[Matt]

Anyways, I know Im probably sounding like a idiot for even thinking of a 650R, but is it going to get me in trouble any faster than if I drove the 500R in anger?
Yes

I would like to think of myself as being able to handle the power (esp. with my healthy respect of how much damage they can do to you),
Don’t. Handling the power of a motorcycle is not just a mental thing. It has very little to do with temptation. It is a learned skill. If someone gave you a welding torch and said “Weld me a clean line” it wouldn’t matter how much respect you had for the torch. It wouldn’t matter how slow you took it. Without experience it wouldn’t be smooth and it wouldn’t be clean. Would a more powerful torch that let you weld faster produce any better a weld? Respecting the tool only gets you so far, experience is what counts.

but if I get in a emergency situation, is the 650 going to bite me in the ass harder than if I was riding a 500?
Yes. It brakes harder, turns faster, and will wheelie easier.

Also, I know the 650R is a newer design, what with the fuel injection (500R has a carb) and newer styling. How do you guys feel about the fuel-injection-vs-carbs?
Good carbs are better than poor fuel injection. The fuel injection on the 650R (and pretty much any bike post 2005) is pretty much spot on. The carbs on any bike that still has them are pretty much spot on. Technically speaking FI gives better fuel economy and lower emmisions than carbs. I say technically, because fuel economy and emmissions are influenced more by other factors (such as size, weight, aerodynamics, riding style).
From a rider’s perspective, the onyl difference is that Carb’d bikes need a minute or two to warm up that FI bikes don’t. Is this a hassel to the rider? No, you just started the bike and then put on the last of your gear. By the time you’re geared up, the bike is ready to go.

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The problem with the internet: Everyone gets the same font size.

[Matt]

Try charging the battery. I’m continually amazed at issues my Dad’s bike has that can’t possibly seem related to the battery, but a quick charge and the bike is good as new again…

Failing that, take it to an independant motorcycle mechanic! They’ll be abel to tell you. Frankly, there is no good reason for a barely broken in motorcycle to quit like that.

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[Matt]

“I hear some folks complain about acceleration issues on the Ninja 250r when the rider is a little bit bigger”

Sorry, but. I’m 30 pounds less than you, I out accelerate everything on the road that isn’t actively trying to race me. Technically speaking, my Kawasaki 250 is as fast as a Mustang or a WRX. Honestly, I wouldn’t know, since I’ve never raced beside one. In the few cases where someone has lined up and tried to race ahead of me, I always LET THEM. To do otherwise risks my safety. The Ninja 250 is fast enough to be FUN on the road.

I have no personal experience with the Hyosung, so I won’t comment on it. But I will say, anyone who says you need more than the Ninja 250 to learn how to ride and enjoy yourself has simply never ridden one, and is repeating the same “bigger is better” mentality that ends up putting beginners on R6s. Yes, the 650 twins are more predicatble than inline 4s, but they are still machines with a power to weight ratio as an early 90s Porsche 911. If learning how to ride is your goal, there are better bikes to do it on.

Sorry for the rant… well, not really sorry or I wouldn’t be hitting the submit button.

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The problem with the internet: Everyone gets the same font size.

[Matt]

Why not dry cleaners?
Plenty of cleaners specialize in Leather Jackets…
One place local to me charges $15 for leather jackets… $15 seems fair to me to make a jacket tolerable. Failing that, +1 for febreeze. I’ve found it to be hit-and-miss with sports wear… I recommend the “anti-bacterial” version for anything that has seen lots of sweat (my guess is that this jacket qualifies).

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[Matt]

Can you post a link to those notorious engine problems?
I’ve never heard of any. In fact, two bikes at my work are pre 95 EX-500s.

The biggest difference pre 95 is the front wheel is 16″, where as post 95 it is 17″. Which makes it a more stable bike. There were also changes to the brakes (I think that was earlier than 95 though) that improved them.

[Matt]

They are mechanically speaking, all incredibly similar bikes.

The old 600cc Bandit was actually considered a decent starting bike in the same vein as the SV650 is now. Aka, borderline, do not go any bigger. But the bandit was “detuned” even form the Katana at that point. Of course, the best description I ever heard for a Bandit (the 400cc version) was “A Hyena on a leash”… If it wasn’t for the fact the 400cc bandit was so rare, I’d be grabbing one as my next bike

Read a review of the Katana (or look at the sales numbers from the late 90s) and you’ll see that the Katana was a very popular every-day-sport-bike. It was not a track day special, but it was still a zero-60 in 3.5 seconds type bike. It was “the girl next door” of sport bikes: no one lusts over it, but when it came time to chose your partner for the long term, lots of people chose them over the prom queens.

That does not make it a friendly bike to learn on, it simply makes it tolerable in everyday situations where super-sports aren’t.

As stated, the bike weighs substantially more than any of the beginner sport bikes on this website.

At my Experienced Rider’s course, I got to speak to a guy riding a newer Katana 600. He rode a GS500F for three years before moving up to the Kat, and still found the Kat very fast, and hard to ride at slow speeds. In our “high-speed” maneuvers in the parking lot, the Kat and a Ninja 900 (with frame sliders) were the two fastest bikes, by a wide margin.

[Matt]

Any camping supply place. Around here we have Canadian Tire, but i’m pretty sure you could get it at Wallmart.

[Matt]

No, the engine is designed for high rpm for prolonged periods of time. Do not worry about wearing out a Ninja 250. There are literally hundreds of people who ride these bikes for extended trips. I’m talking Florida to Alaska.

The ninja is not delicate little flower that has to be babied. Wring its neck, and it just smiles all the more.

[Matt]

Yup.

It is all part of the breaking in process. It needs to be done at the first service (500 miles if I recall), and then you get the normal 5000 miles or whatever between valve clearance checks.

This is from the Ninja 250 faq (faq.ninja250.org). The Ninja 500 and 250 engine are very similar. Frankly, this applies to most bike engines.

“Do you have to do each and every one of them? Yes. Each and every one.

If you find a mechanic who says they’ll do the 500 mile inspection for what seems like a suspiciously low price, confirm that they will actually check the valves (which is very time consuming), get it in writing, and get the results of that check in writing (they should list clearances for each valve, even if it’s just a “good/no good” type of listing) when they’re done. If you don’t see the results of the valve check, hold them to their written statement. It must be done. Some bikes are fine at 500 miles, but others definitely need adjustment, and waiting until 6000 miles could damage your engine.

…

The valves in the engine are the component which seals the combustion chamber, and allows your engine to make power. If they’re not adjusted properly, you get one of several results: 1. the engine makes less power; 2. the engine makes less power and destroys the valves (a $500+ repair); 3. the engine makes a lot less power (or no power) and destroys big chunks of itself. The third outcome is admittedly unlikely, but it is within the realm of possibility, even at 500 miles on the odometer.

Nearly every owner who has done their own valves at 500 miles has reported that some, or all, of the valves were tight. If your dealer says you don’t need to do a valve check at 500 miles, he’s either blowing you off or is clueless. In either case you should find someone else to work on your bike, such as a good, independent mechanic. “

[Matt]

Good morning, I just rode to work, how about you?

[Matt]

These are descisions you are going to have to make for yourself.

However, some input from a biased source (aka me).

Learning on a bike bigger than 250 is unnessicary, and is going to be less forgiving. The 250s are very forgiving bikes that rarely scare you. On a bigger bike, more of your limited amount of concentration will be spent on the bike, and less on riding and the other road users.
Anyone who tells you a 250 is too slow, won’t be fun, etc, has either not ridden one, or not pushed it anywhere near as hard as it can go.
A 250 cruiser, a Ninja 250, a dual sport 250. all will serve you well, the choice is simply which style you find more interesting and comfortable.

As a first vehicle, I personally am weary of motorcycles as the first vehicle. There is a lot going on as a new driver. There is even more going on as a new rider. Other road users (drivers, pedestrians, cyclists, and yes, motorcyclists) do some pretty stupid things that endanger you, in a car or on a bike. Learning to drive a car first (and putting a few years on it) gets you used to reading road trafic. You won’t be surprised by the cabby with his left turn signal flashing that immediately streaks right across three lanes of traffic, you’ll have seen it coming.

My father taught me to drive a big Explorer (1994). Sight lines sucked, you had no idea where the back end was, brakes were terrible, steering was totally numb, and the V6 made enough power to break the rear tires loose with any amount of jealousness on the gas pedal. It was a hard vehicle to drive. But it really made me work and be a better driver. You had to plan, you had to be smooth, and you had to be very aware of your surroundings.
I wasn’t allowed to drive the family sedan (a sporty little ’89 mazda 626) for over a year. By the time I was allowed to drive the little car I was pretty good driver. But I still had two accidents in my first three years of driving (hydroplaning in the slush and snow, and making a left hand turn without paying sufficient attention). I am very glad I made those mistakes in a cage.

My 2 cents

[Matt]

I’m with spaz in that if you know you are going to speed and get yourself into trouble, owning a bike that is a) less capable of those speeds, and b) feels “faster” at low speeds (like the 250R) is a good idea.

Beyond that, I think the GS500 is probably the best bet. It is slightly more restrained/civilized than the Ninja 500 according to the reviews. It looks sexy, and you seem to be able to get a good deal on a new (or almost new) one. Though in all honesty, I don’t have any idea what a good price for one in your area (or even my area!) is.

The 500 is certainly a bike that you won’t out-grow in the short term.

As for track days, consider saving up and attending a track day school. Around here these cost $500 and include all gear plus bike for the day. They’ll teach you proper high speed cornering and general track riding rules and skills. Certainly not the cheapest one day holiday, but training is the cheapest performance mod you’ll ever get
Of course, once you get used to getting your speed fix on the track … well, it can be an expensive habit from what I’ve heard.

[Matt]

In my family it is my Mom that names everything…
My bike is “Socks” (think a little black kitten with white paws… only this black kitten happens to be wearing black socks…)

[Matt]

Shannon: I guess each to their own. But when I see one in a pack of bikes, it simply looks like a small bike, it doesn’t look ridiculious (which after several in the dealership I assumed it would). And it *does* look dead sexy between the legs of a smaller woman… but that is a discussion for a different time – preferably one where my girlfriend won’t read

Insurance is a big deal, and if the bike is somehow classified as a sport bike, my first reaction would be to start shopping around for other insurance companies. In Ontario we have Kingsway, Statefarm (both done through brokers) and Rider’s Plus (which I think is Jevco underneith it all). I’m with rider’s plus since they are $100 less a year than either of the two (but only insure riders 25 or older with safety course – so not much use to you this year).

For insurance purposes, look at the GS500 and Ninja 500, both are, for me at least, $300 less per year than any 650.
I know OGTC had three nice condition GS500s (full fairing, pretty new looking) last month. They certainly seem to be a popular bike with this crowd (although, for some reason I can’t get the image of ShannonG’s pic with a Fez drawn on it out of my head…)

[Matt]

Haha, nice Shannon.
“And I would have won if that semi hadn’t been coming at me in my lane. I swerved, but there were children there, with puppies. I *had* to lay down the bike. It was the only right thing to do.”

I wouldn’t worry too much about a newer used bike. The bike I got boned on was a 1984! And I certainly didn’t know a ton about bikes when I made that move.

If you are buying a very-new used bike (sub 5000km), look for any scratches on the fairing, or levers (lever ends get ground down when dropped, but tend not to be replaced unless bent). Ask if they have service records (the only service it should have is the first service at 500-1000km). Soem shops (powersports at least) will do a full “first service” on the bike if you haggle it in. They’ll adjust vavles, check chain tension, change the oil, all that good stuff.

Given how busy this summer has been for motorcycles, I don’t know how many “mint” used bikes are left, but they are sure worth looking for. The good news is the dealerships took in lots of trades this spring.

A nice thing about the CBR125 (I know, I keep harping on about that little bike) is that since it only came out in 2007, and it doesn’t make a great long distance cruiser (though many people have started doing epic trips on them) most of them are in great shape and low mileage.

[Author]

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