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eternal05Participant
The Drive Mode Selector switch that you refer to is not going to make life easier for a complete newb. If you put it in C mode, it will be easier to ride, but “easier to ride” means around 65-70hp (i.e. the same as an SV650 or Ninja650R). That still means 0-60 faster than a Porsche 911.
eternal05ParticipantAlright, I just about made this exact same post in another thread.
I have both Ninja 250R and GSX-R600. Yes, BOTH. Did I EVER get tired of the 250R? No. In fact, around the city it’s WAY more fun to ride because you get to shift! If you don’t get on the highway and aren’t blowing the speed limit to shit, you will not get out of 2nd gear in the city on a gixxer. On a Ninja 250R, you can get lots of practice shifting, learning to carry speed through turns, and learning to really control the bike. Add to this the absurdly good 250R mileage, ease of maintenance, far lower MSRP, etc. and you have a lot of reasons to put the gixxer on hold.
When I started out I came within a hair’s breath of buying a gixxer. I loved the look, and the hours of daydreams I’d had zooming around on that thing was really pushing me to get one. Then a friend of mine, who had a GSX-R, loads of miles under belt, and more wisdom than I, spent about 2 hours with me in a parking lot teaching me how to ride on the 600. That was enough to talk me out if it. Throttle control is hard to learn. It’s especially hard when, unlike on the Ninja 250R or the bikes used in most MSF courses, first gear will easily get you past the freeway speed limit, and faster than you can tie a shoe.
There are a ton of ways to kill yourself on a race bike, but believe me, the ones you hear most (target fixation on a telephone pole, running wide on a turn, etc.) are just the tip of the iceberg. For instance, if you’re starting a nice turn at 40mph, casually leaning in, and when you get back on the gas you do it just a bit too hard, you’ll chirp the rear tire and start it spinning. If you were Valentino Rossi at Mugello, you might get the bike under control, but you’re freaked the F@#$% out. You’ve lost traction at 40mph, there’s a concrete barrier to your right, and there’s a truck running wide in oncoming traffic. You’re done. Either the rear tire suddenly catches and you highside, or you lowside into concrete at 40mph, or get hit by a truck. Good times.
Ok ok, you ask, so why do I have the GSX-R then? Well, because I am like you in at least one way. I think sportbikes look freakin’ sweet. I love zipping through corners leaned over, races, and everything that goes with them. Nobody on this forum will tell you not to ever get a supersport (just look at Ben and his ZX-6R). They just want to make sure that you know what you’re getting into, and that you have the requisite experience under your belt before you do. Be safe, and keep your need for speed in check as long as you can.
eternal05ParticipantFor somebody who’s never set butt on a bike, you seem to have an awfully strict timeline for graduating from your beginner bike. Truth is, after two months pulling wheelies and stoppies is a good way to eat pavement, especially on a Ninja 250. Like Elias said, don’t be a squid.
I’ve got both a new-model Ninja 250R and a gixxer 6, and while I can absolutely understand your taste, don’t rush yourself. To be honest, the hard part of riding a motorcycle (if you practice) is not learning throttle control, shifting technique, maneuvering, etc. The hard part is having enough experience and presence of mind to use the skills you’ve developed in a pinch. That can only be gained with time and mileage, so I’d really urge you to wait longer before upping your engine size.
eternal05ParticipantTo use your fork lock, you should be using your side stand and turning your handlebars in the direction of your side stand. I.e. if your side stand is on the left (which it is), turn your handlebars all the way to the left and lean it over on the stand, then set the fork lock.
If you cannot do this when setting your fork lock, something’s wrong.
eternal05ParticipantIf you’re bound by money, you don’t have much choice, but keep in mind, things are not always a cheap as they look. That’s an old bike, and unless it hasn’t been ridden and has had great treatment and maintenance, you could be spending $900 for ownership of a bundle of ready-to-die machinery. Worst case, you drop $900, spend another couple hundred fixing things as they break, and then the bike dies for good.
Get the mileage numbers and, if you can, bring your Dad along to check it out. A great, well-maintained bike lasts a lot fewer miles than the crappiest, most abused car. I’d say anything above 40-50K miles (most don’t last to 75K) is a deal-breaker, given the age of the bike.
By the way, you should be able to get a much newer bike for $1000-$1500. I know that’s a big step up for you, but it could be a lot cheaper (and safer) in the long run. You might also want to sacrifice your desire for a sport bike, at least at first. Learn to ride on some cheap 250-500cc banger and then spend some real money in a few years’ time on the bike of your dreams. I know it sucks not to feel good about your bike’s image (I’m a sport bike fan too), but honestly, that interceptor isn’t much closer to sport bike heaven than, say, a Rebel or a Virago.
One last thing. Do you have any gearhead friends/family that could help you out if the bike turns out to be a lemon? If so, you might feel better about the whole thing. Either that, or give yourself an opportunity to do some grease monkeying!
Do what you gotta do, just know what you’re getting into.
eternal05ParticipantTires are one of the most crucial components on your bike. Tires fail for whatever reason, you go down. You don’t want to get crappy tires. ‘Nuff said.
On the other hand, sometimes one person’s “better” tires aren’t better for you. As an extreme example, race slicks will provide astronomically better grip on smooth pavement (*cough* tracks *cough*), but are much less stable in rain, etc. You want to find a tire that is the best tire for the riding you do, not the “best tire” as dictated by some track-day junkie, for instance.
You asked about traits of lousy tires. Most of it comes down to traction. A “good” tire has close to the maximum amount of traction available in a given situation. To do this, however, it usually must be purpose built. Racing slicks are meant to be sticky as hell on warm track, but suck anywhere else. Off-road tires have knobs to dig into loose dirt and gravel, but also have less surface area on asphalt. Street tires try to be all-around good tires: jack of all trades, master of none.
I’m not sure what the stock Versys tire is like. If you don’t ride in the rain (as I don’t…that’s right Elwood, I’m a big pussy ), you may want to consider going for more of a performance tire (a sport-tourer, perhaps). This will give you better traction on dry asphalt, and give you much more confidence on the brakes and in turns.
eternal05ParticipantI used to work retail back in high school and college. Believe me: nothing gets you more negotiating experience than having pro negotiators working you over day in and day out. Here are some things to keep in mind. They’re not all essential and you can do fine without this stuff, but this is everything I know.
1) This is THE most important thing: be willing to walk away. If you are set on buying X from person Y, you’re already hosed. Your power as a consumer comes from the fact that the seller needs your business, but, in most cases, the product you want (or competitors’ products) is (are) available elsewhere. They should be in YOUR pocket, not vice versa.
2) At no point during your transaction should you show the slightest hint of excitement. Act neutrally, calmly, and logically. Be polite, but maintain an air of skepticism about any pitches, deals, etc. that a salesman throws at you. Grill the salesman on each and every potential flaw in the product. Make him/her struggle to convince you that the product is right for you, and never yield the impression that they’ve succeeded. The more unsure the salesman is that you want the product, the more he/she will do to get you out the door with it.
3) Strike a hard bargain, and be firm. Practice restraint, and like (1), be willing to leave (at least temporarily) if the salesman doesn’t like your offer, and doesn’t propose an acceptable alternative. I.e. “I’m sorry, but I don’t think I’m ready to spend X amount at this moment. I’ll have to go home and think about. Here’s my contact info if you change your mind.”
4) Your opening offer should be at the very bottom of the range you think is reasonable (or maybe even slightly below). This allows some room for negotiation without destroying your margin.
5) Salesmen like to close. Once you’re ready to buy, don’t waste time. Be assertive, and get an offer on the table. State your willingness to conclude the transaction immediately IF the deal is to your liking. I.e. “give me this price out the door and I’ll write you a check right now.”
6) If you can afford it, bring cash. Financing introduces all kinds of risks to the salesman and may yield a gargantuan waste of his time if your credit and financing options don’t align with what you want and what he/she’s willing to offer. You’ll find that MOST of the time (not always), being ready to pay cash will move things along much faster, and more in your favor.
7) Know the product you’re interested in backwards and forwards. Be able to correct the salesman if he lies to you or makes crap up. Put him on the spot. Ask about complex aspects he may not know about (especially if you genuinely are curious). This will contribute to the dealer treating you with respect and not trying to schmooze you. While this may seem douchey, keep in mind that you are not there to be a friend. You should be polite, but ultimately you are there to conduct a business transaction. No BS.
Know the value of the product you’re interested in. Find out what the wholesale cost on that item is, and figure out exactly how much margin the dealer has (i.e. mark-up). Then reduce that margin to a reasonable amount. In all but the most desperate sales, there must be a margin for the sale to help the dealership at all. There are many sites online that offer dealer invoices on new vehicles, as well as market value estimates for used vehicles. Google around. It’s very hard for anybody to make a blanket statement about a particular vehicle’s worth without knowing the specifics. To give you an idea, the following are some purchases I’ve made over the past decade:
2002 VW Jetta, listed ~$22,000 + tax/fees, paid $18,000 out the door (saved ~$7K)
2008 Ninja 250, listed $3,999, paid $5K+.
With the Ninja, there was a HUGE gap in supply/demand. Dealers were charging over MSRP for these suckers. You couldn’t negotiate if you wanted one because they were on back order for 4 months. If you didn’t buy, somebody else would. I was in THEIR pocket.
2006 Audi A4 (certified used, purchased last month), listed $29,900 + tax/fees, paid $21,000 OUT THE DOOR. Saving: ~$13,000
How did this work? I have two words for you: shit economy. You know, that and everything I wrote above
9) Your goal doesn’t have to be to get the lowest possible price (contradiction, right?). Your real goal is to be happy with what you paid for the product. When I can afford it, I try to leave room for the salesman to make a decent commission.
Last thing. I need to stress this. DO NOT BE A DOUCHEBAG! Be curt, know what you want, be firm, don’t take BS, but don’t ever be impolite or rude. I’ve been on the receiving end, and it’s just not nice.
Sorry for the long post. If anybody has any further advice I’d love to hear it!
Which Virago is it btw? 250cc? 535cc? I’m no expert, but definitely google around and see what the “market rate” is. Don’t pay more unless you’re looking to do a favor to the seller.
eternal05ParticipantCongrats on your new bike! They really did a kick-ass job restyling the ’08+, didn’t they? Every once in a while I forget how sweet-looking the new Ninja is. You get so used to the way it handles and sounds that you forget that every non-motorcyclist on the street can’t tell you’re not riding a ZX-10R
Hey, one thing to watch out for (especially if you’re only 140 miles in): those tires. The stock tires are pretty crummy, but they’re especially crummy before they’ve been broken in. They usually say that it takes 50-100 miles to “break in” a street tire, but keep in mind that most of that mileage is in a straight line. The little new tire nubs were still there on the sides of my rear tire even after I had 800 or so miles on the bike thanks to all the straight up-and-down city riding I was doing. The edges of the tire will still be pretty fresh until you really get some miles in, so careful in the turns!
eternal05ParticipantBike #1: Ninja 250R
Love:
1) Mileage! 60-80mpg for the win!
2) Economics: cheap bike, cheap insurance, cheap maintenance (easy DIY), cheap to fix, cheap to replace.
3) You get to use all 6 gears every time you get on the bike.Not so much:
1) The sound…sounds like a lawn mower.
2) Ergonomics. You’ve heard it all.
3) First gear is annoyingly short. I’m sure it’s a necessity thanks to low power, but damn…Bike #2: GSX-R 600
Love:
1) Razor-sharp handling, zippy as hell.
2) Looks and sounds badass.
3) Surprisingly versatile on the street and in varying conditions, especially with engine mode selector.Not so much:
1) Insurance $$$$!
2) Almost never get out of 2nd gear unless I’m on a track or in higher-speed twisties.eternal05ParticipantWell, you know I was going to race Vin Diesel for his ricer (see, I only race for pinks), but I only had three tanks of nitrous for my twin-turbo Hayabusa…without that fourth tank there just really wouldn’t be much point, would there?
Also, my wheels are not nearly large enough or chrome enough. Anybody sell 22″ motorcycle rims? Preferably spinners. I’m thinking something like this:
…
…
You know, I should know better by now, but never in my wildest dreams did I think that a Google search for “chrome spinner motorcycle wheel” would return so many results…wtf.
eternal05ParticipantUnlike most forums, this entire site runs on software custom-built by the site’s creator. The reason a lot of those features don’t exist is because he hasn’t gotten around to implementing them.
eternal05ParticipantIt’s an invite-only website that has digital video available for just about every major race division (F1, WRC, MotoGP, AMA/World SBK, etc.).
Haha, I should have mentioned that. Did I have you thinking I wanted in on some underground street racing scene? Fast and Furious, here I come….
eternal05ParticipantAlright, before this deteriorates into a he-said-she-said back and forth mess:
What I meant by “contrivance” is that it does nothing to illegitimize the situation I offered up. Munch was trying to argue against use of throttle for accident avoidance under any circumstances. In order to contradict me, he cannot simply introduce a new hypothetical situation in which acceleration is not appropriate. He must respond to the situation I proposed and show why acceleration is not the appropriate response.
eternal05ParticipantThere is a “correct” way to crash. It’s hard to have the presence of mind in the moment, especially if crashing is not something you make a habit of (I hope that’s all of us). I’ve had the “good” fortune of crashing a ton on two-wheelers. I do a lot of road (bicycle) racing and mountain biking, and have suffered through quite a few pavement slides and fast decent low-sides (something like this). Knowing what to expect and how to react is key.
All of the popular motorcycle books talk about this to some degree, so I suggest you take a look at the Twist of the Wrist books (by Keith Code), Proficient Motorcycling by Hughes, and any others that look interesting to you.
As SantaCruz suggested, don’t let yourself give in too early to a crash. Just like in skiing/snowboarding/skateboard, you can often save yourself if you really try hard. On the other hand, if you’re REALLY going to crash, you have to accept it and do one major thing: relax. If you hold on to the bike, you will get hurt. If your muscles are tense and flexed, you will not slide easily, and may start to tumble unnecessarily.
Your goal if you go down, especially on a low-side, is just to slide. Sliding, as long as you don’t hit anything (a BIG if), is really quite safe. I don’t know if you ever watch pro racing, but guys crash all the time and, unless it’s a gnarly high-side, they usually slide a few hundred feet, hop up, and get on with their day. When you’re sliding, try to keep yourself sliding by using your legs and elbows (anything that’s padded/armored) to resist tumbling. Keep your head tucked and off the ground so that passing over a rock or pothole doesn’t give you a blow to the noggin. As long as you can keep sliding and get off the road ASAP, you’ll probably be fine. It’s tumbling that breaks bones and causes the serious injuries.
Finally, when you come to a stop, don’t hop up right away. This is VERY important. Especially if you’ve done a bunch of flips or rolls, your inner ear may have been played the fool, and you could be disoriented/dizzy to the point of not accurately judging your speed. If you think you’ve come to a stop in a safe place, wait a second. Make sure you’re stopped, and then SLOWLY get up on your knees, and then your feet. It’s a common “legend,” but it really does happen: I’ve “come to a stop,” tried to stand up, and found myself still moving!
Other than that, it’s all blind luck on the road. There are so many things to hit that you really just have to try to relax your body, watch out for things you can avoid, and hope for the best.
eternal05ParticipantYes, there are situations in which accelerating are not appropriate. There are plenty of situations in which accelerating is appropriate, and optimal. This doesn’t need to be a debate about best practice or default reactions. I’m not encouraging recklessness, but you know perfectly well that there are times when you will roll on the throttle to get out of harms way.
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