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eternal05
Participanthttps://bestbeginnermotorcycles.com/buying-new-motorcycle-vs-buying-used-motorcycle
https://bestbeginnermotorcycles.com/top-5-reasons-start-250cc-motorcycle
https://bestbeginnermotorcycles.com/why-600cc-motorcycle-not-good-beginner-bike-updated
https://bestbeginnermotorcycles.com/8-great-beginner-riding-habits
https://bestbeginnermotorcycles.com/beginner-motorcycle-guide
eternal05
ParticipantIt doesn’t go away. Trust me
eternal05
ParticipantWe’re talking about riding here. For somebody who doesn’t ride in the rain (and for THAT you’re welcome to call me a sissy), Seattle has bad weather for riding. There are more days of rain per year here than almost anywhere else, even if it really never rains that hard. That and you don’t see the sun from November to April. But in every other sense, Seattle’s weather is incredibly mild. Never too cold. Never too hot. Almost no snow. No hurricanes, tornadoes, or fire-breathing monsters. It’s all good.
And no, nobody knows how to drive in the snow. It’s both hilarious and terrifying. I can’t tell you how many people I saw in front-wheel drive compact cars trying to, say, take an exit on a downhill slope at 40mph, only to drift hopelessly into the concrete at road’s edge. Also, it seems the Seattle way to get unstuck from snow is to spin your drive wheels as fast as you possibly can until you run out of gas. Who knew?
eternal05
ParticipantAdded.
eternal05
ParticipantThey’re all borderline on account of torque (more than an R6) and a bit because of weight. There are a couple of others, however, that are very similar stat-wise, so I’ll keep them in the comparison.
eternal05
ParticipantYou’re right. I completely missed the “Star” portion of the Yamaha site, so add in:
V-Star 250
V-Star Custom/Classic/Silverado (all 650cc)eternal05
ParticipantNo, the Ducati is not a recommended beginner bike, but then again, neither is the SV really. I wanted to get the specs for all of the bikes we (or I) typically get asked about, then lay them all out next to each other. The specs will speak for themselves. It will also be much easier to be like, “no you freakin’ squid, the Monster is NOT a good beginner bike, and here’s why…”
May 25, 2009 at 9:52 am in reply to: Turned over 2K miles, and confirmed some of the MSF teachings… #18923eternal05
ParticipantYou’re absolutely right about everything you said, but I have one thing to add. The MSF course is very stringent about not braking while leaned, but learning to trail brake can save you in a difficult situation.
Braking while cornering isn’t impossible; far from it. People use it all the time on the street, and especially on the race track. Here’s proof. Valentino (#46 in blue) is trying to out-brake Pedrosa (#3, Repsol Honda) into a turn. Both are still on the brakes while leaned over:
Chances are that every single one of you that rides a bicycle is perfectly happy to trail brake, whether you realize it or not. The trick with trail braking is tact. You can’t brake as hard as you would in a straight line or you’ll lowside, having asked more from your tires than they can deliver. You also can’t just brake, as the act of braking tends to right the bike.
Here’s how it’s done. You’re leaned over, coming around a blind turn. You see a row of stopped cars way sooner than you’d anticipated they would appear, and you need to slow down. You GRADUALLY squeeze the brakes, causing the bike to want to straighten up, but the metal guardrail at the edge of this shoulderless road won’t be having that. To counteract that tendency you countersteer back into the turn, but gently. This allows you to apply the brakes while continuing to follow the direction of the road.
Being able to braking while turning, even for 10 feet, will allow you to slow down substantially, which in turn will allow you to straighten up more, which will in turn allow you to brake harder.
Do not try this cold in your next emergency situation. Include it in your PLP the next time you go. Start by simply getting into a nice gentle turn at, say, 20-25mph, and ever-so-gently touch the brakes. You should feel the bike pull upright slightly. Now try gently pushing the bars back into the turn to compensate, so that you can continue on your way at the same radius while braking. Eventually, increase the strength with which you brake, your speed, and your lean angle.
It’s really not hard, and like I said, if you do it by instinct, it can save your life. It’s worth a try!
eternal05
Participantfor giving me something to do other than sleep!
Ok, for serious this time. Bed.
eternal05
ParticipantGrabbing a handful of front brake while still somewhat on the gas could only make you highside if you grabbed just enough to maintain traction, while slow the bike enough that the drive on the rear wheel caused the rear to spin. The rear would then have to drift out of line with the front, then regain traction, snap back, and throw you off. Not likely, but I can understand why you’d want to be cautious. Highsiding doesn’t look like much fun, and like you, I do my best to avoid it
One thing I’ll say is that, like you would using four fingers, you still have to roll the gas off to get on the brakes when using two. The reason is that with your wrist rotated for the throttle, your fingers probably won’t be long enough to actually squeeze the lever without rolling back.
This suggests to me that you’re raising your throttle hand position when trying the two-finger method. Consciously return to a low throttle grip and then give it a try, just standing still, and see if that makes a difference. Just a thought. There’s nothing terrible about four-finger braking, so if it doesn’t suit you, don’t sweat it.
eternal05
ParticipantContact patch: the area of tire surface in direct contact with the road at any given time. This DECREASES as the bike leans over, and INCREASES as the bike stands up (part of this has to do with the way tires deform, but it’s mostly just geometry). The size of the contact patch is directly correlated with the amount of traction you have on a dry, clean surface. Moreover, the lean angle of the bike also shifts the direction of force against the contact patch. That is to say, when the bike’s straight up-and-down, the weight of the bike is perpendicular to the contact patch, giving good traction. When you’re dragging your knee, corner forces acting against the traction of the contact patch are now substantially lateral, pushing your bike towards the outside of the turn and decreasing grip.
Traction: Your tires can provide so much. When there’s none left, you slide. Braking, turning, and accelerating all require traction, each variable with the degree to which it’s being done, of course. Use it all up via any combination of those three things, and you go down (or you’re a pro and you throw a sick rear slide).
Now, with regard to the motive behind hanging off, it is in order to DECREASE the lean angle of the bike, keeping it more upright through a turn of a given magnitude. Megaspaz hit on a key reason why this is good: more upright means bigger contact patch which in turn means more traction for turning and acceleration, as well as a greater sense of stability.
Though it confused me a bit, I think briderdt was saying the right thing. Taking a turn of a given radius faster requires leaning more. By hanging off you are, in a way, leaning the whole rider+bike package more, even if you’re trying to “unlean” the bike. The idea is, if you need your center of gravity to be nine inches left of your tires to make the turn at speed, but you don’t have enough lean angle to do so before hitting hard parts, you can straighten the bike while using your body weight to move the combined weight of bike and rider farther into the turn. This allows you to go faster while turning that same amount.
There is however another super important reason (for racers) to keep the bike more upright. The more you’re leaned over, the slower you go at a given engine speed. You should know this from experience (this is why if you don’t crack on the throttle as the bike leans over you slow way down and start to fall in). The explanation is very simple. The radius of the wheel at the rim is smaller than the radius of the wheel in the middle, and one revolution of the wheel translates to less distance covered. Therefore, the more upright you are through the corner, the faster you are going at a given engine speed.
That said, there are good reasons to use your body weight on the street, but I actually would not recommend hanging full off, especially not on roads you don’t know well. The reasons to use your body weight to decrease lean angle on the street are as follows:
1) Less lean angle means more traction. This is especially handy if you encounter unexpected cracks/potholes, dirt, debris, etc. in the road.
2) Less lean angle means more ground clearance for hard parts. Touch a footpeg to the asphalt and chances are you’re going down. Bad.Reasons not to hang off on the street:
1) If your knee is out, it’s not on the tank. No matter how good your form is, you’re more vulnerable to bumps and unexpected road conditions than you would be with both knees gripping the bike. Racers don’t have this problem because the tracks, for the most part, are predictable and obstacle-free. Also, chances are your leg muscles aren’t up to the challenge of keeping you on.
2) The farther your knee is from the bike, the more it makes a great hook for some road obstacle to grab you by.That said, there are certain favorite roads where sometimes I can’t resist. I mean, you SHOULDN’T speed, but sometimes that’s not enough to stop ya
Get the stretcher ready. Just sayin’.
eternal05
ParticipantMSF teaches use of all four fingers so that newbies don’t run into problems accidentally using both brake and throttle at the same time.
If you look at most experienced riders, you’ll see that one to three fingers are often used depending on the rider’s preference. There are several reasons for this. First, using two fingers allows you to cover the brake while in tricky situations on the street. This substantially reduces your reaction time getting on the brakes in an emergency. Second, it allows you to both brake and blip the throttle when downshifting (definitely more common on the track).
I personally use two fingers on the brake 90% of the time.
eternal05
ParticipantYou know, the kind you pedal around on, causing you to sweat profusely?
If so, find a motorcycle book (I recommend Proficient Motorcycling by Hough or Twist of the Wrist II, not the first one, by Keith Code) and read it cover-to-cover. Also read this:
http://www.msf-usa.org/CurriculumMaterials/BRC_Handbook_Vs7.1_noprint.pdf
You might also consider browsing this:
http://www.ridelikeapro.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&id=34&Itemid=62
In particular, try out “art of leaning” and “mastering the u-turn.” Having some idea of what you’re getting yourself into before MSF will help out a lot. You’ll be focused more on the physical (e.g. developing throttle control, keeping the knees gripping the tank, keeping your eyes up, etc.) rather than the mental (i.e. which side of the handlebars do I push to go left?).
Finally, and this is where that pedal bike comes, in, you should get used to countersteering, braking, weight transfer, and lean on your bike before you show up to MSF. My years racing bikes put me way ahead of the curve in my MSF course when it came to keeping my eyes up, looking through turns, being comfortable on a steep lean, etc. Throttle control was a different story…heh…
eternal05
ParticipantI love the place. Winter is just not the best time (not for snow mind you, but for utterly depressing grey day in and day out).
eternal05
ParticipantThing is Owlie, I am skilled beyond all others in the ways of procrastination. I should have been working last night, but instead I was googling bike statistics for the post above. You don’t stand a chance if you aren’t good to go until June. I have WAY too much procrastination to fit in between now and then
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