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Re-Post from BeginnerBikes.com…
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May 21, 2010 at 4:26 am #3984madjak30Participant
This is a two piece post I found on TMW that is a re-post from Ben’s old favorite site…beginnerbikes.com
WARNING: DO NOT POST ANY “But I bought a GSZRCBRZX and will ride it with respect, etc. etc.” THAT IS TOTAL HORSE POO…
Form Equals Function: Sportbikes are Not Beginner Bikes by Matt PickeringIntroduction:
Well, another riding season is upon us and as it always happens, we get lots of inquiries from potential new riders on how to get into the sport, what’s a good first ride, where to take safety classes and so on. One particular type of inquiry that pops up with almost clockwork frequency is from a small number of new riders who wish to buy 600cc and up sportbikes as their first ride.
For the past year and a half, I, along with lots of other BB forum members, have entertained this question of 600cc sportbikes for a first ride with patience and lots and lots of repetition. It seems this small group of newbies keep coming back with the same arguments and questions over and over again. As a result, I am going to take the time in this column to try and put into words, answers that get repeated over and over on the BB forums.
Allow me to state first and foremost that I am a sport rider. My first bike was a Ninja 250R and I put nearly 7000 miles on it in two seasons before selling it. I am presently shopping for my next ride and it will almost certainly be a sportbike or sport tourer in the 600-1000cc range. I am also building a track bike in my garage which I hope to complete this season (a Yamaha FZR600). Although I am not an expert rider by any stretch, I have tinkered enough and done enough research along with talking with other riders to be able to speak with some degree of knowledge on the subject.
This column is split into two parts. First, I would like to address the common arguments we see here as to why a 600cc sportbike simply must be a first ride along with rebuttals. Second, I want to cover the rationale behind why the BB community-at-large steers new riders away from these machines.
False Logic
On about a three month interval, a whole slew of questions pop up on the BB forum from potential riders trying to convince the community that a 600cc sportbike is a suitable first ride and then proceed to explain to us why they are the exception. I can almost set my clock to this pattern of behavior since it is almost swarm-like. I guess the newbies figure by swamping the forum with the same questions in lots of places we might trip up and endorse such a machine. Hasn’t happened yet but they keep on trying.
For those of you that come to Beginner Bikes trying to convince us to endorse a 600cc sportbike, I offer you the following responses to your arguments.
#1: I can only afford to get one bike so it might as be the one that I want.
AND
#2: I don’t want to go through the hassle of buying and selling a used bike to learn on.
These two lines of reasoning pop up as one of the more common arguments. I am going to offer first a piece of wisdom which is stated with great regularity on the forums:
This is your first bike, not your last.
Motorcycle riders are reputed to change bikes, on average, once every two to three years. If this is the case (and it appears to be based on my observations), the bike you learn to ride on will not be in your garage in a few years time anyway whether you buy it new or used. You’re going to sell it regardless to get something different, newer, more powerful, more comfortable, etc.
Yes, buying a bike involves effort and a financial outlay. Most of us simply cannot afford to drop thousands of dollars on a whim every time we want to try something new. Getting into riding is a serious commitment in time and money and we want the best value out it as much as possible.
However, if you can afford to buy outright or finance a 600cc or up sportbike that costs $7000 on average, you can probably afford to spend $2000 or so on a used bike to learn on. Most of the beginner sportbikes we recommend here (Ninja 250/500, Buell Blast, GS500) can all be found used for between $1500-$3000.
Done properly, buying and selling that first bike is a fairly painless process. Buying a used bike is no harder than buying new. I would argue it is a bit easier. No different than buying a used car from a private seller. If you’ve done that at least once, you’ll know what to do in buying a used bike.
Selling a beginner bike is even easier. You want to know why? Because beginner bikes are constantly in demand (especially Ninja 250s). These bikes spend their lives migrating from one new rider to the next to act as a teaching vehicle. It is not uncommon for a beginner bike to see four or five different owners before it is wrecked or junked. There are a lot of people out there looking for inexpensive, reliable bikes and all of our beginner recommendations fit into that category.
If you buy a used Ninja 250R for $1500, ride it for a season or two, you can be almost guaranteed that you will be able to resell that bike for $1300 or so when you are done with it provided you take care of it. And on a bike like the Ninja 250R, the average turnaround on such a sale is two to three days. No joke. I had five offers on my Ninja 250R within FOUR HOURS of my ad going up on Cycle Trader. I put the bike on hold the same day and sold it four days later to a fellow who drove 500 miles to pick it up. My bike never made it into the print edition. Believe me, the demand is there.
And look at it this way: For those one or two seasons of riding using the above example, excluding maintenance costs which you have no matter what, you will have paid a net cost of $200 to ride that Ninja. That is extremely cheap for what is basically a bike rental for a year or two. Considering it can cost $300 or more just to rent a 600cc sportbike for a weekend (not including the $1500-$2000 security deposit), that is economic value that you simply cannot argue with.
Vanity Arguments
#1: The beginner bikes you recommend are dated and ugly looking.
#2: I want something that’s modern and stylish.
#3: I want a bike that looks good and that I look good on.
I call these the vanity arguments. These are probably the worst reasons you can have for wanting a particular bike.
I will not disagree that aesthetics plays a huge part in the bikes that appeal to us. Motorcycles are the ultimate expression in personal taste in vehicles. Far more than cars. Bikes are more personal and the connection between rider and machine is far more intimate on a bike than a car. On a bike, you are part of the machine, not just a passive passenger.
However, as entry into world of riding and with the temporarily status that most beginner bikes have in our garages, looks should be the least of your concerns. As long as the bike is in good repair and mechanically sound, that is usually enough for most new riders to be happy. Most riders are happy to ride and they will ride anything given the choice between riding or not riding.
If you are looking at bike mainly because of how it looks and/or how you will look it and how others will perceive you on it, take a good, long, honest look as to why you want to ride. There are lots of people out there who buy things strictly because of how it makes them appear in the eyes of others. It’s shallow and vain but it is a fact of life. It shouldn’t be a factor in choosing that first ride but it is. I won’t deny that.
The difference is: a BMW or Mercedes generally won’t be leaving you hanging on for dear life if you stomp on the accelerator or throw you into the road if you slam on the brakes a little hard. Virtually ever sportbike made in the past 10-15 years will do both of those things given a chance to do so (for reasons that will be explained later in this column).
The population at large may think you’re cool and look great on that brand new sportbike and ohh-and-ahh at you. The ohhs can quickly turn to screams of horror should, in your efforts to impress the masses, you wind up dumping your bike and surfing the asphalt. Will you still look cool with thousands of dollars in damage to that once-beautiful sportbike and with the signatures and well-wishes of your friends on the various casts you’ll be wearing months afterwards?
You Be The Judge
#1 I’m a big rider so I need a bigger bike to get me around.
#2 I’m a tall rider and all of those beginner bikes just don’t fit me the way the sportbike does.
#3 I’ll look huge and foolish riding on such a small bike.
#4 My friends will laugh at me for riding something so small.
These arguments are almost as bad as the vanity arguments. The difference being is they simply show a lack of motorcycle knowledge for the most part.
Unless you are over 6’3″ tall or are extremely overweight (meaning well over 300lbs), even the smallest 250cc motorcycle will be able to accommodate you without difficultly. To provide an example, the Ninja 250R has a load limit of 348 pounds. That is more than sufficient to accommodate a heavier rider in full gear and still leave plenty of space for cargo in tank, tail and saddle bags. Or enough to allow two-up riding between two average weight individuals.
The idea that bigger riders need bigger bikes is almost laughable. It’s like saying small drivers need Honda Civics but bigger drivers only 100 pounds heavier need to drive Hummers to get around. Or Corvettes with plenty of power to pull their ample frames, as the analogy goes. It is only because of the small physical size of bikes compared to their users that this train of thought even exists. It simply doesn’t hold up to scrutiny. A look at any motorcycle owner’s manual will confirm that for you.
Tall riders suffer more from fit issues than weight issues. On this, they do have a point. I’m a taller rider (6’1″). I do fold up quite comfortably on the Ninja 250 which is considered a small bike. I found it perfect for my frame. Others haven’t. Then again, my knees hit the bars on bikes like the Rebel 250 and Buell Blast. Just different ergonomics that didn’t fit me.
For taller riders, a much better beginner fit is a dual-sport machine rather than a sport machine. They offer the high seat heights that make them comfortable rides and their power is well within acceptable limits. We have a small but vocal dual-sport community here and they will tell you, quite rightly, that a dual-sport is just as capable on twisty roads as a sportbike. The same properties that give sportbikes their cornering ability is also possessed by dual sports (high center of gravity).
As to peer pressure, I admit to taking more than my fair share of ribbing from my 600cc riding friends. Some of it good natured, some of it not. In the end, this argument falls into the vanity arena. Which is more important: Your safety and comfort on a bike or what your friends think?
The ways to deal with friends giving you a hard time about a smaller ride is very simple. Tell them to ride their rides and you’ll ride yours. It’s your ride, after all. Most true riders will accept other riders, no matter what they are on. Only posers and losers care that your ride doesn’t measure up to their “standards”. And if so, do you really want to be riding with them anyway? It’s more fun to stand out than to be a member of a flock anyway. And if they don’t buy that line of reasoning, try this one: “Well if you don’t like my ride, why don’t you go buy me something that you will like?”. THAT will shut them up REALLY fast. It works too. Unless their name is on the payment book or the title, it shouldn’t be their concern.
If your friends can’t deal with your decisions, you’re probably better off looking for new friends. And if you can’t deal with the peer pressure, then you are putting your own safety at risk solely because of what others think. Revisit the vanity arguments above and think about why you want to ride.
Decision Justification Arguments
#1: I’ll take it easy and grow into the bike.
#2: I’m a careful driver so I’ll be a careful rider and not get into trouble.
#3: I drive a fast car so I’ll be able to handle a fast bike.
#4: Other people have started on a 600cc sportbike and didn’t get hurt. So why can’t I?
These arguments are the most common ones put forth and the ones that are hardest to deal with. These are the arguments that start flame wars. Because it is on these arguments that you have to convince someone the idea of what a beginner bike is over their preconceived notions.
The arguments also often surface in what I call the “decision justification arguments”. Many new riders have their heart set on a specific bike and often come to BB to ask about it not to get real advice but to get confirmation that their decision is right. In cruisers, standards, scooters and dual-sports, more often than not these “pre-decisions” are generally good ones. In sportbikes, more than 3/4 of the posters are trying to get the community to approve their choice of a 600cc machine as a first ride. Their shock is quite real when they are barraged with answers that don’t meet their expectations and that is when a flurry of oft-repeated discussion ensues.
Let’s take each argument in turn since these are the ones that turn up with regularity.
I’ll take it easy and grow into the bike.
The purpose of a first bike is to allow you to master basic riding skills, build confidence and develop street survival strategies. You don’t grow into a bike. You develop your skills on it. As your skills develop, so does your confidence and with it, your willingness to explore what the bike is capable of.
But you are also entering in a contract with the bike. It is two-way. You are going to expect the bike to act on your inputs and the bike in turn is going to respond. The problem is, your skills are still developing but the bike doesn’t know that. It does what it is told. You want a partner in a contract to treat you fairly. On a bike, you don’t want it fighting you every step of the way. And like most contracts, the problems don’t start until there is a breakdown in communication or a misunderstanding.
In sportbikes, the disparity between a new rider’s fledgling skills and the responsiveness of the machine are very far apart. That is a wide gulf to bridge when you are still trying to figure out what the best inputs and actions on the bike should be. Ideally, you want your bike to do what you tell it and do it nicely. You never want the bike to argue with you. Modern sportbikes, despite their exquisite handling will often argue violently right at the moment a new rider doesn’t need them to.
Remember, riding is a LEARNED skill. It does not come naturally to the majority of us (save those like the Hayden brothers who were raised on dirt bikes from the moment they could walk). It must be practiced and refined. Riding is counter-intuitive to most new riders. It doesn’t happen the way you expect. For example, at speeds over 25mph, to get a bike to go right, you actually turn the bars to the left. It’s called counter-steering and it eventually comes naturally as breathing once you’ve been in the saddle for a while. But for new riders, this kind of thing is utterly baffling.
You want your skills to grow in a measurable and predictable fashion. You have enough to be fearful of riding in traffic. The last thing you need is to be fearful of what your bike might do when you aren’t ready for it. It’s never a good situation.
It is interesting to point out that only one manufacturer, Suzuki, explicitly states in their promotional material that their GSX-R family of sportbikes are intended for experienced riders. This also applies to several of their larger, more powerful machines (such as a GSX-1300R Hayabusa). If Suzuki issues such a warning for its top-flight sport machines, it is reasonable to say that the same warning would apply equally to similar machines from other manufacturers.
“I’m a careful driver so I’ll be a careful rider and not get into trouble.”
This is what I call the “I’m responsible and mature” argument. This one is a general excuse and does not apply to sportbikes in particular.
Recent studies have shown that 90% of all drivers feel that they have average to above-driving abilities compared to other drivers on the road. These drivers also said that they think 60% of those on the road are less skilled than they are. It’s an interesting perception as it indicates a mentality that everyone else is sub-par, not you. Obviously someone has to be wrong because the percentages just don’t add up.
A proper attitude towards driving as well as riding is essential. But these same drivers who see themselves as superior also engage in dangerous driving habits (aggressive weaving, illegal passing, bad merges, following too close, lack of attention to traffic/road conditions, etc). Very few drivers are truly honest with themselves and their ability to handle a vehicle.
The problem is, on a bike, the perception that you are responsible is not enough. On a bike, you must be. You either learn to be or you are going to be in trouble really quick. In talking with other riders I have found that they tend to be much more defensive and thoughtful drivers behind the wheel because riding raises their perception of their surroundings.
Ultimately, responsible and mature does not equate to riding skill. It has nothing to do with it except how you will approach riding in general. You want to know the sign of a responsible rider? Look at their gear. Are they in full safety gear? Watch them ride. If you are seeing them turn their heads to clear their blind spots, making careful and smooth maneuvers, leaving a nice, safe amount space around them and working to maximize your chance of seeing and knowing what they are doing, then you are looking at a responsible rider.
Now do the same exercise and watch the drivers around you. How many turn their heads to check their blind spots, signal lane changes, leaving several car lengths of space in front of them, weave in and out of traffic or dash to the end of a ramp and then attempt to force themselves onto the highway rather than yield like they are supposed to? I’m willing to bet it’s not going to be a pretty significant percentage. Now imagine these same individuals on a bike. I’m sure you’ll be able to spot more than a few of these types on bikes to (just look for the T-shirts and flip-flops as they blast by you at 100mph on the Interstate on the right).
How you approach the task of driving is how you will approach riding. Attention to the task of riding is the number one way you avoid trouble by not getting into it in the first place. Study your own driving habits. Good habits will definitely keep your chances of getting into trouble but they have little to do with controlling a motorcycle. Any motorcycle. Many lax drivers often become much better drivers as the result of riding a motorcycle. It is far less common for it to go in the other direction.
“I drive a fast car so I’ll be able to handle a fast bike.”
Of all the excuses and justifications, this one is my personal favorite. It is in the top three most common excuses given and it shows a complete and utter lack of motorcycle knowledge. It is a statement made out of naivety rather than ignorance.
Most of the folks who make this statement own fast cars (Corvette, Mustang, Acura, modified Civic, etc) or think they do. The belief is that if you can drive fast in a car you can handle a bike that can go fast. I would argue unless these folks race cars on weekends, driving a car that can go fast does not make them a experienced high-speed driver. And for those that do understand how to handle a car at high speed, it gives you knowledge of braking and traction but even that knowledge is useless for one simple reason:
Bikes are not cars.
Braking, traction control, acceleration and handling are totally different on a motorcycle. Cars do not lean. Bikes do. When bikes lean, it changes the part of the tire contacting the ground (the contact patch/ring) and changes the stability and dynamics of the bike from moment to moment. The physics of motorcycle control are in a league of their own. Even the ability to race cars will not give you instant godhood on a motorcycle.
Are you aware that a racing motorcycle (any 600cc supersport made today basically) when it is turning is touching the ground with an amount of rubber equal to a couple of postage stamps? The same applies to any street bike at deep lean angles except they don’t have the advantage of a smooth surface to hold on to or sticky race tires. Now imagine having to control the power and the amount of traction you are getting in that space.
Like being responsible, the ability to handle a car at high speed has nothing to do with handling a fast motorcycle. You are missing two wheels, a cage and a seatbelt on a bike. Turning at 70mph becomes a whole different world on a motorcycle compared to car. Braking is a different experience too. It is fairly hard to stand a car on its front fender if you stomp on the brakes. It can be done with two fingers, a good amount of speed and a moment of panic on a sportbike. The only cars that have brakes equal or better than that of a sportbike built in the last 10 years is a Formula One race car.
The skills to handle the potent combination of acceleration, instant-on power and brakes are best learned on a smaller machine so when you finally get on that ultimate sportbike, you have an idea of what to do and how to handle the machine. Driving a car won’t give you that. Only time in the saddle, the more, the better.
“Other people have started on a 600cc sportbike and didn’t get hurt. So why can’t I?”
This is probably the number one reason that pops up. However, it isn’t so much a reason as an observation. And it is a true one. Every year, lots of new riders go to their local dealerships or scour their local ads and bring home a brand new or used 600cc sportbike. And many of those riders do successfully manage to get through their learning process on these machines.
The purpose of a first ride more than any other is to get the risk of riding for the first year or two as low as possible. You want your margin of forgiveness in the bike to be as wide as possible. A 600cc sportbike gives you very little of that. Yes, a 600cc down low is a tame if sensitive machine. However, it takes very little twist on the throttle to induce a large jump in rpm’s. A brief bump on a pothole with a death grip on the throttle can introduce a 4000rpm jump in the blink of an eye (speaking from personal experience). In an experienced rider’s hands, this is alarming but recoverable. A gentle rolloff or a little clutch feathering manages the surge nicely. In the hands of a newbie trying to figure out the best reaction to such a scare, a rapid closeoff or a panic brake is often the result and can get you into trouble very, very quickly.
Yes, a new rider can start on a 600cc sportbike. It is NOT RECOMMENDED! The reason this line of reasoning pops up so often is because everyone feels they are the exception rather than just another new rider. It makes sense. It’s hard to think of oneself as just another face in the crowd. As a rider, I know I am just another average rider. Although I have track aspirations, I have no doubt as to where my skill level is and it is definitely not in (or ever was) in the “start on a 600cc exceptional group”.
In the end, to deal with this line of reasoning is going to involve the new rider, not the one giving the advice. No one can stop that person from going out and buying a 600cc sportbike as a first ride. And maybe they will succeed and crow about all the bad advice they received on starting small. Great! They were the exception.
What you don’t hear about are the non-exceptional people. Very, very few new riders who start on 600s come back to talk about their experiences if they aren’t in the “I’ve had no problems.” group. On the forums recently, there have been a couple folks who admitted they got 600cc sportbikes to start on and indicated that it had been a less-than-ideal choice. This type of honesty is refreshing and it is very, very rare. I am grateful these riders stepped up.
Most of the time, we never learn the fate of those riders who start on 600s. Some make it and simply never bother to tell their tales except to friends. Some wind up scaring themselves so badly (by getting out of control or by actually dumping the bike and injuring themselves) that they sell off and never ride again. These types can be found. Just troll the ads for new supersports with one owner and low miles. The worst of this class of riders are the ones who become “born again safety advocates”. These riders who scare themselves out of riding occasionally become preachers that tell anyone who will listen that “motorcycles are dangerous and should be banned”. What they don’t tell those they are preaching to is how they got that way. It’s bad enough having to deal with the general public (who are at least honestly unaware of what riding is about) but a lot worse to be sabotaged from within by someone who did it to themselves and got in over their head.
Then there is the last group of these “started on a 600cc sportbike” riders that never tell us their tales. They never do because they can’t. Instead, they enjoying peaceful surroundings and occasional visits by bereaved family and friends. They made that one mistake, that one error that compounded into a tragedy of inexperience. They can never tell us what that error was so we can learn from it and maybe also tell us that they should have started on something smaller. They were successful right until the point their skills and luck ran out. This can happen to any of us on any bike. But, in the end, new riders on a powerful sportbike can be a recipe for disaster.
Be honest with yourself. Very honest. Take the advice and wisdom of others more experienced than you and consider what they are saying. They may have a point. But if you opt for that 600cc sportbike, be assured you will still be accepted as a rider and still encouraged to act as safely as possible at all times.
The Final Equation
We’ve covered the reasons why people justify or want to get a 600cc sportbike. But we have one more thing to answer and it is simple: What makes these bad bikes to start on?
Sportbikes are built as racing machines, pure and simple. They are built in response to guidelines laid down by racing bodies for a particular class and made to win races in that class. Ducati, for example, spends most of their existence building bikes to win races. Since 1950, Ducati was always a racing bike manufacturer first and their products reflected that philosophy. A by-product of winning races is the fact that people see those winning machines and want to ride them (if you’re going to ride, you might as well ride the best as it goes). It didn’t take the motorcycle manufacturers long to figure out that there was a market demand for these machines and reacted accordingly.
Sportbikes represent a technological arms race. This has really become apparent in the past 5-10 years where new models eclipse last years models with better performance and capability with each passing year. To compare a 1989 Honda CBR600F Hurricane (the original CBR) to a 2003 CBR600RR is pointless. There is no comparison except in the model designation showing a distant family relation. The new CBR is lighter by at least 50 pounds and packs 30 percent more power, handling and braking ability that makes the original CBR look like a ponderous dinosaur. But just because that original CBR dinosaur has been eclipsed doesn’t make it any more tamable. If anything, older sportbikes are far more temperamental than the descendants.
Consider the fact that this year a privateer (independent racer) bought a Yamaha YZF-R1 off the showroom floor, took off the lights and mirrors, added a race belly pan, exhaust and tires and placed in the top ten at the AMA Superbike race at Daytona. The bike was two weeks off the floor and basically stock (the modifications with the exception of the pipe are required). Since factory sponsored teams tend to take the top slots, any privateer that can break in the top ten is doing well by anyone’s definition.
Because sportbikes (and especially 600s since they compete in the most populous racing class out there) are designed first as racing machines, they are built with handling, acceleration and speed in mind. Not just one quality at the expense of others but all of them in abundance! Centralizing the mass of the bike at the center of gravity (CoG) gives the bike neutral stability. The high riding position and the perching of the rider over the CoG gives the bike the ability to flick over rapidly.
The steering geometry and short wheelbase of these bikes is designed to provide short and rapid directional changes. Combined with the higher CoG and mass centralization, the steering setup is what gives sportbikes their amazing turning ability.
Engine designs vary but have settled on V-twins and inline fours as the preferred choices. The sportbike V-twins are liquid-cooled, high-rpm engines designed to generate massive torque (hence acceleration) and power in the mid-range of their design limits. Witness the success of Nicky Hayden and Miquel Duhamel on the Honda RC51 in AMA Superbike as testament to the massive grunt these engines put out. So potent in fact that the AMA changed the rules for the following season to even the odds between the V-twins and inline fours. The inline four equipped bikes simply couldn’t outpower the twins on curvy portions of the race circuit.
The inline four is by far the most common engine layout in sportbikes including all 600cc sport designs (the Ducati 620SS has a V-twin but is air-cooled and the bike is not a racing machine). All of the sportbikes that new riders lust after are equipped with this engine design. High-rpm capability (redlines vary between 11K and 16K rpm), liquid cooled and designed to produce peak power at very high rpms. The inline four delivers smooth and increasing power as the throttle is opened. Power tends to build to the peak point, at which power the engine will tend to surge to peak power and fall off as the peak point is crossed. Although nowhere near as bad as a race-tuned two-stroke (which literally double their horsepower as the engine transitions to peak power), the engine displays its roots as a racing thoroughbred.
A 1mm or 1/16 of an inch twist of the throttle can easily result in a 2000-4000rpm jump. You can be cruising along at a sedate 4000rpm, hit a pothole and suddenly find the bike surging forward with the front end getting light at 7000rpm. Definitely unnerving the first time you experience it.
And then there are the brakes. Braking technology has gotten progressively more potent over the past ten years. Even older sportbikes sport twin disc setups with two or four piston calipers designed to get these bikes down from 150mph to 60mph as quickly as possible. Current generation bikes are unreal. These brakes have grown to six piston calipers with massive discs whose sole job is to slow a 180mph missile down to corner speed in the shortest distance possible. If you ever watch racers, notice that they tend to only use two fingers to brake. They don’t need anymore than that. The brakes are almost too powerful. And accidents happen on the track a lot due to bad or late braking.
All of these qualities produce an exquisite riding machine. The problem is, all of these qualities are designed to operate at extremes since it is under extreme conditions that these bikes are intended to operate. For the street, these capabilities are overkill. A hard squeeze of the front brake on the street can easily get a sportbike to lock its front wheel. Same applies to an over-aggressive stomp on the rear brake. No matter which way you slice it, highsides hurt.
The powerful engine can literally get you from 0 to 45mph in the blink of an eye in first gear. Come up one gear and you can be at 70mph with the slightest drop of your wrist. Add in one bump at speed without knowing what the throttle is going to do and suddenly you aren’t at 70mph anymore. You’re at 90+ mph and the bike is tickling its “sweet spot”. At this speed, you better not panic. If you botch the slowdown from this error (either by a rapid rolloff or a shift), you can find yourself in serious trouble.
The handling capabilities of sportbikes actually make them wonderful machines to ride once you are used to thinking where you want to go. This actually gives them great beginner qualities (if on the extreme end). The downside is this perfect handling is slaved to amazing power on tap and the brakes that can back it off just as quickly.
In the final equation, a 600cc sportbike is little more than a racing machine with street parts bolted on. They aren’t designed for street use; they are adapted to it. But no compromises are made in that transition. The same R6, GSX-R600, ZX-6RR or CBR600RR you can buy off the showroom floor can be converted in an afternoon, be at the track the next day and wind up winning races. And the sportbikes from 10 years ago were the R6s, Gixxers, Ninjas and CBRs of their day. They possessed the same qualities that their modern descendants do just not with the same maximums. Even today on the street, a 15 year old sportbike is little different than its 2003 cousin. The 2003 might accelerate quicker, stop shorter and lean farther but at the speeds us mortals ride at, there will be little difference.
Sportbike technology has gone an amazing distance in twenty years. Performance and ability has almost doubled in that time. But rider ability has not and a new rider from 20 years ago would still have the same challenges then as a new rider would today on an R6. Sportbike form evolved to meets its function: to win races. Always has, always will. And riders will lust after these technological marvels for that reason. Can you start out on one? Yes. But you can also pretend to be a GP racer on a smaller sportbike that gives up nothing to its bigger brothers where most of us spend our riding days. It is always more satisfying to smoke a 600cc or 1000cc sportbike in the twisties on a Ninja 250 or GS500 than a bigger bike.
But when you are ready to answer the call of the Supersport, they will be waiting for you and you’ll be better off having honed your skills on the smaller sportbike. Supersports are not beginner bikes. But they make great second and third bikes.
The choice is yours.
May 21, 2010 at 6:53 am #26628eonParticipantInteresting and articulate write up there. Hopefully it will answer a few questions for newbies to this site. Have to confess I’ve been getting depressed with the number of “I know nothing about bikes but want a GSX-R” posts recently. If you know nothing about bikes but know you want that bike then you really do not want to ride it, you want to pose with it. Not sure how many folks get the message that it’s not really a great idea.
May 21, 2010 at 3:46 pm #26630madjak30ParticipantJust to be clear, this wasn’t my words, but when I read it I thought that really answers a lot of the comments that we are seeing reapeatedly in here…It’s a little longer that I would have liked to post, but it really covers a lot of ground.
I’m still new to this, so I don’t want to over step my bounds with giving advise…but there are quite a few newbies that are not getting the message of the site.
Just my two cents.
May 21, 2010 at 7:57 pm #26633gregjParticipantthanks alot for the post dude…. i know i have been buggin everybody on this subject so this is a perfeect article for me….. I’m not trying to make an arguement as to why i’m the exception and not the rule i just want to make sure i make the all around best desicion. Like u said it’s hard to see yourself as just another face in the crowd but this is what you have to do to ensure safety. After this post i think i will go with the GS500. i still can’t bring myself to getting something as small as a 250 but then again i know nothing except for the number that i see and that steers me away. I would like a good bike to learn on but also when i’m preparred enough i would like it to be enough to go 2 up on the freeway. From what i’ve heard the GS500 should do this without much struggle. Well anyways good job on the post. “mission accomplished”. i know have a better view as to why this advice is being given. Well please give me your thoughts on the differences between the ninja and the GS. thanks for everything and sorry if we’re running circles around this matter but like i said i would like to make a well educated desicion.
May 21, 2010 at 8:28 pm #26635Joseph HannaParticipantYou know Greg I’ve had an Intruder 800 for 3 years now. I mention that merely for perspective. I have a friend here however who has a 2010 Ninja 250 and that bike runs RINGS around my 800. Next to my Intruder I ride that Ninja 250 the most.
I’ll be damned if I had to pick one over the other I believe I’d be in a pickle. For canyon rides and all around nimble jaunts the Ninja 250’s got it all over the Intruder. It’s true if you want to keep up with gixers you’ll be winding the thing out but I’ve discovered there’s a great feel when that thing is kinda on the edge, wound out. Now the Gladius I rode was much quicker but if if you’re gonna ride that thing wound out as a beginner I’d think your days would be treacherous.
You know I’ve always thought for long day rides or even overnight rides the Intruder was the obvious choice. Honestly I’m not so sure. I’ve wound that Ninja out and I’m telling ya 70 mph comes in a heartbeat. My ego’s long left me so the thought of riding a Ninja 250 presents no problem and truth be told that little thing is a GREAT bike….period.
The SINGLE worst thing about a Ninja 250 is it’s forum reputation as a wimpy bike. It’s wimpy compared to bikes that have insane capabilities (like a busa) but how many times do you think you’ll wanna go 240 mph up the 405.
The Ninja 250 is a very cool bike. Don’t underestimate it
May 21, 2010 at 9:37 pm #26636gregjParticipantSo if the ninja250 is the best for canyon rides what would be best to start on for mostly city riding. Keep in mind that when there’s not traffic the pace of the freeways out here is about 80 mph.
May 21, 2010 at 10:28 pm #26637JackTradeParticipantFor either city or freeway work. It’s really a matter of your tastes at this point, which one feels/looks better to you. Most people tend to like the look of the Ninja better, though I personally like how the GS500 has somewhat retro looks (from the back, it looks like a sportbike from the 70s/80s).
The GS500f has more power due to the bigger displacement, but is of an older (if quite competent) design.
Ninja 250 looks more like a modern sportbike…most non-riders will have no idea it’s not a supersport. Handling on the Ninja is rumored to be better.
Oh, and Madjak, thanks for posting that….I read it back when I was first getting into riding, and couldn’t find it again later.
May 21, 2010 at 11:31 pm #26638gregjParticipantWould the ninja be able to go 2 up with myself weighing 195 lbs. and my gf weighing 130 lbs. and still hang on the highway keeping up with an 80 mph flow of traffic? (of course after lots of miles and practice)
May 21, 2010 at 11:42 pm #26639Joseph HannaParticipantHey Greg,
So hard to put into words. The Ninja 250 will do 80 mph with utter ease and do it all day long on the freeway’s out here. The comp ratio of the Ninja and therefore the powerband is COMPLETELY different than my Intruder. The Intruder will get up and go but in a completely different manner than the Ninja. Indeed a different feel
With the Intruder I gotta work through the gears and lumber (maybe “lumber” is a poor choice of words.. but close) up to 80. With the Ninja I can wind out 1st and 2nd and be damn close to 80 in a blink of an eye. I love the way the Ninja feels a bit wound out anyway and it’ll do 80 standing on it’s head. It will feel hi-rev but the bike likes hi-rev. As opposed to the Intruder that will do 80 but not NEARLY as smooth even though the rpm’s aren’t nearly as high.
I’m telling you Greg the Ninja 250r is MUCH more bike than your giving credit to. It’s just a fun little rocket. Will you want more?? Maybe but there really are some who never feel the need to go more than 90 in a blink of an eye.
Everytime I see a “busa” I wonder where that dude is gonna wind that thing out…can’t be done here in L.A. without running into something. You can wind that 250 flat out and it feels good…maybe great.
Just my 2 cents man
May 21, 2010 at 11:45 pm #26640Joseph HannaParticipantI’ve never ridden the Ninja 2 up but based on “my” experience I’m guessing it’ll do more than you could possible handle for now
May 23, 2010 at 11:48 am #26675eternal05Participant…that shouldn’t stop you. Here’s my history for perspective: started on a Ninja 250; got a GSX-R600 track bike; then got a DR-Z400sm city bike.
I wanted a GSX-R600 as my first bike. I REALLY did. They just looked so cool, and I’ve always been into sports cars, etc. One of my friends got a GSX-R600 as her first bike and loved it. And then I found this site. I ended up with a Ninja 250R and my god, was that the right decision. Having ridden the gixxer at 165mph at the track I can tell you with authority that, with the perspective I have now, I wouldn’t bother with a sportbike on the street. That’s why I bought the DR-Z (a supermoto bike). My slightly modded DR-Z still zips from 0-60 faster than a Porsche, but it tops out at 85 and has a friendly 400cc engine. It’s under 300lbs sopping wet, and it’s super easy to control, nimble, and stable at any legal speed. It can even haul passengers.
The honest truth is that, while they are gorgeous and sexy as all hell, true sportbikes aren’t really at home in the city. They’re really uncomfortable for long periods of time (read: over 30 minutes). They REALLY don’t like being ridden at low speeds. Any super-slow maneuvers like negotiating parking lots and u-turns are a royal pain in the ass. First gear is geared for 82mph. One second too much throttle can raise your speed 20mph. Too much front brake and the super-flickable steering geometry lets the front fork compress to the point of losing all rake (rake is the angle of the front forks; more rake means more stability and less ease in changing direction). At this point the bike because SUPER unstable (wants to just fall into a lean) and you can very easily endo the bike, tail over nose. Basically everything about it is geared for one very specific use, and one that doesn’t fit with city riding at all. Riding 2-up on a supersport is also incredibly uncomfortable and unsettling, both for you and your passenger.
The thing is, if what you really want is a city bike, I’d question whether or not you want a sportbike at all. Now the Ninja 250R is really just a standard in sportbike clothing, so I fully endorse that. It’s a fantastically fun bike…so much so that I still haven’t mustered up the guts to sell it. It will NOT however be a good bike for 2-up riding on the highway. You can do it, but I wouldn’t.
One more catch: you won’t be riding 2-up for a while (or at least, you shouldn’t be). The weight of a passenger, and the squeamishness of an inexperienced passenger in particular, can really change the way a motorcycle handles. All the things you struggle to do by yourself at the beginning will become difficult all over again when somebody gets on the back. For your safety, and that of your girlfriend, I would highly suggest waiting for at least several months (I would personally wait at least six).
I would also not get too caught up in your first bike. Most people in the motorcycling community get the itch for a second bike very quickly. They’ll either buy a second, or they’ll trade out their first. If your first bike is a Ninja 250, you can expect to sell it for almost what you paid. That gives you a lot of freedom to upgrade whenever you feel ready. I would suggest that route, but if you feel you must start a step up, I’d recommend the GS500 or some of the other low-displacement standards out there.
Anyway, sorry for blabbering, and good luck figuring things out.
May 29, 2010 at 3:11 pm #26817gregjParticipantthanks dude.
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