PC or not PC, that is the question
October 3, 2008 at 2:45 am #13198smokeizfireParticipant
Words are used in terms that don’t always apply to their dictionary definition. When I use the term “politically correct”, I use it to site an individual(s) who would correct someone on a point that may have been taken out of context…like the “John McCain…flip flop..” post. Although, I was joking about a politician, it seem you thought I was injecting politics into the discussion(there’s a difference). Your “political correctness” wasn’t initiated in my opinion until you tried to “advise” me to leave politics on the “off topic” forum. I think most people may have taken it as a joke and not me trying to steer away from the “topic.”
I felt like you just didn’t get it (not the joke, but that it was in fact just a joke); like the slogan from the T-shirt. You started an entire thread about the implications of a T-shirt. “HE WHO DIES WITH THE MOST TOYS WINS.” This doesn’t make you politically correct in my opinion, but with those 2 instances, it seems you take things very seriously. That’s a good thing….if it’s working for you.
In politics, you always have to watch what you say for fear of someone taking what you say out of context, then using it against you. Thus, I think that’s where the term “politically correct” stems from. Long story short, when someone…excuse me…when I refer to someone as “politically correct”, I might just mean that you are watching my words a little too closely. = ^ D
HE WHO DIES WITH THE MOST TOYS WINSOctober 3, 2008 at 4:02 pm #13248
Ok, if you really want to redefine the term “politically correct” as watching words too closely, we can have a different discussion, or better yet, pass.
To me, it means parroting an accepted but unsupported notion, because to do otherwise might prove offensive. I would hardly consider myself politically correct. I do, however, watch some words closely because they can be revealing.
As to the McCain reference, I don’t think PC came into play. I’ll happily participate in a political discussion, or not. But I didn’t want to see any more unnecessary heat on the Bike Forum. If there is going to be heat, let’s save it for bike opinions. Why go looking for trouble.
I’ll be frank. you seem to use capital letters, a lot. You seem to get into a lot of “he said, I said” posts. I think your signature line is pretty silly, if you mean it. Signatures are intended to reflect, in some way, the personality or beliefs of the poster. I could go on with the analysis of your posts, but you think I already watch words too closely.
I suspect that the economic gyrations of the last few months, and the current crisis, have magnified my desire to vent. Otherwise, why am i starting off topic threads? So, feel free to take everything I say with a grain of salt. But, there is no reason to look for smoke, or even an ember, just to fan it into flames. You seem to do this. I was hoping to keep things more civil on the motorcycle threads. I hope that this post, in the OT threads, was frank enough for you.October 5, 2008 at 6:02 pm #13333smokeizfireParticipant
Perception varies for different individuals my friend. You have to be the most “POLITICALLY CORRECT” individual in this entire forum. I agree that words can be very revealing; also judgmental, misleading, and down right offensive. I’m glad that my posts interest you so. You’ve been using your microscope really well, I see.
Sorry that this “unsupported notion” offends you so much, that you have to post it as a forum topic. Whereas, it seems most who may have viewed this “unsupported notion” as just rhetoric. You however, being the overly critical individual you are, seem to take it as a viewpoint of my own. Well, I guess the guy who chose to use a quote from a X-man “…I’m the best at what I do, and what I do ain’t nice..” really reflects their viewpoint. Give me a break!
And back to the “John McCain” reference, the only “heat” concerning it is coming from your direction. So don’t try to come off as some sort of mediator; as if you are trying to prevent a disagreement before it happens. What you are doing is the exact opposite. You are the proverbial fanner of “embers” into “flames”.
Your criticism, and endless ranting is as silly as this “unsupported notion” that you are attacking. If you think you can figure an individual out by a few posts, then I beg to differ. And, I have no choice but to capitalize and get into, “he said, I said” posts, because of people like you, who misconstrue the overall point I am trying to get across. People like you who get so lost in the details that they miss the point entirely.
I think you started 2 threads on the “OT Forum”, all pertaining to previous posts of mine (I’m flattered) looking for an uproar; in a lame attempt to exaggerate the context in which the statements were made; to portray this “unsupported notion” as the posters personal point of view (guess the “statement” isn’t so “silly” since I’ve made it clear that this is NOT a personal point of view.) So keep posting! Continue your “unsupported” rants, and totally irrelevant opinion in your analysis of what I have already, and will post. You just prove my point further about you, and your sharp criticism.
You said, “So, feel free to take everything I say with a grain of salt.” Finally, we agree on something! =* ]D
HE WHO DIES WITH THE MOST TOYS WINSOctober 5, 2008 at 7:02 pm #13341
Hmm really would hate to see the edit history on this post. I think this has got to be your best spelled and possibly even a tad more into the realm of thought out and “speech like” that I have seen from ya yet!. Sure you didn’t go to the local political office and borrow the speech writer? … all in gest.. .have to pick on ya …well didn’t HAVE to …. just felt an urge to …..lol.
Yesterday is a memory, tomorrow is a prediction, but today…… is a Bi**hOctober 7, 2008 at 12:14 am #13427
This thread was a response to a post by “jayman2078”, not one by you. Just thought you should know. It’s not about you.
For all your flaws, I haven’t seen you apply stereotypes based on genetic groups to individuals. Nor have I seen you offend anyone in that way.
Other ways, sure, but you don’t seem to be a bigot.October 9, 2008 at 5:50 pm #13616
It is misleading and frankly wrong to say PC was coined under Stalin. When used in communist states its meaning is taken more literally. i.e. the party line is the politically correct line. The more usual interpretation of minimizing offense to minorities by limiting free speech was invented right here in the good ole USofA (mainly by a certain grand old party). Can’t say Stalin was particularly noted for concern for the feelings of minorities.October 9, 2008 at 8:25 pm #13628
The US Supreme Court used the term “not politically correct” in 1793.
It seems you are linking political correctness to Stalin in an attempt to discredit it. Obviously, anything associated with the biggest mass murderer in human history is not going to look good. Making false claims does not win debates
Both sides of this argument can be taken too far. Personally, I make a distinction between someone having a point of view I find offensive and someone deliberately trying to offend . The first I will ignore, the second I will punch in the throat
October 10, 2008 at 1:22 am #13647
Maybe I should ask if it is OK to dump on someone’s ass who makes a racist or other stupid prejudiced comment. The person can say what they want, but do we have to put up with it, or can we call them on it. At what point can we withdraw our company (assuming we wanted to)?
Going back to my original question, would it be better to have said,”sorry you ran into an oblivious driver using a cell phone, but making a point of explaining that it was a black woman was irrelevant, and may indicate a flaw in your thinking”? Does that make me PC, or just exercising my right to tell someone that they are offensive? The question has come up before. I agree with another poster who pointed out that the word “Jap” might be offensive. Is that PC, or just courtesy?
I really get pissed when people generalize about groups. It seems, sometimes, that it is considered bad manners on these forums to call someone on an obnoxious comment (and yes, I mean obnoxious in the eye the reader-me or another). So that is the question, is it acceptable on these forums to call someone if they make an offensive comment, and then discuss whether it was in fact obnoxious rather than fall back free speech as a justification. Elwood, except for the Stalin thing, I tend to agree with you-but free speech includes taking responsibility for what is said. Criticizing someone for saying something does not violate their free speech rights. Stopping them ahead of time would do that.October 10, 2008 at 2:38 am #13653
Again I lean back on the judgement thing. Offensive to you, you have stated as much, beyond your own feelings towards it, would you maybe relax to the idea that you are reading further into something that is not really there? Me personally…someone pisses me off ….I let them know…. Do I do it on the fly… lol…not ALL the time :^) . Honestly I do try to look at things in different situations and see if I am just jumpy because of my predisposition or is it just something that even though its offensive in your region may be perfectly acceptable in someone elses. Another debate about the particular subject above… you cannot see who made the comment. Sarcasm, generalization, humor and general emotion is very very hard to relate in text. Ofcourse smilies help. Along with the occasional “lol”.
Maybe even , thanks to Ben, we now have an inbox taking the subject matter “P2P” , or as best you can . I will bet that matters are more easily resolved on a more private level then getting the public involved. Egos are more easily set aside or even less likely to be triggered. Heck maybe even the offending person would see your PoV and edit the offense out of mere decency.
You have as much right to speak your mind and PoV as the person who is offending you, are you prepared to be the one to agree to disagree? Are you comfortable with an “eye for an eye” attitude and feeling justified by giving the offender as much attitude and flack as you thought you indirectly received?
The ONLY true Censors are our own person and character. What you think about you. Others (IMO) should not matter. You can escape them, ignore them, remove yourself from the situation.
But… ” no matter where you go there you are”. You cannot escape yourself.
Yesterday is a memory, tomorrow is a prediction, but today…… is a Bi**hOctober 10, 2008 at 5:37 pm #13689
+1 on the judgement thing.
I think it would be fine to point out you found out the wording offensive but not cool to dump on the guy. You need to consider that you found offense where none was intended. It appears everyone else took his words to be simply descriptive so maybe we are all white men who do not own Mercedes or SUVs, or maybe you are reading too much into this?October 10, 2008 at 11:14 pm #13707AnonymousGuestOctober 19, 2008 at 7:37 pm #14001RabParticipant
I came across this and thought it pretty well described the absurd nature of political correctness.
Political Correctness – The authoritarian, racist, and discriminatory ideology that supposedly opposes authoritarianism, racism, and discrimination.
The Emperor, indeed, has no clothes on.October 22, 2008 at 12:34 am #14162
Yesterday is a memory, tomorrow is a prediction, but today…… is a Bi**hOctober 24, 2008 at 9:50 pm #14265AnonymousGuest
A few years ago, I suggested to management that their policy of promoting a black leadership award was divisive and racist. Where’s the White Anglo Saxon Protestant leadership award or the Jewish leadership award or the one-legged deaf people leadership award I asked.
They fired me on the spot and escorted me off the premises.
In Europe they’re *jailing* Christians who, in accordance with their faith, speak out against homosexuality. They’re *jailing* people who deny that the “Holocaust” happened. They’re *jailing* people who speak out against their countries being over-run by violent, welfare-dependent, third-world losers.
These so called tolerant individuals can be extremely intolerant to anyone who dares to disagree with them and their new religion of Political Correctness.
Remember when Political Correctness first came out? We all laughed at the ridiculous re-naming of things (e.g. “chair” instead of “chairman”, “vertically challenged” instead of “short”, etc.). It’s not funny any more…
Things are getting very scary out there and coming to a town near you…October 25, 2008 at 12:22 am #14281BoOZe P-ti MotardParticipant
wot pc not pc mac?i use laptop..gahaha.. well that’s called equal opportunities.. coz we tend to think blacks are rather poor to modest and whites are posh..so black driving mercedes and so continues the story…but well one of the countries you must go visit and perhaps stay for a long time is mine, mauritius..all will come clear..
dang we were good talkin about bikes and bikes and then all the bikers were heading politics and racism…one which raises a topic which is as the above might be a racist..if ye cant stand dat,jog on..dang..i just hate when those topics are raised..we r in bbm and talking politics or wotsover..?! going to the pub and drinking chinese tea?m targeting the source,the rest which followed does not matter…
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