now. But they all regretted it in the long run.
There are people who will tell you that “a 250 has all the power you will ever need.” I disagree with that because I understand that motorcycling itself is not about needs. It is about wants, and desires, and being passionate about a hobby. It is about getting an adrenaline rush that some people may not be able to get on a bike that has “all the power you need.” Just be careful. You bought a bike that someone with your skill level has no business on. You may be fine, you may have to pay for extensive damages to the bike, and you may be injured. Only time will tell. But maturity has nothing to do with the bike you should start out on.
The bottom line: Learning to ride on that thing, you WILL develop “bad habits” to compensate for the fact that you can’t learn to do things the right way. Those “bad habits” may get you killed or discourage you from motorcycling alltogether. A confident rider is always having fun. You may not ever be confident on it.
Take the MSF beginner course using their bike, then go take the advanced course using yours. You will see a difference. You simply won’t be able to perform some of the techniques they teach you on your own bike.
September 16, 2008 at 5:14 pm #12248eonParticipantI have to say I totally disagree with the marital reason for buying the bigger bike. That is a lame excuse in my book (and yes, I am a married man). If you want to get the bigger bike then by all means get it, but if the reason you are learning on a more powerful bike is to avoid an argument with the wife then that is pretty weak. You know that learning on a bigger bike carries more risk than learning on a smaller one. Are you really saying your wife is happier with that risk than you taking a $200 hit after reselling your learner bike? Or are you saying you are content to let your wife think a bike is a bike is a bike, avoid an argument and get the bike you really want?
September 16, 2008 at 9:00 pm #12254Clenzer72ParticipantRanette,
I appologize if you feel any of us our yelling, or giving you a “bad time”.
It all stems from our passion as safe motorcyclists. When we see another in our community that may be making decisions that could potentially harm themselves or others we all get very worked up. It’s only out of love (no-homo….lol) that these kinds of discussions get so heated. You take on the deffensive because it seems as if we hare attacking you, we get “loud” because it seems your not listening to reason. Hopefully you can prove us wrong, learn quality skills on that big bike and have a fulfilling hobby as a motorcyclist. Do us all a favor, wear all your gear all the time (ATGATT) to maximize your safety. even at 20mph you can get seriously hurt.To go back to practicing emergency stops for a second……you will learn a really good exercise for these during the MSF, and since you have a “trainer” you can practice these at lengths. Basicallly the instructor stands at the end of a long straight facing you. in front of him is a row of cones acting as a wall. (There are a few more cones around but you can get the idea without me having to explain where they are). You are to accelerate towards the instructor. The instructor has three commands, Right arm up, left arm up, and both arms up. When both arms are up you brake as hard as you can, left arm you swerve around him to your right, right arm you swerve around him to your left. This is a great exercise that really pushes those emergency reflexes.
At http://www.bayarearidersforum.com there is a section called crash analysis (there may be others like this on other forums too) that people post their crashes and discuss the causes of them and ways to prevent in the future. Read those. they will help you understand what you’re up against out there on the streets.We all care, and that’s the only reason were on this forum, to support and guide new riders…..Ben did a great job on this site and am thankfull to him. I spent countless hours on here gathering information and knowledge i couldn’t find so easily available in other places.
I am a firm believer you cannot learn some of the fundamentals on a large bike as a beginner as you can on a smaller bike. but you can do whatever you want…..that’s why this is america and not another country that has restricted licensing requirements. (less than 400ccs?? the first yeaer or too).
Have fun, be safe, think smart.
September 17, 2008 at 2:46 am #12266ranetteParticipantFirst of all, I do appreciate all of the replies. When I started this thread I expected much of it, hence the title of the thread. I only reacted with any passion to two posts. Once simply to say that all caps, screaming, even one word, is not necessary. If anything it makes most of us listen less, and I was pretty gentle with that as I realized it was only one word. I reacted very negatively to one post, most of you would have reacted similarly. When somebody basically writes that either you’re going to harm yourself or if you do manage to somehow survive, writing about your progress might possess a kid to go out and do something stupid and kill themselves. I’m sorry that is not caring, that is not passion about safety, that is simply idiotic to say and I reacted. Although I would not say this about the majority of people who contributed to this thread I can say that I feel one or two people would take some small satisfaction if I were to damage my bike or even myself. Bottom line is some people have an opinion and any occurrence that might support that opinion is a positive for them.
In my initial post I wrote that I understood that I was going against the reasoning of most posters on this site. I understood that and said if you want to call me an idiot go ahead. I also said that if anyone was interested in my progress I’d be happy to let everyone know how it was going. The initial responses questioned my decision but wished me luck and were interested in how things progressed. However it seems as if things are moving in the direction of criticizing me rather than concern for me and being interested in how I might be doing. Oddly enough the tenor of the thread seemed to change when I mentioned that I felt I was making progress and feeling more comfortable every day(see the last line of the previous paragraph).
A couple of things to keep in mind. Although most of you would poo poo scooter experience many would not. I have spent the better part of this summer, according to my scooter’s odometer about 1400 miles worth, on two wheels. 150cc might not sound like much, but the bike can move faster than you might think. The state of Vermont classifies it as a motorcycle and I needed to get a full motorcycle endorsement in order to ride it. Does this qualify me to get on a large bike, no, but many of the skills are similar. Another thing to keep in mind is that I live in an area that is very sparsely populated compared to most of you. Certainly there are cars, but it is mostly country riding and we’ve been keeping a very leisurely pace. It is a perfect place to learn how to ride even if you might feel I am not on the perfect bike to learn on.
One other question. Elwood1960 seems to be a pretty respected senior poster here, we are of similar age and he started on a HD Sportster 883. Maybe one step down from mine but they certainly reside in the same neighborhood. I believe he’s been on it for about a year, learning in and around Miami, more traffic and more idiots texting while driving. Was he as reckless as I am? Will he never learn more than rudimentary riding skills?
The bottom line is that I fully intend to become a very capable and safe rider. I will take the steps necessary and will continue to ride within my ability. I will take the beginners MSF class and then continue on with the intermediate and advanced classes, and yes even on the scooter I am an ATGATT kind of guy. If it takes me longer to do it on a larger bike so be it. Case closed.
Some people on this board seem to think I am reckless and might even have a death wish. I can assure you that is in no way true. My last words in this thread, though probably not on this board will be from Lou Reed, “My House” from his classic 1982 album The Blue Mask,
I’ve really got a lucky life
my writing, my motorcycle and my wife
And to top it all off a spirit of pure poetry
is living in this stone and wood house with meSeptember 17, 2008 at 3:19 pm #12278MattNGuestJust as a note… the gt 1000 is 407 lbs dry and 92 hp.
It is a bigger bike… but its not your typical liter bike. Actually probably a better choice than most 600cc sportbikes…
Hi btw, first post great site btw.. i’ve been reading/ lurking for a few months now.
September 17, 2008 at 4:08 pm #12282eonParticipantI wish you all the best in learning how to ride and certainly do not want you or the bike to come to harm. However I do wonder if you are doing as much as you can to learn safely. It is hard to get all of your reasoning into a post like this but based on what has been said I have the following comments.
If you would have bought a “beginner bike” but for the wife, then you have compromised your safety with the very first person who tried to influence you. Ironically, the person who has most interest in keeping you safe.
I agree that riding a 150cc scooter is valuable experience but do you? It sounds like you have ridden 1400 miles on it without any training or coaching. There is no difference between a 150cc scooter and a 1000cc ducati when it comes to lane positioning, cornering technique, braking etc etc. But it appears you treated it as less than a motorcycle and simply got on it and started riding.
Why did you have to learn about correct wrist positioning in this thread? If you have been on motorcycle threads for any length of time you will have heard about Proficient Motorcycling, it talks about that in there. You can download and read the MSF Basic Class booklet and read it before your class. It talks about that in there. Why did your experienced friend not tell you about this? Is he teaching you bad habits? Would you know? He may be the safest rider out there but after 30 years riding can he relate to beginner issues? You may learn a great deal from him but it should not stop you from learning from the professionals.
Safety does not begin or end with the MSF classes. We can all learn more. And when learning we will make mistakes. On a more powerful machine your margin of error is smaller than mine so you need to take that much more care.
September 17, 2008 at 4:09 pm #12284megaspazParticipant92 hp still a whole lotta horses for a bike. i wonder what the torque is… oh with ducati make sure to add about lbs for the battery… they’re known to fine print on the dry weight *does not include battery.
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If there’s anything more important than my ego
around, I want it caught and shot now…September 17, 2008 at 10:36 pm #12290AnonymousGuestHey, sounds like you’ve bought a sweet machine. Agree with others that the MSF is worth taking. From what I’ve read, you’re giving the thing alot of respect, keeping the wrist low, etc.
You should be fine.
Yo eon, you;ve got too much effin time on your hands.
September 18, 2008 at 1:02 am #12295AmorylParticipantyep, I know everything. HAH!
my post came off a bit…jerk? condescending? holier than thou? well…yeah likely.
honestly it’s not you, it’s me. (man, sounds like I’m breaking up with you or something…) or rather it’s the less responsible idiots out there. clearly you’re more mature about your new bike than 99% of the guys who start out on liter bikes, and I apologize for dismissing that.
I was mostly coming off of having experienced the other types who recommend dangerously overpowered bikes as fine for beginners, and lopped you in among those who’ll give young idiots dangerous ideas. I did say that it’s not your responsibility, nor is it even possible to keep idiots from being idiots. but thats pretty overshadowed by my basic claim that you’ll get some kid killed (yeah that was a wrong way for me to put something, I admit that) the whole rant (and yes it’s clearly a rant) started as something and spiraled out into something else, without there ever properly being a differentiation. in the end I was ranting about those idiots who tell people massively unsafe advice thats likely to get others killed, and dumped it all on you.
that being said, I still cringe when I hear someone getting a liter bike for their first bike.
September 18, 2008 at 1:09 am #12296AmorylParticipantI sincerely hope you don’t think that I expressed hope that you’d have a horrible accident or the like. I don’t. I don’t even hope for the actual idiots doing stoppies and such in rushhour traffic to have one…not seriously anyway.
September 18, 2008 at 5:52 am #12309RabParticipantI thought that was a good and carefully considered post eon.
P.S. ‘ Love your picture
September 18, 2008 at 11:04 pm #12339ranetteParticipantAmoryl, sorry for lashing back at you. Did you come off as a jerk in your first post? Yeah, probably. But I was a bit of a !@#$% in my reply. In my first post I said I was a big boy and could take criticism. I still think I can but for some reason I didn’t accept yours. To tell you the truth I think most of it might have slid off my back except for the “another dead kid” line that just kind of set me off. To be honest, do you think a kid thinking about doing stupid things on a Hyabusa would be caught dead(bad choice of words I know) on a site called bestbeginnermotorcycles.com? If anything what I’m trying to emphasize in my posts, because that is how I am approaching things is that I am taking things as slowly and carefully as I am able to. I realize that the size of my bike will magnify exponentially any error that I make and take that into account every moment that I am riding.
I understand that most of your post was out of concern, concern that my approach might get myself or somebody else hurt or worse. The one point I’d like to reiterate to you, and everybody else who is questioning my approach is that I am not reckless. I am taking things at a very measured pace, probably more so than if I were on a mid sized bike. I’ve been riding a little bit each day and still, believe it or not, have traveled faster, by a good 5mph at least, on my scooter than on the Ducati.
September 18, 2008 at 11:28 pm #12340AmorylParticipantI go through weird moments now and then, and I’m never really entirely sure what causes it, but the result is that i temporarily lose my “don’t be a jackass” filter. and I say something that comes off as being a jerk (of which everyone is now and then) and it usually sparks a reply in kind. and then we man up, we say we’re sorry for being a jerk, and shockingly, we go back to being adults. so…I hope you’ve got no hard feelings, and I won’t either.
as for those types being caught dead here? yes they do. there’s fairly constantly a new kid looking for justification of getting that “busa” for his first bike. we try to talk him out of it, but most of the time we know it’s a pretty foregone conclusion and he’s just looking for someone to say “yes!”
there ARE a few who’ve been talked down from the 4cyl ledge, who’ve stumbled upon here and the result is a dousing in cold water.
I think thats why I lashed out at you. you, unlike most of the idiots out there who start out on a huge bike are a responsible adult, well spoken, and safety minded. the rest, we can more or less dismiss, especially if they’re full of unintelligible leetspeak. and it was my general fear that someone on the margin who could go either way will see your posts and say “hey, he’s smart, responsible, mature, and HE started on this huge bike” and in that sense, you’re more “dangerous” than the idiot talking about stoppies and biking in shorts and a doo-rag. but it WAS wrong of me to attribute responsibility on your part to other people’s choices. mostly it was my knee jerk reaction about liter bikes.
Elwood’s gotten less flack than you, yes. but if you look at his posts it’s full of little lessons on why it likely would have been a better idea to start small, and he actually DID intend to start out with a 250 till some jackass dealer talked him out of it. that and when you get into the higher cc bikes, there’s a world of difference between cruisers and sportsbikes. 99% of elwood’s issues are based around it’s size and weight, with big fat tires and a heavy turn. if he gooses the throttle, it’ll jump forward, but more like a ninja 650 than….well…yours. you goose the throttle and you’ll take off like a rocket. cruisers are generally pretty underpowered speed wise for their displacement. but damn if they can’t tow a trailer
clearly this is all your fault for not having lots and lots of trouble on your new bike
September 19, 2008 at 12:04 am #12347RupmiscParticipantSomeone is selling a “don’t be a jackass filter”. Wow. And it works most of the time? Where can I buy one. I’d pay good money for one that worked 50% of the time.
I am currently filter free;-)
Those were two nice posts.
September 19, 2008 at 1:28 am #12352AmorylParticipantit’s a homebrew modification of one of those electric dog collar. you prolly don’t want to know what it wraps around.
also…don’t go swimming when you think you might be a jackass
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