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Yamaha Jog (CE50, CG50, CY50)
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MattParticipant
I hope you have experience cleaning carbs… not fun, if you don’t! But well worth the money saved. And putting in that elbow grease yourself will make the bike all the more “yours”.
I’d be careful with that helmet though. Buying (or getting) a used helmet is putting your hands in the life of the previous owner. Did he drop it? A dropped helmet (not just crashed, but dropped from a few feet onto concrete) can affect its ability to protect you. In the store, a dropped helmet is a bought helmet, for good reason – they can’t sell it to anyone else after you’ve dropped it.
Secondly, how old is the helmet? The glues, resins, and foam used in motorcycle helmets break down with time. Cheap helmets (which the HJC is) should be replaced, crashed or not, every three years. The higher end helmets (Arai and Shoei) every five years (same goes for bicycle helmets btw).
Great deal on the bike, now use $150 of the well saved cash to get yourself a helmet that fits you perfectly, is comfortable, looks cool, and you know will keep what is really important safe – you.
MattParticipantIt really depends on where you live.
Firstly, even in Canuckistan (generally much higher rates than the states), $1600/year for a Ninja 250 is high. Look into other insurance companies.
Not financing does not mean lower rates per say, but it does allow you do opt out of collision. What that means is that if you are at fault (either multi vehicle, or single vehicle accident) the insurance company won’t pay to repair your bike. This is how most people I know (myself included) insure their bikes.
Look into insurance offered through your school (or Alumni group once you graduate), as they often have discounts.
Also, if you don’t already have it, take the MSF. Many insurance companies offer a discount for having it.
Again, call around, try all the brokers in your area. It pays to shop around. Also, shop aroudn againafter your first year is up. Many places put a *very* high premium on first time riders (fair when you consider how many of the accidents are by untrained new riders). The company that gives you teh best deal as a new rider may not be the best company once you have one year under your belt.
The company I’m with now costs $600 less per year for my SV650 than the company I had for my first year. But the company I’m with now simply will not insure riders without a full year of riding.
Good luck, and enjoy the 250R
MattParticipantShadow is a physically big bike.
Savage is similar size and weight to a 250.Shadow is a much smoother bike. If you’re going to be on the highway a lot, the shadow is the nicer bike imo.
As a first bike, neither produce too much power, but the shadow weighs considerably more. I personally recommend the shadow as a first bike only if you’ve taken the MSF and are comfortable doing the slow speed stuff on a Rebel. Everything that is hard at low speed is much harder on the shadow.
Savage is, to my understanding (I HAVE NOT ridden one) much lighter and thus much closer in effort to the Rebel.
Belt drive is easier to take care of, and windshields are cheap (as are bag for a cruiser).
Personally, I’d say the Savage because it is easier to ride, easier to maintain, and has lower mileage. But I am a huge fan of the Shadow, it is a good bike imo. So if you feel up to the effort of the heavier bike, you aren’t going wrong with it.
MattParticipantI’m ignoring the original poster.
But I do enjoy the video… and I may have that terrible tune stuck in my head…
February 26, 2009 at 1:16 pm in reply to: Looking for Second Bike–Thinking Used Middleweight Cruiser from 1990’s #16748MattParticipantGoing on nothing but photos, the intruder gets my vote too!
Mind you, the photo of the Vulcan is pretty poor… if we clean it up a bit, it doesn’t look so shabby.
But still, the intruder is pretty slick with the red frame, red shaft (nice touch) and spoke wheels…
MattParticipant150 pounds is nothing to a 250. They will push my 190 pound carcass at 65+ mph all day without issue.
Even big bikes are pushed around by wind. I’ve found that a lot of the comfort of a bigger bike in wind comes with experience rather than weight. As you get better you relax and let the bike move under you.
I’ve had some bloody windy days on the ZZR-250, and it handled them fine.
Sit on a bike for awhile before dismissing it as too small. If it is comfortable, it isn’t too small, simple as that.
MattParticipantYou should be writing some sort of sales contract with any seller for a used bike. Just a hand wirtten thing that you each get a copy of (and both sign) detailing the bike (VIN, mileage, etc), price, and conditions of sale (as is, safetied, etc).
One of the conditions of sale you can ask for is that the bike pass inspection with a garage of your choice.
If you or the seller have a pick-up or trailer (or you have a friend with), you can get it there yourself, usually with a small down payment to the seller. If it fails in the inspection, you get the down-payment back, and the seller has an inspection report he can use to fix the bike, or show other potential buyers just what is needed.I did this on one bike I almost bought. The bike looked pretty fair, but as soon as the mechanic got to it he said it would take $2k just to pass safety, and even then it would have a short life (too many parts worn). I tried to use this to negotiate a lower price, but the seller was firm. In the end I walked away from it. And I’m certain that was the right choice.
MattParticipantMost people are, and it is healthly. I worry about the person who feels no fear of nerviousness at throwing themselves into traffic on a basically-unprotected vehicle, that will require skills they don’t have yet.
Spend some time on your street practicing engaging the clutch and turns so that you will be as ready as possible before you hit that main street.
MattParticipantFive year warranty?
Why?Firstly, most bikes only come with a 1 (sometimes 2) year warranty. Warranty length has never really seemed to sell bikes the way it sells cars. With proper maintenance ANY japanese bike (and I’m pretty sure all American, British, German, and even the good Korean bikes) will last to 30 000 miles without any issue. These days, pretty much every bike sold is expected to survive just fine to double that without any major work (routine and wear items exepted – and they aren’t covered by warranty anyways).
Secondly, are you going to be keeping that bike for the full five years? Probably not (statistically speaking you’ll part with the bike in two years, maybe a lot less, maybe a lot more). Will that warranty give you any better resale value you? Personally, I doubt it.
The warranty is going to cost you $500 – what failures are likely to befall you that will cost more than $500 (combined) to fix over the life of the warranty? I can’t think of any. Don’t ask the salesman, ask the mechanic (stop by early, go to the repairs desk and try to ask the mechanic a few questions before you speak with the salesman). Ask him what sort of repairs the new ninja need most.
The only concern is if you get a “lemon”. And again, with the big four japanese brands, you seem pretty safe from those (especially when going with a tried-and-true design like the Ninja 250 which has been around largely unchanged for 20 years).
Now, the warranty is peace of mind for you, and profit for the salesman. Likely in the $100-$200 range.
If you really want that peace of mind (and realize that is what you are buying), I’d be up front with the salesman and say you want the warranty, but the cost is just too high. How about dropping the cost of the bike by $100?If you are financing the bike through the dealership, understand that they will also be getting a cut on that, likely $100 as well. Use that in your bargaining. Tell him you can get a loan cheaper elsewhere, but if he knocks some off the cost of the bike you’ll go through his financing. I’d actually do the shopping around too, so you know just what sort of rates you can get from a bank, and what rates the financing is goign to cost you.
Is this GAP insurance sold via the dealer? Same deal. Shop around, call the local insurance brokers. I don’t know what rates are like in your area, but $500 sounds like a lot for US insurance on a Ninja 250. you can bet if the dealer is including it in the sale price he’s getting paid to do it.
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Now, take a deep breath. What can you get for $5300 (I’m not counting insurance since you need to buy that for any bike)?
Frankly, if you look at the used market, you can get A LOT of bike for that. Even new you can get a Hyosung 650 for that OTD in many areas (I’m not recommending the Hyosung, I’m just saying that $5000 is a lot for a first bike).
I’m sure you can get (with some patience) a used ’08 250 for less than that. I’m sure you can get a used Ninja 500 or GS 500 for less than that.And what about resale? Again, you won’t keep this bike forever. What does a one or two year old 250 sell for? How much will you lose in depreciation and warranty (you pretty much lose all the warranty).
If money is a concern, let someone else take the depreciation hit of the first year or two years (biggest hit).
If the ’09 is *your* bike and it speaks to you, Negotiate. Research you options and negotiate.Cheers, I hope it all works out for the best.
-MattEdit:
I’m with Spaz on the saving up thing btw. A bike is fundamentally a toy. Going into debt for a toy is a bad idea. It is what spereates those who are perpetually in debt from those who are debt free. In the current economy, a little patience and frugality is always a good thing.How much is your down payment? If your down payment is a couple of grand, you can buy a used bike for that and skip the financing all together. If you buy a $2000 bike, it’d require $3000 in repairs over its life before it cost you as much as a new bike even if the bike never required one repair.
Cycle-world has two articles up on buying cheap used bikes:
Five used-bike buying tips (nothing really new in here, but hey)
http://www.cycleworld.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=1055Ten best used bike buys (all under $3k)
http://www.cycleworld.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=1054February 25, 2009 at 1:55 pm in reply to: Looking for Second Bike–Thinking Used Middleweight Cruiser from 1990’s #16717MattParticipantWheels:
Spoke wheels require an inner tube, making them heavier and accelerate slower, they also flex when leaned hard. BUT, the flexing also acts as another layer of suspension giving you a smoother more comfortable ride than the same bike with cast wheels.
Sit on ’em, and if you can, ride them around the block.
You aren’t going wrong with either one, just find the one that speaks to you.MattParticipantI’m 6 foot, and I have a 32″ inseam.
Don’t discount the Ninja 250/500 or GS500. They are “standards”, throw a set of soft luggage ($100-$200 bucks for a set) over the back seat and you can hold stuff for a multi-day trip. They are also pretty darned comfortable on the highways.
I find the dual sports to be far less comfortable (norrow hard seat), and have a more limited range between fillups (2gal tanks vs 4 gal tank on the street bikes). They are equally capable of carrying gear (still need soft luggage, or spend $$$ on a hard luggage set – I’d recommend saving that investment for your second bike).
What consitutes freeway speeds to you?
Some of the 250cc dual sports are gears so they top out 65-70mph. I consider that fast enough for the freeways (around here no speed limit is higher than 60mph), but I know some people who consider 80mph to be the minimum for “freeway capable”.The DRZ-400 can do 80mph all day and is a great bike if you find it comfortable.
Unfortunately the 400cc class is pretty much dead in North America.
As always, sit on as many bikes as possible, find the ones that speak to you and make the compromises you feel best with (alas, all bikes are compromises, but that is part of what makes each oen special).
MattParticipantGood little bike, have fun!
And since I’m sitting in sub-freezing temperatures waiting another month before I can ride on a daily basis, I’m thinking some very unkind and jealous thoughts. Care to trade weather patterns?
MattParticipantChanging the front sprocket can make your gears taller giving you better mileage at the cost of acceleration. Usually people go up or down one tooth up front. The sprockets themselves are cheap (under $50). But are usually done when the chain is replaced (as you should probably change both sprockets at the same time as the chain).
I personally would go with one of the 500s (GS/Ninja, blast if it fits your style) because they get good mileage, are bullet proof, have a comfortable riding position and provide some weather protection. The Ninja250 is also a good option. It’ll do 80mph all day getting better mileage than the 500s, and still has the upright seating position.
I don’t think the TW200 would do well for that. It really is intended as a farm bike, and is not known for handling well above 65mph. In fact I’d stay away from a dual sport since it is geared low, and is very un-aerodynamic (what with your body being a big sail and all).
MattParticipantI’ve ridden the F650GS
It is not an ideal first bike.
A good bike, but it makes a lot of power and accelerates very quickly. The turning is quick and sensitive, making it a poor choice for a new rider as they will over correct.It is also not a true dual sport, rather a road bike with dual sport looks and seating. It’ll handle dirt roads, but nothing more adventurous than that.
Excellent second bike, lousy first bike.
The 250cc Dual sports have enough torque to move your mass. Most of the small dual sports top out about 70mph (~115km) due to their gearing, not the weight of the rider.
The TransAlp is not available in North America (hence not being on this site) and is still much larger than recommended for first time riders. Powerful and top heavy, it too would not be the best first bike.
MattParticipantI have a ton of experience on bicycles. Road, Mountain, Downhill. I have pretty solid control of a bicycle.
The skills simply do not translate directly. Man handling a 45 pound DH rig (let alone a 20 pound road rig) does not do anything for you when it comes time to finesse a 350 pound motorcycle.
For one thing, you don’t do much to balance a motorcycle, it does it for you with any speed, it is the other elements of control that you need.Some skills transfer; looking far enough ahead, fine brake control and modulation, if you’ve got these really good on a mountain bike, they’ll transer fairly well.
Some skills hinder you. I found bike-body seperation (keeping upper body upright, leaning the bike far out to a side) to be a determent to my cornering on a motorcycle because I would lean the bike without leaning my own weight, thereby making my cornering much more dangerous (higher centre of of gravity, using more of the edge of the tire than I should)
Take the msf before you commit to a big bike like the SV650.
I love mine, but I’m very glad I had my year on a 250 first. -
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