- This topic has 46 replies, 11 voices, and was last updated 14 years, 5 months ago by eternal05.
SV650SF/ABS
-
AuthorPosts
-
October 10, 2009 at 12:57 am #22773megaspazParticipant
No. the sf is more leaned over. not as aggressively leaned over as super sports, but more leaned over than your 250 and the naked sv and gladius.
October 10, 2009 at 1:05 am #22774SafetyFirstParticipantThat’s the thing about motorcycle braking I’ve found. Unless you’re on a clean track and have mad skill, there’s too many variables at work for using braking to the max w/o locking. There could be some loose lil pebbles you can’t see, a build up of antifreeze and grease, etc etc.
I hear what’s been said about braking in the rain. I skidded like a mofo in the rain wanting to turn onto a street that I’m familiar with one time, and as far as I could tell, I was doing everything right, but the street was mad slicker than I thought. Luckily I made the decision to just abort, keep going straight and try to keep it upright.
I know in the cage, ABS has saved my ass many a time, especially in the rain or on icy roads.
October 10, 2009 at 2:43 am #22775AParticipantI’m 5’10” about 150 lb. with full riding gear including helmet, full leather race suit, gloves and boots.
My track bike is a kick start-only +/-270 lb. Honda XR650R supermotard, with a single disc front brake.
Yes, ABS works better than regular brakes in rains, blah blah blah.. How often do you need maximum braking power while riding in the rain? how often have you used your ABS in the rain? more than likely, if you require maximum braking power in the rain, you would fare out of the situation poorly whether or not you have ABS. Have the common sense to avoiding or get yourself out of those situation is more effective than any ABS.
October 10, 2009 at 3:19 am #22776megaspazParticipantquote: more than likely, if you require maximum braking power in the rain, you would fare out of the situation poorly whether or not you have ABS.
More than likely, possible, but I think the odds of coming out unscathed with nothing but a shit streak in your underwear are going to be greater with ABS than without.
quote: Have the common sense to avoiding or get yourself out of those situation is more effective than any ABS.
1000000000% agreed.
October 10, 2009 at 9:57 am #22777eternal05ParticipantSo what’s the big reason that you’re average consumer doesn’t want ABS? The argument I’ve heard is “a skilled rider is unlikely to need it,” and that’s no argument against having it there, just in case.
October 10, 2009 at 10:36 am #22779SafetyFirstParticipantI think ABS is a good thing for those of us who aren’t at the level of riding around a track with or without stands full of fans just as much as those who are at that level when it comes to street riding. When there are vehicles around me on the road that can crunch me like a pop can, I’d want the best braking power I can get when trouble hits the fan.
I agree that ABS isn’t going to do miracles. The laws of physics still apply here. Defensive riding is still a must, swerving and making an “alternate route” around trouble when it happens is still the first and foremost. Braking distances are still going to be about the same.
There’s some SkyJet 125 bikes from Asia that are popular for learners in UK. They’re basically a Honda CBR125 rip-off with ABS. Are learners at a disadvantage from having ABS from the get-go? There’s a lot one learns about braking when there’s a cloud of smoke emerging from under the bike of a n00b getting too randy with the brakes during parking lot practice.
The lil’ squid devil on my shoulder is wondering if it’s possible to do stoppies with ABS. Honestly, it doesn’t matter to me one way or the other, by the way, I’m just curious.
October 10, 2009 at 11:46 am #22780eternal05ParticipantIdeally, when performing a stoppie, you do not want to lose traction. While racers occasionally get out of sorts before corners with their rear wheels in the air, they, for the most part, manage to brake VERY hard with both wheels on the ground. Hard braking is obviously a requirement for a stoppie, but it’s the moving your bodyweight way forward that really does it. You shouldn’t need to approach a front slide to pull it off, at least not with any bike I’d consider as “stoppie-capable” (aka NOT Elwood’s sporty). Conversely, I’ve locked the front on numerous occasions, but never have I sufferred an accidental stoppie. The two things (loss of traction and stoppies) aren’t directly related.
October 10, 2009 at 1:37 pm #22781MunchParticipantWell being that I am not an average consumer as I know what all is involved with ABS.
The first and fore most argument will be the price tag. I have no clue about sport bikes, not my thing, but for cruisers on average it adds anywhere between $2000 to $3000 on the price tag. Some will not see the justification for that add on price for the rarity that you need it. Another is, yes, a maintenance and repair standpoint.Y’all are correct in stating that you don’t lose your basic brakes if the ABS system shuts down, however you just added a $2000 paper weight to your bike when it does break. Repair wise they can be aggravating as all get out to repair, bleeding sequences, purging the system and heck the added electronic controls just throws that much more heart ache into the mix. Then throw in the fact that the average rider likes turning wrenches on their own ride. How many here know how to mess with an ABS system? How many know the process to purge the main body of air should you over heat the fluid and get the brake fade? Will the average person know how to diagnose whether its a valve in the main body or just an air bubble causing the malfunction.
So with all the above you sit down and think…..”Ok so ABS comes into play only in harder then normal braking, which I can 90% of the time avoid by remembering basic safety practices, increasing following distances, always staying keen on escape routes, oh yea not to mention …let’s just not ride in the snow to begin with”, now taking this into the thought pattern and you have just haggled the guy over price for the sake that is now ’09 and the bike is an ’08…….you can save an addition 2 to 3 grand by not getting the 5-10% used/useful ABS system…… where do you think thats going to lead. Most everyone will take the non ABS. I know some would try to point the next argument from a logic perspective. Hey lets be honest, we are not logical when it comes to riding and neither is general population. We ride on 2 wheels for the feeling of freedom and the excitement, when we can just as easily get from point A to B in a cage and in a safer manor.Me personally I have nothing against ABS systems at all. However the “safety” factors are HUGELY over inflated. For me it represents laziness. You take your time to be responsible on learning to ride and control your bike. Not getting lazy about sticking to a good safe habit on every ride and you now reduce that 5-10% usefulness to less then a 1% chance you’ll ever need em. That to me is not worth the 2 to 3 grand on the price tag.
Oh yea on the automotive side of things….. ABS systems are like air bags, in some cases they help, in others they do not. I have seen and repaired the vehicles from both sides of that coin.
October 10, 2009 at 1:55 pm #22782megaspazParticipantfor the sv, the price difference is $500.00. That’s in the U.S. though. I don’t know what the price difference is in other countries or if different manufacturers offer ABS standard in other countries.
Also, I think it safe to presume everyone here wears gear? Why go through the added expense of wearing gear? I mean, if you’re not lazy and take the time to control your bike, you’d never hit the ground right? So why add all the extra bulk and go through the cost of wearing gear that you’ll never use its functionality for?
October 10, 2009 at 2:02 pm #22783briderdtParticipantBeat me to the exact same response by 5 minutes…
October 10, 2009 at 2:05 pm #22784MunchParticipantLOL, good point… I would hope everyone on this site wears their gear. Realisiticly…….the entire population of riders do not and even some that do only ride in what is enforced by law.
October 10, 2009 at 4:45 pm #22785WeaponZeroParticipantOn my ’00 SVN, I’ve always gone straight to the nearest gas station once the low fuel warning light came on. No idea how much longer it can go but I’ve never given it more than, say, 5 miles.
October 10, 2009 at 6:52 pm #22786owlieParticipant“For me it represents laziness. You take your time to be responsible on
learning to ride and control your bike. Not getting lazy about sticking
to a good safe habit on every ride and you now reduce that 5-10%
usefulness to less then a 1% chance you’ll ever need em.”Thank you for finally stating the most important point in all of this. Having ABS on your ride does not absolve you from your responsibility to know how to effectively brake your bike without locking up the wheels.
All the other arguments and complaints are pretty much a matter of personal opinion regarding a optional feature.
October 12, 2009 at 6:43 pm #22810Bob HarleyParticipantToday, many cars come with ABS standard. Be thankful, those cages might not slide into you while your are stopped helplessly watching them come at you in your review mirror! Motorcycles tend to be more minimalist in nature and ABS is still a decade away from becoming standardized. This thread has looked at many reasons for and against them. Many of the issues, like weight and maintenence, are simply nonfactors in my opinion. Racers might be concerned with these issues, as well as the “skill” of braking, but I think for the typical rider ABS is blessing. The primary reason for ABS not be widely available is cost and marketing. The manufactures have made this decision for us. If someone could find the sales figures for SV650’s sold between 07 to 09, you would likely see the overwhelming majority sold were the non-abs models, even though ABS models were available for just $500 more. The release of the Gladius without ABS, and Kawasaki’s decision to have ABS brakes for their international Er-n6, but not on the USA model, reflects that not enough American buyers purchase ABS bikes to make them worth distribution.
It comes to $$$. Most riders have a motorcycle as a toy. I need a car. I want a bike. I sank most of my money into my car. The extra $500 to $2000 for ABS discourages many buyers. I mean think about it. How many riders do you see of skimp on their riding gear? A good set of gear (helmet, jacket, pants, gloves and boots) will cost $500 to $2000. I spent $1K. Next time you ride estimate what each rider you see spent on the gear they are riding. Helmet, $125. Nothing else of safety value. So there it is, if ABS only added $100 or $200 onto the price we would all have ABS standard, and racers would custom order their bikes with an ABS delete option (which would be really nice solution for those who really believe in non-ABS).
Everything I have read (I read a great article by an instructor for the California Highway Patrol???), as well as automobile experience tells me that a good ABS system is a lifesaver. I am planning on buying a Gladius as my next bike, but for me if they offered ABS I’d drop the extra money in heartbeat. It’s a no brainer.
Intrusiveness is always a concern. The ABS system should not kick in until the bike is nearing the envelope of it’s break performance, near lock up. I have driven cars that activate too early. I have driven cars where the ABS was a beautiful thing that shows up only when I rarely over estimated my stopping power. Manufacturer and model can make a difference in (my and) your experience. Because so few motorcycles have ABS currently or people had bad experiences with early ABS units in the late 80’s and the 90’s it is hard to find an exerienced opinion even with a model as numerous and popular as the SV650. When I was first looking into buying a SV650N I wanted to know about the ABS system on it. After much searching, which I can no longer find, I found an austrailian website that mentioned they thought it was ok on the front brake and a bit touchy on the rear brake. The explanation was not elaborate or detailed (In fact it may have been a forum, so I am reluctant to state this as factual???) and I have NEVER ridden an SV650 or a bike with ABS. I have had no success in confirming this, but did once see a craiglist add for a SV650S where the seller said he really liked the safety of the ABS and used it as a strong selling point. I found that getting a concrete opinion was like researching urban mythes, “Does ABS on bikes really exist or are they a scary fable told to children and squids?” BMW bikers have had ABS for years and some models apparently have an ON/OFF switch, which I think is very cool. They acknowledge the early models in the 80’s were not perfect, but most of the bikes made today are well regarded and may be your best source for ABS information if you want to pursue this. I can’t afford a BMW and unless Suzuki offers ABS for the 2010 Gladius I am going to live without it. I decided that ABS would be nice, but not deal breaker.
I think ABS is a good thing, but like cars of today, it will take time before there are enough bikes out there for people to see the benefits and become comfortable with them as an everyday commuter feature. Biking in many ways is a rebellion from saftey of the cage, and it seems that includes brakes too. The most frustrating thing about bikes I believe is that most dealers don’t allow test rides where you can experience how the bike feels on the road. Imagine if we bought cars that way?
The irony of this is, most people who will read this post will either be new and trying to form an opinion without experience (Actually I have no bike ABS experience to be honest) or by very capable riders who might feel that they don’t need ABS. But in anycase I wanted to share too.
October 12, 2009 at 7:12 pm #22811Bob HarleyParticipantI this is the only article i could find about the ABS brakes. It was not a forum as I thought, it was an online mag. review. My mistake! In the middle of the article there is two sentences describing the brakes. Enjoy.
http://www.carsguide.com.au/site/news-and-reviews/car-reviews-road-tests/test_drive_suzuki_sv650
“Twin 290mm floating-disc front brakes and a 220mm rear disc are quite adequate. The ABS is subtle and only the rear can be activated easily.”
-
AuthorPosts
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.