- This topic has 23 replies, 12 voices, and was last updated 15 years, 6 months ago by bob250.
When will my “scare” happen? (long post)
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October 20, 2008 at 1:34 pm #2276PhilParticipant
Hello Everyone!
This post is quite long and probably painful to read since English is my second language…. Please feel free to flame me on my cockiness and choice of motorcycle (or anything else that you can think of) since I truly learn through criticism.I decided to get my motorcycle license about 2 months ago. I did the standard private lesson course with a motorcycle school. This course entailed 5 private, 2 instructors on 1 student, lessons and the road test deal (here in NY quite a pain in the a**).
The bike they used was an Eliminator (kawasaki?) I don’t remember which manufacturer but its basically a 125 cruiser. I think there is hardly a difference to the honda rebel.
I enjoyed the 2 on 1 training and their expertise. We did a lot of repititions and muscle memory building. By the 4th lesson I had the bike under control. With that i mean that I was able to do slow speed maneuvers perfectly. I was able to do circles and figure 8ts with a 6ft radius (which means that I basically had the steering bar at its maximum angle).
I always had good hand eye coordination and am a “biker” (bycicle) which probably helped me with balance etc …
I am used to driving stick shift in a car so getting used to manual transmission on a motorcycle basically meant switching controls (from right arm to foot for shifting …etc).
I feel that my little experience in car racing helps me with entry and exit of curves, I feel that my bycicling helped me with balance and control of the bike, and I feel that my stick shift experience allowed me to become proficient fast.(by now you probably think: what a conceded dude! read on ….)
So I mastered my road test (what a surprise … going around the block once is a joke compared to licensing exams back home in Germany).
Proudly licensed I started looking for a bike with which to commute to work. By this time I had done extensive research and reading on the internet about what bike to start on. I am fully aware of all arguments around starting on a 250 (or below 600 basically).Side story: I used to have a 330ci BMW as my main car. This is a fast very well handling car that I did some major suspension upgrades to (performance .. not looks). I am a young guy (25) and I drove that car to its limits. I could consistently double +10 the speed limits on curves. (onramp rated at 45 I could take at 90-100). Before you start flaming me please know that even though I drive fast I consider myself a safe driver, this means: no tailgating, always aware of my surroundings (extensive mirror use), no stunts (such as fast cornering) when there are any vehicles nearby or I did not know the area i was in.
Since the car had a performance suspension in it (upgrade) I would feel every rock that I drove over and pottholes would throw me around. Inevitably i started scanning the pavement in front of me to my driving routine.
When the time for a new car came around I knew I had to get something slower because I KNOW myself. I got an infiniti fx35 (the suv) This car still outhandles an audi, but since it is an SUV its accelleration and mass makes it a little plumb-er than the bmw.Knowing that I will ride my vehicle to its limits I knew I need a bike with low limits. I knew I need a cruiser because if I were to get a bike that would allow me to corner hard and accelerate fast then I would do so and probably add to the statistic of beginning motorcyclist getting killed.
For my commute to work I knew that I will be going 70-80mph with a need for quick acceleration to 95 if necessary (traffic).
I shopped around and found a beautiful 07 honda shadow spirit 750 with a sissibar and a windshield. It only had 1500 miles on it and the owner threw in his jacket, helmet and gloves. All of that I got for $4700. How could I say no?
I took the bike to a honda dealer after I bought it and did the full 1000mile service over and had one of the front strut seals replaced ($200). Even adding all of that in I still only spent $5100 for the bike + extras.Ok, now you know who I am and what I have … Here my dilema: I am afraid of overconfidence… Reading the forums I KNOW that something will happen eventually. I put on over 500 miles on my bike since I got it and so far did not even get one “scare”, nothing unexpected happened. The only time I locked up my rear wheel was because I wanted to feel and learn about it, and the only time I almost dropped my bike was when I reverse-pushed it out of my gravel driveway and kind of stumbled.
Please … someone bring me back down to reality … How can I be so comfortable already that I am taking my usual offramps at “footpeg touching the pavement” speeds? I feel like I really need an allmost-collision to activate the adrenalin that SHOULD be in my veines when I ride.October 20, 2008 at 3:05 pm #14040BuddParticipantWith 500 miles, If you haven’t had a scare yet A) you only drive in very very light traffic or you are not paying attention. You can be safe as you want all day long, but that doesn’t make anyone else safe. Having good awareness and a 6th sense helps you see these acts of retarded driving, but these acts still happen. Keep payine attention.
“I am the best there is at what I do, and what I do ain’t nice.”-Wolverine
October 20, 2008 at 3:17 pm #14044PhilParticipanthmmm …
Pay more attention ? Saying that I did not get freaked yet because I did not pay attention is a bit weird, I am not sure I udnerstand your case…. If I am not paying attention and a car pulls out in front of me I would freak the hell out! I think not paying attention being the reason for not having a scary moment does not work….
If I missunderstood, please clarify-Here to learn!
October 20, 2008 at 3:28 pm #14045CandiceParticipantYour “scare” will happen when you least expect it, so, try to always expect it. Then, it probably won’t be as scary since you were expecting it? Know what I mean?
October 20, 2008 at 3:46 pm #14049BuddParticipantWhat do you mean by scare? Do you mean someone doing something dumb and putting your life in danger or do you mean almost being in an accident? I was assuming the first. I think you may be referring to the latter. If you are paying attention then the latter should be a rare occurance. The prior is almost a daily occurance.
“I am the best there is at what I do, and what I do ain’t nice.”-Wolverine
October 20, 2008 at 3:51 pm #14050PhilParticipantI concider both of the above to be the same….
With “scare” I mean a situation that will force me to do some kind of emergency maneuverOctober 20, 2008 at 4:52 pm #14056ranetteParticipantAlthough my driving style, and probably riding style, is different than the OP’s I have the exact same feeling, and I truly don’t believe it is because I am not paying attention. At one point, maybe because of my inexperience, maybe because of an idiot I happen to be sharing the road with, I expect to have the crap scared out of me and I am not looking forward to it. All of the emergency braking and swerving practice will hopefully serve me well, but until you’re battle tested, until you have that first Holy @#$% moment, you’re going to wonder how you’ll react in a true emergency situation. I may know how to brake properly, but how quickly will I recognize true danger and apply what I have learned? It is certainly something I’m not looking forward to, but after it happens I think I’ll feel a little more confident in my ability to evade an incident(that is if I do evade it).
October 20, 2008 at 6:04 pm #14057BuddParticipantActually people doing dumb stuff rarely requires emergency action. It usually just involves slowing down. It really does become a 6th sense. It is almost funny how accurate it is. Just remember that all the cars, trucks, and SUVs are actively trying to take your life and you should be good.
“I am the best there is at what I do, and what I do ain’t nice.”-Wolverine
October 20, 2008 at 6:22 pm #14058briderdtParticipant…unflappable, Terminator-type driver/riders. Never know. I tend to not even feel “fear” or that crap-in-my-pants feeling at all, even in very tight situations. Doesn’t matter whether I’m in my cage, or on my bike (bicycle — don’t have a motor yet). But I get the shakes well afterwards (adrenaline reaction). IN the moment, I’m totally calm — just reacting. I’ve seen so many people (women usually) react by completely tensing up.
So hopefully that REALLY scary situation never happens.
October 20, 2008 at 6:44 pm #14061eonParticipantYou seem to be pretty self satisfied with your abilities as a driver and rider but is it justified? I don’t know, maybe it is, but there was nothing in your post to indicate you are a talented rider or driver. It is worrying that your lack of self control dictates what vehicle you buy. If you have such a need for speed then take it to a race track. You might find that your confidence and lack of fear lets you achieve great things. But keep pushing the limits on the public road and it is just a matter of time before something bad happens.
October 20, 2008 at 7:39 pm #14070PhilParticipantEon …. exactly !!
I am not trying to get people to say that I am awesome at riding, quite the opposite … I am looking for guidance.
I feel quite cocky with only 500 miles and its scary…
Oh and isnt knowign yourself the sole reason for buying a smaller bike? shouldnt you base your vehicle purchase on what you know you can and should be handling? If I did not excercise constraint I would be sitting on a R1200K.Elwood …. Thanks for the input
Please understand that I do push the limit on the bike but ONLY in very clear safe situations … like on-off ramp curves that are empty and that I literally drive every day and know etc…
Running into danger of repeating myself …
My problem is that I keep breaking rules that I learned in the course and on the forums one by one and notice they REALLY are not AS important as it is stated…. I feel that 70% of the riders course is for people that have never been on a bycicle or know how a manual transmission works.
Here are some examples:-stay in gear and accellerate out of the turn – In the beginning i stuck to that but then i noticed that it really does not matter that much if youre even in a gear. (of course as long as you dont pull a stunt such as rev up and drop the clutch …)
-dont break while cornering it will straighten the bike and I will end up going straight instead of continuing my path – ok I mean dont lock up your wheels while cornering … duhh but breaking has not yet caused any of the above.
-buy a bike smaller then 500cc – i got the shadow 750 and if it had any less power i would not feel safe on the highway (NY has short on ramp acceleration lines) weight wise I can handle it too. (example from above … almost dropped it when reverse walking out of gravel driveway)
If I had money left over after starting this great experience of riding I would do an advanced rider course or stunt course (I know I am probably missing the experience for a pre-requisite) just to learn the limits better and REALLY know how to control any situation.
I suppose I am being like this because for the last 3 months before I actually started riding i memorized all the rules and tips … and now I notice that they are more like guidelines. Its just that everyone talks about them as if you will die the instant you dont stick to them.
October 20, 2008 at 9:43 pm #14082RabParticipantI don’t really see the point of your post.
If, as you seem to think, you know better than the advice that is generally given out here, then good luck to you. Why are you still hanging around here unless it’s just to say that we’re full of it and you know better?
Different people have different abilities, strengths and weaknesses. A tall, skinny, seventeen year old newbie has a whole different set of issues to deal with than a short, overweight, fifty something returning rider. This being the case, we tend to err on the side of caution, and rightly so in my opinion. This is life and death.
I hope you go from strength to strength and in safety but I have my doubts given your pushing of the envelope and apparent disregard for riding advice given out by more experienced riders.
When will your scare happen? Who knows, but I’d been driving a car for 30 years then riding a 250 for a year followed by an 800 c.c. standard for a year when I had an unscheduled get-off (at around 18,000 motorcycle miles ridden).
In fact, statistically, the 2-3 year’s experience mark shows a peak in motorcycle accidents as riders by then think they know it all and drop their guard. Looks like you’re there already…
As you get older, you will learn not to tempt fate.
October 20, 2008 at 10:17 pm #14084BuddParticipantWhat is the point of taking a turn if you aren’t going to accelerate out of it. I would never be in neutral in a turn and I would always be geared so that my gas moves me when I need it to.
“I am the best there is at what I do, and what I do ain’t nice.”-Wolverine
October 20, 2008 at 10:52 pm #14087dcJohnParticipantOk, these statements shows that you you’re not really paying close enough attention to the bike’s dynamics:
“-stay in gear and accellerate out of the turn – In the beginning i stuck to that but then i noticed that it really does not matter that much if youre even in a gear. (of course as long as you dont pull a stunt such as rev up and drop the clutch …)
-dont break while cornering it will straighten the bike and I will end up going straight instead of continuing my path – ok I mean dont lock up your wheels while cornering … duhh but breaking has not yet caused any of the above.”Both of these behaviors radically change the bike’s suspension, and with that traction, in the midst of a turn. One reason you haven’t noticed the effect is that you’re riding well within your traction “budget” and there’s been room for rider error. That’s a good thing. But at some point you’re going to, intentionally or by accident, be riding closer to the edge of your bike’s traction. Doing either of these things–not accelerating through a turn (and being in neutral is even worse since there’s not even an option of doing the right thing) and breaking in a turn–will put you over the edge.
While it’s not getting you in trouble now, every time you take a turn and ignore these basic rules of traction you are training yourself to do the wrong thing.
By the way, since you’re driving nice cars, start practicing these same habits on four wheels. The same principles apply, and they were drilled over and over again in the autocross and track certification courses I took.
If you’d like an explanation of why these are important basic principles for riding (plus get lots of other good riding information), I’d suggest:
Parks’ _Total Control_
http://www.amazon.com/Total-Control-Performance-Street-Techniques/dp/0760314039/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1224542720&sr=8-2and Code’s _Twist of the Wrist 2_
http://www.amazon.com/Twist-Wrist-Basics-High-Performance-Motorcycle/dp/0965045021/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1224542804&sr=1-1October 20, 2008 at 11:20 pm #14088bob250ParticipantI think Phil went into riding with some notion that it is the most dangerous activity in the world. I don’t think he is over confident, he just made a mountain out of a mole hill and found out it’s not that bad. Your “scary” moment won’t be a result of your actions if you keep your wits about you. It will most likely come from some cager prick that probably shouldn’t be on the road in the first place. Just lessen your chances of becoming a statistic by riding safe because they are out to get you. Specifically you Phil. Be safe.
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