[eon]

In the beginning I would have said no, it did not help. Later on I was not so sure. There are a few areas where I think it helped.

– Avoiding the so called “death grip”. Does not take much experience on a bicycle to realize you need a loose grip whenever going over rough ground.
– Exposure to traffic while feeling pretty vulnerable. Not sure how others coped but I rode away from the dealer at 5pm midweek in downtown Seattle without thinking twice about it.
– Might also have helped my confidence in leaning into turns.
– Braking. Probably the biggest gain was the experience in understanding what the feedback through the brake levers mean at a subconscious level (especially on a scooter where the braking setup is identical)

But I think these were small gains in the overall scheme of things.

[eon]

100% agree that a correctly fitting helmet is the main aim and is worth paying for if that’s what it takes. When I tried on the Arai Profile I just knew it was the one for me despite the cost. Worth pointing out for the new folks that Arai makes helmets in different shell shapes so don’t give up on them if the first one you try on does not fit. I believe all others have the same basic shape and just change graphics and vents (but I could be wrong on this).

I’m going to disagree slightly with some of the advice above. While I have no doubt the exterior shells all have more or less the same protective ability, the interior fit can make a difference. Both my Scorpion EXO-400 and and Arai Profile are for 60cm oval type heads but the Scorpion has much thicker inside padding. Kind of like squeezing your head into a sponge. The Arai by contrast just fits, more like putting on a glove. This extra inside padding does not help in a crash and I believe is more dangerous as it allows your head to move around within the helmet.

But I *think* this is a small concern. I would not hesitate to recommend a Scorpion to a new rider if the $400 saved was spent on good boots, jacket etc. The top of the line helmet can come later.

[eon]

Since you are in Europe you will have a lot more choices available to you in the small bike segment. Most of the contributors on this forum are based in the USA and over here the choices are depressingly limited. I would make sure to check some local websites to see what bikes are available to you. The price structure may be completely different also since scooters are more popular over there so may sure to check around.

I understand how difficult it is to get started. I also had no-one local to help out when I started so I bought new from a dealer as it made life easier. More expensive but simpler. Also I know that it is much harder to get your license there (I am from the UK myself) but it will make you a better rider because of it. It was very easy to get my license but I continue to take training classes. It takes a long time to get really good at this and I will be learning for a long time yet. Your training is just mandatory, that’s all

Best of luck with everything. It is a bit overwhelming in the beginning but very exciting as well. I’ve made a ton of good friends from this and had some amazing experiences. Looking forward to reading about your future exploits.

[eon]

Here is the result of that hit. Imagine having this on your face.

[eon]

LOL…I was in the same position as you 2 years ago. I was so undecided the two bikes on my list were the Ninja 250 and the Kawasaki Vulcan 500 (cruiser), but I somehow ended up with a 3 wheel scooter. That shows you how undecided I was! These days I want a dual sport. I still want that Ninja 250 but that will have to wait.

Your needs (storage, touring, commuting) are pretty common and don’t rule out many bikes but obviously some are more suited to those tasks than others. I would say large scooters are very suited to those requirements as they have great built in storage and fantastic weather protection. The down side is they are expensive and have lots of breakable plastic in case of a drop. They are also typically heavy so make sure to check the weight of that Burgman before you decide to buy.

I will add that the handling of scooters is supposed to be poorer than an equivalent motorbike as a lot (most) of them have what is called ‘unsprung’ weight. This means the engine is not mounted in the frame like a bike but on the back wheel but I’m not sure how significant this is for a beginner. Can’t say I’ve felt any handling problems but it may be I will only notice this difference when I get a regular bike.

[eon]

I cannot comment on the relative merits of the half helmet models as I’m another FF only guy but I do ride with people who wear half helmets. One thing to consider is that apparently riding in rain above 40mph gets painful. So much so that these guys frequently carry a FF with them in case of bad weather. That just sounds like way too much hassle to me.

I would add to the concerns of riding in a half helmet without a decent size windshield in front of you. Just this weekend I had a bird strike at 60mph about the level of my chin but thankfully it hit my windshield. Even with a FF if that had hit my head it would have been bad but in a half helmet I have no doubt I would have gone down.

Just something to consider.

[eon]

I have a 500cc scooter and have ridden with guys who have the Burgman 400. That is a great scooter and would make a great first bike. I’ve found that the larger class scooters (400cc and above) don’t fit into a nice classification. They are not part of the scooter sub-culture and they are not really bikes but they are no more different than a cruiser is from a sport bike. But none of that matters if all you want to do is ride.

I ride with a group that is mostly cruiser riders and some of them have admitted to me they had a scooter prejudice before they started riding with me. Now they know they cannot keep up with me in the twisties and want me to lead rides.

As you ride you will learn what type of riding appeals to you and you will slowly find a group who have similar tastes. Honestly that is much more important that what type of bike you have, so if a 400cc scooter appeals to you I say go for it.

[eon]

LOL…or the V-Star 650 v S40

[eon]

Interesting and articulate write up there. Hopefully it will answer a few questions for newbies to this site. Have to confess I’ve been getting depressed with the number of “I know nothing about bikes but want a GSX-R” posts recently. If you know nothing about bikes but know you want that bike then you really do not want to ride it, you want to pose with it. Not sure how many folks get the message that it’s not really a great idea.

[eon]

Now that I have a little experience (2 years, 16000 miles), I would still like to own a Ninja 250. I now know that almost all of the fun when riding is in the twisties and there power counts for nothing. Unless you are taking it to the track you simply cannot use the power of the larger bikes as 9 times out of 10 my corner speed is based on how far I can see, not how fast I can go.

I’m glad you guys can spell out the differences between the various 600cc bikes out there as I confess I can never keep it straight. The combination of letters and numbers guarantees I will never remember which is which

[eon]

But she might suffocate on the way back?

[eon]

In the basic class they provide the bikes. They want you to learn without worrying about dropping your own bike (and the bikes do get dropped).

[eon]

That is very odd. Who the hell is going to make a commitment to buy something before they know the price? I understand they have to weed out the tire kickers but not at the expense of turning away legitimate buyers.

[eon]

Take the MSF class first. Depending on your State you may need to have your permit before hand (not sure about CA). You will find all the gear you need for the MSF class in your closet (boots, long sleeves) as you will be lucky to hit 20mph in the class. Most classes supply helmets but that was the once piece of gear I bought before the class.

Getting some riding gear is the next step as it is hard to ride your bike home without any. Insurance will factor into what bike you can afford, especially for a 17 year old male, so make sure to check out the rates on the bikes that interest you before buying.

I disagree with madjak on the heavy pair of jeans. Those will not provide adequate protection (either impact or abrasion) on any slide at speed. Everyone comes to their own conclusion on how much gear is enough but for me it is everything; boots, pants, jacket, gloves and full face helmet.

[eon]

47hp more than enough power to start on and it will easily keep up with traffic with both you and your girlfriend on that back. You will notice it is always riders to be who have concerns over weight and being able to keep up. It is rare for experienced riders to mention this and when they do, it is always the 250 class.

For comparison, madjak and his bike combined weigh 655lbs with 47hp.
Me and my scooter weigh 713lbs with 40hp.

In 16,000 miles of riding I have rarely wished for more power as I leave cars in my dust without even trying. The only time more power would be nice is on long straights at higher speeds. That would be nice to have but is not essential to have. In all honestly I have started eying the little Ninja 250 as a second bike. I think something that light would be hoot to ride on country roads. Riding in straight lines is boring and I have no interest in 100+mph. You don’t have to look far for find very experienced riders having a blast on that thing and shaming the larger bikes in the corners.

Oh and in case it’s not obvious to you, you want to wait a long time before putting your girlfriend on the back. Having a passenger completely alters the dynamics of a bike and you should be experienced riding alone before even attempting to do that.

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