[Rupmisc]

What do you know. Someone listened. The new Street Triple R adds adjustable shocks, better brakes. Still more upright than the Daytona. Now if someone would just add ABS.

By the way, the Speed triple is a liter bike. The Street Triple is a 675, like the Daytona.

If I could only trust myself.

[Rupmisc]

Honda CB250 Nighthawk 2008

[Rupmisc]

WeaponZero, I’ll look at the scrambler. I really do want to be able to ride comfortably for more than an hour, but I’ll also check out the scrambler. The street triple looks like fun, but I really wonder if I don’t want something that may be a little less naked at 40 or 50 degrees f. Also love the idea of ABS.

If I go naked, I’ll confess to being fond of the triumph triple or the mini monster. Not perfect, but pretty cool and very maneuverable. If I ride a Tiger, I’ll report.

As to Nighthawk brakes, I don’t know about worst, but certainly poor and certainly different. Will need to completely relearn braking when switch to disks.

[Rupmisc]

Tiger has the same engine as the Speed triple (somewhat detuned). It has ABS brakes and can be had with heated grips. It has good luggage options, but is reasonably fun without them. It can be used to go from here to there. I wasn’t thinking about any off roading beyond the inevitable occasional hard pan road or gravel driveway.

The F650GS looks really good, but may be hard to find, and even harder to get from a dealer I’m willing to do business with ( I really dislike the closest BMW dealers). The Bonneville is gorgeous and I want one. I have read, however, that the rear brake is a little too easy to lock up, and it may not be quite as good on a highway. I love both those bikes, and will be able to test ride a Bonneville soon

Although I live in the suburbs north of Boston, the roads can be cracked, have potholes and other unpleasantness. I had read that the Tiger is a pretty forgiving bike on these roads (at least compared to the Street Triple or the 696. Tiger dry weight is 469 lbs. with ABS. Anyway, I was wondering what would let me take a 100 mile trip, pack some camera gear (serious gear), but still be manageable and fun around the area. That was the reason for my question. I was also OK on the speed triple and a little cramped on the Ducati (not bad). Maybe the Versys?

Oh yeah, about those BMW brakes, same for the Speed Triple, and Ducati (and they don’t have ABS)!! By the way, is the Tiger lighter than the 800ST?

Took a great long ride today. Temp was in the 60’s. I can feel the creep of winter.

[Rupmisc]

As I said (I think), I test rode the Ducati and the Speed Triple (the Street Triple was not available-they are hard to find). I can try a Tiger. I know that I’m a newbie and my opinion means less than that of someone more experienced. And yes, I have seen that article about people just wanting to get the answer they want to hear. So I am not going to ask what I should do. I am going to offer the following observations, for what they’re worth.

I am not going to grab throttle like a complete noob on purpose. Practice is truly necessary to help see that I wouldn’t do it in a fast situation.

One thing on this site, which I haven’t seen discussed, is that for those who begin on a bike with drum brakes getting used to disk brakes is a huge change, bigger than throttle. You get way more tactile feedback from drum brakes, making finding the max braking point easier. Brakes will be a bigger learning curve, for me, than throttle. Again, it would be key to practice stopping and slowing. Frankly, one of the reasons I’d even consider going bigger is for ABS on the Tiger or on a BMW.

Weight matters too. Balance at low speed, or no speed is harder. It feels different through turns. It takes a little more to lean.

Throttle may be the third most important thing. But, as Andrew and others say, throttle is important. On the other hand, a little more power, if handled well, is quite reassuring.

On the subject of the 696, it does need a little more goose from a start than the triumph (or the nighthawk does). I admit that I like a smooth ramp up of power.

Anyway, I don’t think the issue is primarily throttle, but a combination. I agree that at some point, maybe not yet, you need to take the next step. I would add that, as much as I love my nighthawk, maybe disk breaks on a small new bike (like the ninja 250) should be stressed as a good thing for a beginner.

[Rupmisc]

I have seen some motorcycle mirrors which are OK, but they don’t come close to a car’s. Unless you have a rear pointing camera and a heads up display, that is.

[Rupmisc]

I haven’t done much, but as I put the first 1000 miles on the Nighthawk, I notice that I’d like a little more stability (and less vibration at 55 or more), the ability to carry a little more weight and gear. I like upright or a little forward but don’t expect to do high speed canyon carving. I have no problem changing bikes three times in two years. Emotionally, I’ll probably keep the Nighthawk forever just to ride occasionally, or let other family members learn on.

The Tiger seems to be sort of a do everything bike. But would it be an OK second? Or the Street Triple? Or the 696?

[Rupmisc]

Thanks. Maybe I should try the tiger. I just read a review of the Bonneville that suggested that it was very easy to lock the rear brake. Wonder if that is true.

I suppose less bad isn’t the same as good, though. Too bad I had such a poor experience with the BMW dealer, the new twin cylinder 600ish looks pretty good.

[Rupmisc]

Yesterday I got to ride both a 696 and a Triumph Speed Triple (would have preferred Street Triple but none in area). The mini monster had custom pipes (which increased the noise level-not my cup of tea), but was otherwise pretty nice. Keep in mind that this was my first time ever on anything other than a Nighthawk 250.

Disk brakes, especially on the mini, were a change from drums, and a light touch was really called for. The mini needed a little more throttle to avoid stalling from a standstill, but was neither perfect nor awful below 3500 rpms. The rider’s position is slightly more forward than on either the Speed Triple or on a naked 650 SV, but not bad either. I would have preferred a little less bend in my knees. It would be nice if the reach on the brake and clutch were each adjustable. It was very light, and fun (although practice and self control would clearly be necessary on the move from a 250).

I actually thought that the Speed Triple was a bit less aggressive, even though technically more powerful. I wonder about the Street Triple (which is smaller, but also reflects cost control in its brakes and systems).

I haven’t ridden a Suzuki, or a Kawasaki twin 650. I am wondering if any of the Triumphs or the 696 would be OK as an “slightly experienced beginner’s bike”. If I had the nerve, I’d go with a larger bike with ABS, that could carry slightly more gear but still be fun. Like the Triumph Tiger?

[Rupmisc]

I live in MA and drove up into NH today to look at what might be a good second bike, post Nighthawk 250: one that might be a little more able to take a longer trip (say 200 miles in a day) some of which might need to be on an interstate.

I started with a Harley Dealer, where I had planned to rent a Sportster: but it wasn’t there. Sorry folks, I guess I just don’t get the cruiser thing-or the price thing with Harleys. But the salespeople were very nice and attentive, and the service dept. looked promising.

High point of the day was an impulsive visit to a Triumph and Ducati Dealer. Actually got to test ride a 2008 mini monster, and though considering the new Street Triple (not there) got to ride a Speed Triple. My salesperson suited up grabbed a bike and led the way (and kept himself to my, slower pace.It’s a long way from drum brakes to disk, but I thoroughly enjoyed both bikes. The mini monster is a little more forward and needs a little more throttle from a standing start. But each were nice. This is the second Triumph dealer I have visited, and must say that there is much to be said for the enthusiasm and friendliness here. I’d love to know what people think about the mini monster, and any of the Triumphs (I am still looking for reliable reviews).

Finally, I went to look at what I thought would be promising-the new BMW 650 GS (chain, ABS, heated grips, trip computer). On the phone they talked test drive and items in stock. When I arrived, there were 4 employees in the showroom, at least two were sales people. I asked for the one I spoke to. The guy sat and read a newspaper, didn’t offer to help, didn’t ask questions. The only 650 in stock was one with a low suspension. When I went to ask about luggage available for the bike, the guy almost ignored me. He essentially told me that he didn’t want to waste time with me. The bike looks promising, but I’ll be damned if I buy anything from this dealership. And yes, I do look like I can afford to buy a bike on the spot if I want to.

As much as the idea of a fun naked bike, with some luggage carrying capability, comfort for a 6 foot person (yes, I like the fit of the Versys too), and ABS, I would be very happy to hear somebody give me a reason to buy any Triumph or Ducati, and avoid BMW.

[Rupmisc]

I’m OK with ABS, but frankly, CDs are more convenient than LPs (records) but they aren’t better. I’ve gone back to a tube amp and records. But good digital transport still sounds good with tubes. Tubes aren’t better than transistors (and they are a pain) but they can create a warmer, fuller sound-not better but not worse.

I think ABS does kick in a little earlier than lock, not at the same time. It is not as good as perfect threshold braking, it is just better for most people. I don’t know about turning. in cars, you can try and steer a bit with ABS working, but I’m not sure how that would work on two wheels (I’m not a physicist, and don’t know how bike ABS systems measure sideways stress-cars have four wheels for modulation and feedback).

[Rupmisc]

CBennett, above, was correct. They did say the same thing about cars. I have taken the following driving schools: Skip Barber 2 day driving; Skip Barber 3 day racing; Skip Barber Car Control Clinic, BMW M school, BMW advanced M School. All of the instructors were in accord on one point: they believe that an “expert” can stop in a shorter distance using threshold braking than using ABS. They also believe that there are damn few experts out there.

My guess is that the only reason you don’t see more ABS on motorcycles, is the cost. I wouldn’t be surprised if you also started seeing more traction control systems on more expensive bikes. I really fancy bike may give you the option of turning off the traction control system when you want to slide, but leave it on for normal driving. Again, this is a desirable feature, but it is expensive.

There is no question that these are good things (unless for some reason they don’t work, which doesn’t appear to be the case). ABS has saved a lot of lives in cars. The biggest problem, I believe, is that drivers do not know how to use the ABS (they try to pump, instead of flooring the brake and keeping it there-a problem that Mercedes has tried to deal with).

I want ABS on a bike if I can get it. It might even be worth getting a bigger bike for.

[Rupmisc]

The BMW may cost more than the Versys, but it also looks interesting, as do the BMW 800GS and ST (and they have belt drives). Thinking more of a second bike here.

[Rupmisc]

I have ordered a pair. Note that although they have padding, they are not abrasion resistant all over, so you may still need motorcycle (kevlar) jeans. It would be nice if someone made motorcycle jeans with pads. Hell, for me it would be nice if someone made abrasion resistant khaki slacks.

But I thought that the Bohn pants were worth a try for those short trips where I actually needed to stop and interact with people. I’ll be happy to report back if I ever get them. It may take as long as two weeks, which is really not the best service.

Edit: I don’t believe that Bohn claim that the pants meed CE standards.

[Rupmisc]

If your heart is set on a 650 with upright seating, either of the above bikes might be comfortable. To me, sitting on the 650R was nice, but the Versys, being taller (with essentially the same engine) was nice, providing an even more upright posture, and less bend in my knees. I haven’t heard much about the Versys on this site, but with saddlebags, does anyone think it would be an acceptable bike for day trips (with stuff) of about 200 miles?

[Author]

Posts