[Matt]

Spyder… looks a lot like a ski-doo in person. I was surprised by how un-motorcycle it looks.

I recently saw a custom ‘Busa trike. Made for a guy paralyzed from the waist down. It even had a special pillion seat for the aid-worker who had to ride with him. Stuff like that always impresses the heck out of me.

As for the original post, I’ve never seen a bike with Three wheels on the back… do you have any photos or links?

[Matt]

It is a 30 year old bike, “vintage” and “reliable” are not entirely mutually exclusive, but close to it.

The 550 won’t overpower you, even as a first bike. The 750, probably not. But it will be heavy. The brakes and handling on these bikes will be pretty poor by modern standards.

Just like owning a 70s car, it is a different experience. Either you love it, or hate it.
If you go this route, don’t do it with any images in your head of it being cheap. Parts are hard to come by, and you’ll have to get your hands dirty doing a lot of the work yourself. To some, that is the appeal. To others it is a headache.

[Matt]

I commute 6km (4 miles give or take).
It hasn’t been an issue for me, I’ve ridden in 10C and 35C… But then, my bike is liquid cooled and not as cold blooded as some of the air cooled ones.

[Matt]

Fotobits, have you ridden a BMW 800?
I have. Trust me when I say, it is NOT a bike to be recommended lightly. It WILL cruiser at the ton mark without the rider even knowing it. You talk about a bike that intoxicates, the bmw is right up there. Also, aroudn here at least, BMWs are just as expensive to insure as anything else. The BMW costs as much or more than a VFR800, and more than any of the 650s.

Also, 270 pounds enough to “slow down” a bike enough to make it manageable?
I’ve got to disagree. An increase of 100 pounds over the “standard” rider is less than a 20% increase in weight. Dropping the power-to-weight by that much still leaves most 500+ cc bikes below the 5 second 0-60 range. These bikes are all (even the lowly ninja 250) designed to accomadate 300+ pound riders.

Now, jk2 here has dirt bike experience, which is invaluable (don’t really think the ATV experience ads anything, but that is me). And a 250 is probably an unneeded stepping stone. Any of the 650 twins are probably a good choice. But I’d stay away from 800cc sport/standard bikes until you are good and comfortable with road riding. And frankly, until you know what you want out of a road bike.

As for the V-rod… yes, it is a bad idea. And while it may sound like a great deal, look into insuring it. I’m willing to bet it isn’t such a good deal once you factor in a few years worth of insurance as a new rider as compared to a 500 or 650. As for seating position, I’m not entirely sure on how teh V-rod sits, but try an SV650 Naked, I *think* it has a similar layout. Remember you and get alternate handlebars to change that aspect of the riding position if the SV650 is close, but not perfect.

[Matt]

Gah, stupid IE lost my post…
I have ridden the F650GS, same engine as the F800ST but detuned. You can find my thoughts on it in this forum. My Dad rode the F800ST. It is NOT a beginner friendly bike. I don’t care what anyone else says. It has a lot of power, the brakes take a very light touch, and it totally belays the speed you are going. You can cruise at a 100mph without noticing. Not god for riders still learning to judge speeds coming into corners. Great bike, awesome SECOND bike. Not a good starting bike.

Ducati and Sportster both have threads on here.
Sportster costs more to buy, repair, and insure than a 600/650 cruiser, with similar performance and handling. LOADS of personality. Good starting bike if you want it and money is not a concern.

Ducati is as good as a 650 twin (SV650, Ninja650R). But costs more to buy, much more to repair, and requires more frequent maintenance. Not really an ideal starter bike.

My 2 cents

[Matt]

Will you notice a difference. Absolutely. The 600 will respond much faster, and you can spin that engine up way higher. Unless you can break the 80mph mark, in second gear on your 500, expect a different animal underneith you.

You can buy bar riders that will make it slightly more comfortable, but the biek was designed for that riding position. You might want to look around at other less extreme bikes if you are more interested in cruising than pure track day power. The ZZR-600 is considered a really good bike. Pure supersport demeanor, all day comfy. Ditto the Honda VFR800. The SV650S will be a good blend of what you are used to and the more extreme GSX-R. It is also a more useful bike aroudn town, as it has more torque and you need to spin the engine less. It is also one of the most popular club racers these days. If you ever want to do a track day, it is certainly up for it. Similarly, non of these are classes as “supersports” and so should have a much lower insurance rate.

There are lots of choices that are 95% as fast in 95% of the situations as the GSX-R, with more practicality than the GSX-R or other 600cc supersports.

Whatever you end up with, enjoy and be safe.

[Matt]

Well, I’m perhaps the most conservative voice on here, so I’ve got to say “well, I am”. I think the 650s are unnecessarily big for beginners, and I’m vocal about that.

And you know what? I’m pleased to be that way.

I’m a very quick learner when it comes to mental things (I’m usually the geek throwing out the math around here), but when it comes to physical skills, I require a lot of practice. I’m a very strong intermediate freeride mountainbiker and snowboarder. Both skills took me several years of practice. Consequently, I still remember how hard those skills are to learn. I’m a very good instructor for those reasons. Too often instructors, even professional ones, forget just how hard some basic skills are for people with no similar experience. Too often skilled instructors forget their own early mistakes and moments of panic.

And if the guys who are paid to teach you in those times forget what it is like, how good is the advice from joe schmo who has been riding for years on a more powerful bike? To him things like clutch control aren’t just common sense, they are muscle memory. They are so easy *now* that he never needs to think about them. Thus his thought that anyone can do it without issue. But he only got to that stage with experience.

I’m the voice of the guy who hasn’t forgotten the learning experience, the guy who has to work to learn to ride properly and safely. Where other guys talk about speeding tickets and “having to pay to play”, I’m the guy that will probably never get a speeding ticket on a motorcycle. And you know what? I don’t care. Because when I get out there, I’m having a blast. I’m having fun, and I’m enjoying the world around me. And you can’t quantify happiness in cubic centimeters.

[Matt]

Safety wise, the single biggest issue is You. A sport/standard will turn sharper and brake harder than a cruiser. But in the experienced riders course, I saw people doing emergency avoidance on giant cruisers – and they were able to really lean the bike over hard and fast.

The biggest part of safety is the brain in your head, and to be always paying attention. With that, you’ll be safe, without that, no bike will save you.

[Matt]

If you wnat ot find stuff specific to your bike, click on bike reviews at the top, the scroll down to find the Virago. Just posting in the General section of the forum works pretty darned well too, since most people look at that more often than the reviews once they are off the front page.

Welcome!

[Matt]

Dyno charts from Two Brothers racing to compare stock vs slip on performance:
http://www.twobros.com/Cust_Service/Dyno_Charts/index.htm

first lets look at the Ninja 650R
http://www.twobros.com/Cust_Service/Dyno_Charts/Ninja650R_2006_hp&torq.pdf

Here we see two things, a fairly steady climb on the hp, with only really a 10 foot pound torque gain through the entire powerband. So she’ll tug harder up to about 7k, then the torque drops off (notice the hp doesn’t, that is because hp is a factor of torque AND rpm). This means it will accelerate slower above 7k than it did below, but it will still have plenty of power to keep you moving. Also notice the scale, We are now talking about torque in excess of 35 pounds throughout the entire usable range. More than double that of the ninja 250.

Lastly, lets look that the ZX-636R
http://www.twobros.com/Cust_Service/Dyno_Charts/KAW_05_dualvale_zx636r_torq&hp.pdf

On the torque side of things, it climbs to a similar peak, from a similar low, but it is almost always above 40 pounds. The 650R only makes 40+ pounds for 3000 rpm, the 636 holds it for 7000.
Move over to the hp chart, and we see it is already making the 650R’s peak hp at just past half way through the rpm range. It climbs a similar slope, but keeps going to almost twice the power of the 650R.

But it isn’t just about power. Honestly, power is only a small part of what makes the bike hard to handle. “Handling” is a bigger issue. The ZX-6R turns in much sharper and faster than the 650R. Most cars take 2.5 turns of the steering wheel to reach full lock. So you have two and a half turns to accurately get the wheel where you want it. Supersports are like taking that making it only 1.5 turns, Suddenly every movement on the wheel has that much more of a magnified effect. You have to be smooth and subtle in your controls, over corrections are dangerous.

Then you add in the brakes. Just like the quick throttle can land you in trouble, so can powerful brakes. Go into a corner too fast, panic and grab your brakes to slow down, the bike will “high side”, that is, stand up and throw you off it.

[Matt]

My Mom has one. Comfy bike. 600cc but only 4 gears! You don’t have to shift often (we joke it is semi-auto since she shifts so little). Very quiet, very smooth. Pulls cleanly and nicely. Because of the tall gearing it never surprises you. But it _is_ faster than a 250.
If a 250 cruiser doesn’t fit you, then I think it is a great bike.

[Matt]

It is a 900cc v-twin sport tourer. It is fast, heavy, and not in the least bit intended for people who don’t have good control of a motorcycle.

[Matt]

The 650R is a chef’s knife. Sharp, powerful, and will cut you if you don’t respect it.

The ZX-6R is a surgeon’s scalpel. It is extremely sharp, does exactly what you tell it to, even if that is just an unintended movement, and will do very serious harm if you don’t know how to handle it right.

By comparison I’d call a 250R a nice camping sheath knife. It’ll do anything you ask of it, it still takes some respect and control, but it is weighted well enough to comfortably handle most anything with it without cutting you.

If you don’t work with knives on a regular basis, this comparison might be useless to you

[Matt]

My mechanic put it at 30000km, but really, same general area.

Motorcycle engines last roughly 50 000km befor major stuff starts happening. Obviously different bikes get longer life spans. Sport toureres and touring bikes obviously have the longest life span, Honda Goldwings and VFRs routinely live past 200 000km, but they are the exception. A high strung super sport lasting to 100 000km… well, I’ve never heard of such a feat.

[Matt]

Honestly, I’m not the best person to say which is better. I’ve ridden neither. Everything I’ve read, and my experiences with other bikes tells me the 500R will be a friendlier bike.

As for the MSF, no the courses are not the same. The lot you practice in makes a big difference, but the individual instructors make the biggest difference. No matter how uniform the ciriculum, the difference between a good instructor and a great one changes everything.

When I took my courses we did it in a pretty big lot. We were able to get up to 40km/h and turn at about 30km/h (roughly 20mph).

When you do get your bike, I highly recommend some time in a large parking lot. If you have a stadium near by, they tend to have great parking lots for it.

[Author]

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