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We actually got caught in some snow but thankfully it did not last long or stick to the ground. Rain was freezing cold though but again we lucked out and only had bad weather for a small time. Everyone had appropriate gear with them though and other than some cold hands everyone was fine. You don’t head into those mountains without being prepared for the weather. Last summer I had 100′ temps east of the mountains but then winter weather on the way back home. Very dramatic change in temperatures.

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Madjak lives in Canada so technically it’s not the same MSF as the states. I think Kansas has the only msf class that goes out on the road but I don’t think that is part of the test.

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Actually that sounds like a good reason to take it. There might be something simple you are doing wrong that an experienced eye will pick up. It’s probably some confidence thing that prevents you from doing it on your own bike as I assume the bike can do it easy enough. I had a helluva of tome mastering it on my scooter as it is heavy with lots of breakable plastic parts. Made it hard to commit to such a low speed turn.

And as Owlie mentioned, you will be shocked at the so called “experienced” riders who wobble around.

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Not right now. Given the fact I’ve only ridden a bike with a clutch in the BRC that seems a little out of my league just now (though there are some who think a lack of bad habits is a plus). Maybe next year.

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You can also take the training in Seattle or Portland. At $1095 it’s not cheap but that is for 40 hours of training, which works out cheaper per hour than most advanced classes.

http://www.northwest-motorcycle.com/

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I would say it’s definitely a modifier to some other number. I’m sure age, profession, location, married and all sorts of other factors come into play, as well as more generic bike numbers. But it is interesting how one bike compares to another. It appears the type has a strong influence on the ratings. Unclad Sports seem to do well but any Super Sport and it’s bend over time. I’m surprised at the Harley Davidson ratings which on the whole are pretty damn good. You have the stereotype of bar hopping pirates and/or noobs buying too much bike yet the ratings are below industry standard. Even the v-rod gets a B,A,A?

Unless we are missing something important that jacks the rates for a v-rod way up and these ratings are comparing it to other 150hp bikes. Then I could understand the B,A,A rating.

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Ok, so this is getting to be a huge thread. I’ll avoid posting the rest of his story but Day 5 starts on page 11 of the original thread.

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I was hurting pretty bad this morning; I managed to pinch a nerve in my middle back when I was tying up my boots. I loaded up on Tylenol and Ibuprofen and headed out. Another student offered some Icy Hot so I applied that liberally before we started.

We fired the bikes up at 8:00 A.M. with the first hour for warm-up and practice. Like most others, I started slow on the slow cone weave and offset cone weave, then the 90 degree pull-out, both directions, then the intersection and the keyhole. I was feeling pretty good right away and was able to make clean passes on all of the exercises. The intersection, the 90 degree pullout and the keyhole all must be done in both directions. The pullout is no problem, but the keyhole and the intersection most certainly are. I can do them both with relative ease at this point going counter-clockwise, but clockwise is quite another story.

At 9:00 A.M. we split into 2 groups, one working on emergency braking and the other staying on the pad and practicing all of the exercises. I was up to do braking first and may have gone into it a little over-confident. On my first 40 mph pass I managed to lock the front wheel. Let me tell you, when this happens, you KNOW it’s happened. Serious pucker factor kicked in. Immediately release and properly reapply was drilled into us, so this is what I did and I managed to stay upright. The instructor said the wheel was locked for 6 to 8 feet…it felt further! I might have been a little gunshy after that, but finished out OK. One thing of note…I have a newfound appreciation for the newer Brembo brakes, be they ABS or not. I can really tell the difference when I get off of that bike and back onto my ’07. Brembo’s really are much better.

At about 10:30 it was our turn out on the pad. I worked almost exclusively on the intersection and the keyhole, trying and trying to get through them going clockwise. I did manage to whip the intersection several times and feel pretty good about that, but the keyhole apparently has my number.

After lunch our groups went off to braking and pad work again. Due to clutch issues with one of the bikes in the other group, they went to work on braking first and my group went to the pad. I went right back where I’d left off, working the intersection and keyhole clockwise. The intersection is definitely more challenging for me clockwise than it is counter-clockwise, but I’m at a point where I can usually get through clean in both directions. Note that I said usually. On one of my passes I went down on the right side and managed to get my leg caught up under the right side saddlebag. It twisted me right down to the ground…hard. I must have twisted the throttle with my right hand because the bike screamed and bounced back up, without me, and flipped over onto its left side. It was my first ugly, and painful, crash. I laid there for a minute making sure all my parts still worked and that nothing was broken. Damn that hurt. Ruined a good pair of blue jeans too.

My confidence was shaken at this point and the horn sounded for the groups to switch. We went out to work on braking for a while and all went well. I used the little bit of down time between runs to stretch and shake off my crash.

We then went on a group ride, cross-country style. Our training facility is next to a large city park and we were riding on the grass, up and down hills, on mountain bike trails, over ruts and holes. As far as I know, no one went down and it was kind of fun.

After the group ride we all went back to the pad to continue working. I’m stubborn, so I dove right back into the keyhole going clockwise. Crashed a few times, took out a lot of cones, but kept going back for more. I did eventually get through it clean a couple of time going clockwise, but it’s frustrating because I can do it counter-clockwise almost easily at this point. Why the big difference? It turns out that I’m not alone. Several of the students are having the exact same issues. I will get it, I refuse to let the keyhole win, but it’s frustrating.

My daily evaluation was frustrating as well. My marks either stayed the same or improved in all categories but one…head and eyes. Dammit I struggle forcing myself to turn my head. I know I’m doing it in the intersection, which might explain why I can successfully complete it in both directions, but I seem to look, and ride, straight into the ground when I do the clockwise keyhole.

Day 5 tomorrow will bring the last 2 new maneuvers, I know one of them involves emergency braking and swerving but I’m not sure about the other. It’s a 180 degree something or other, I have no idea.

Most of my peers are doing well. One of the best riders happens to be the only female in the class. She had almost no riding experience a week ago and is making some of this stuff look easy. I’m really pulling for her, she has a great attitude and wants very much to be the first certified female motor officer in Nebraska. I have no doubt that she’ll make it.

The guys who were frustrated yesterday are still frustrated today. One of them is openly talking about quitting, the other isn’t saying it but he’s really down and I can tell he’s thinking it. I went down about 8 times today, but only the one time hurt and shook me up. My right foot is getting stiff as I type this, I hope it isn’t messed up too bad. Thank God for over the ankle leather boots because I’m still having fun and can’t wait for tomorrow!

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What do you classify as vintage European style? I think covers a wide range of bikes from old Italians to old BMW’s to old Triumph’s. I know you can buy brand new Triumphs that have the old style but modern components. That might be your best place to start. Not so sure about vintage style German or Italian bikes other than some sweet looking Ducati’s (but I think they have 1000cc engines and a price to match).

Also, have a look at the Suzuki TU250. Has the same style (to my eyes) and would be a great first bike.

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I think riding is something like 10% knowledge/experience and 90% mental. I was leading a small group on Sunday for many hours across some great twisties. Towards the end someone else took the lead and I think the fact I was now following someone messed me up. And that was just turning left from a stand still at a traffic light! Nearly hit the curb on the exit of the corner (and even target fixated on the curb).

Last year I also felt I was such a slow poke, obvious noob. I would go into corners faster than I was comfortable with and scare the crap out of myself, frequently braking mid corner (the fact I could do that safely just confirmed how slow I was). After one scare too many I slowed down and concentrated on my technique and I think got faster as a result. I know I certainly enjoyed myself a whole lot more which is all I really care about. I’ve since watched an instructional video on how to corner (on the street) and that has helped a lot. One of the things I struggled with is late apexing. That’s easy if you can see through the corner but on most country roads round here you cannot. How can you late apex if you don’t know where the apex is exactly? This video helped me with that. Oh, and I now feel I corner at something like 80% of my ability. I rarely go as fast as I think I can, my speed is mostly determined by how far I can see.

Recently I’ve started moving my body around a lot more for corners. It’s not the easiest thing to do on a scooter and I’m not sure it’s the best thing to be doing. When I try and change things around though I frequently mess up. I guess I will be learning how to corner for a long time to come.

Munch: On my scooter forum a few folks were amazed at how quickly you can turn by both pushing and pulling at the same time. I tried it but didn’t like it. I would worry about applying too much force and snapping the wheel free of traction. It just felt like I had less finesse in how much force to apply. As far as push versus pull, I *think* pushing gives you finer control but I guess whatever works for you. As you say, it is a mental thing. Maybe Allen could explain why pushing is what is taught. (EDIT: I see he already has!). These days I don’t even think off it as pushing. To me I just lean into the corner. The other thing that helps me is the “kiss the mirrors” mantra. Not sure if that works on cruisers but it certainly helped me look through and lean into the corner.

We had some great weather here over the weekend. I went on a 350 mile ride over the mountains on Saturday (will post a video from that over in the video section). I think I did close to 1000 miles over 4 days here. Good times

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Can’t comment on this particular bike but I did go out and practice on my own one night, trying just back brake, then just front then both together. I can tell you both together stopped me a lot faster and was a lot harder to lock up (it was wet so locking up was quite easy).

I’m not sure why you are wobbling when you concentrate on the front. Just remember to squeeeeze the brake, I had a tendency to grab which gets you into all kinds of trouble. And then ease up slightly on the back as you squeeze more on the front. I’m sure you just need a little more practice. I felt as if I struggled with most of the exercises but after a little practice it would come together.

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That looks like waaaay too much fun. I’ve not been to a trackday yet so I can only guess how much fun that would be based on my karting experiences. I still remember my fantastic pass on the hairpin…..

Looks like you are getting very serious with this, having a coach and all, or is that par for the course once you start racing?

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I’m not an expert on cruisers (or much of anything) but here goes. Sportbikes and cruisers have different engine configurations and characteristics. They aim to deliver power in different ways so that is not too surprising. Even bikes that share the same engine (Ninja 500 and Vulcan 500), the engine has been tweaked to deliver power differently. There is so much more to how an engine behaves than simple cc’s but that is a convenient rough guide. Which is why a 600cc inline 4 is one to avoid but 650cc twins are (just barely) recommended here.

Your problem is most cruiser riders jump straight onto 1000cc or more so you have a very limited choice in this. Even at that engine size I believe the power on a cruiser is manageable but you start running into serious weight issues. Don’t underestimate the number of times as a beginner you will have (or nearly have) a zero mph drop. The weight of the machine beneath you will go a long way to determining if you can hold it upright or not.

I don’t know if the machine you are looking for exists. You might have to give serious consideration to buying something not quite your dream bike so that you have an easier time learning. Ride it for a year then upgrade.

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Well in those 105+ degree days I nearly passed out through heat exhaustion last year. Bought a mesh jacket soon after but it was an expensive one (RevIT Turbine). I feel more protected in it than my original Teknic Freeway jacket. Hope never to put it to the test!

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Sounds like you are using a lot of the resources I did when starting out. All good resources but you need to be able to go to your class with an open mind. One of the harder parts of a trainers job is to get people to unlearn their bad habits. You may be developing some bad habits that you are not aware of (such as wrist positioning). It’s hard to unlearn things. Just a FYI.

I did not have that problem starting out as the first thing I did was take the class but I’m taking a more advanced class next month and I’m going to be in the same boat. Gotta unlearn all my crappy habits.

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