Remember when you were first learning to drive a car? You fumbled with the clutch, you killed it multiple times, lots of starts and stops. In my family when we were taught how to drive we used one of the older cars in our garage, that way if something happened the good cars wouldn't be damaged. Learning to drive was very frustrating to me at first, I couldn't figure out how to operate the clutch and smoothly shift gears in a way that didn't jerk everyone around. I was very happy to learn in that 10 year old car, it made things much easier for me. The first time I drove my moms brand new Subaru WRX I nearly steered into the fence because I wasn't used to a car with such a sensitive gas pedal.
Lamborghini
Imagine first learning to drive not in an old beater car, but a brand new Lamborghini! The idea of that might sound pretty cool, but for anyone that has driven a high performance car you know that everything about it means business. It accelerates blisteringly fast, it brakes are so powerful they can lock up even WITH anti-lock brakes. Definitely not a forgiving first car. To top that off you have to be extra careful so you don't scratch that crisp yellow paint job or bang your chromed dual exhaust on a speed bump.
Upping the Difficulty
Now take that example and add 2 things: Keeping 300+ pounds balanced on 2 wheels, and keeping the front end down. With a car you don't have to worry about balance at all, 4 wheels really helps with that, but with a motorcycle if you're going less than 5 mph you really need to watch your balance. Turning the motorcycle at all also requires balance, too much lean one way or another and you either end up on the pavement or wrapped around a telephone pole.
Motorcycles have incredible acceleration and they require a lot of throttle control to operate properly. If you give a fast car too much gas all you are going to do is peel out, if you do that same thing on a motorcycle you could easily pull a wheelie and flip the bike. Most modern 600cc motorcycle are built for the race track, the only thing that makes them street legal is adding blinkers, headlights and a license plate. Even 500cc motorcycle will out accelerate all but the fastest cars in a quarter mile race, imagine what a 600cc, or a 1000cc motorcycle can do!
Start Small
Do yourself a favor and when you get your first motorcycle buy something that is smaller than 600ccs, and preferable naked so you don't have to worry about scratching the fairings if you drop it in a parking lot. I was extremely careful and even I dropped my first motorcycle 2 times in the parking lot, and once at a stoplight (tuck in those laces while you ride or they will catch on your pegs!). It's definitely not an uncommon to hear of someone wrecking their brand new motorcycle less than a week after they leave the dealership. Not only will that hurt your pride, but it will also hurt your wallet and your body!
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Feedback
I cant remember if I posted this somewhere else here already or not, but I cant find my original post(if I did), so I thought I would post it again. I've been really enjoying your webpage, and a lot of your articles seem right on the money to me. I'm just beginning life as a motorcycle rider, (about to take the safety course, then buy my first bike). I would really like to see a place where I could post general comments about your page, maybe suggestions of motorcycles to review, ideas for articles, etc. For example, why arent there any reviews of dual sports? I would think that they would be high on the list of suggested beginner bikes (light, small farings, intuitive ergonomics, plus the versatility!) What about scooters as beginner bikes? I know why I wouldn't choose one, but I know a lot of people who are into the hipster/vespa image (especially chicks!). Also, could you tell us a bit about yourselves? Whats your background? Who are you? Why should we trust your opinion over our buddies who swear that everyone's first street bike should be at least 600ccs, to 'teach you some respect'?
Thank you for your great page, I can tell you like what you are doing, and I greatly appreciate it!
Sam
Hey Sam
Thanks very much! You read my mind, I'm actually working on a forum for this site as we speak, so look for a forum button on the navigation soon. I will also be adding some user accounts and stuff too so different people will be able to e-mail each other and stuff.
When it comes to dual sports, the main reason I haven't reviewed any is I don't know that much about them! I've been warming up to them more and more, and if you have any suggestions of a particular one you would like reviewed feel free to reply to this post with a list :)
Here is a link to that article I wrote!
http://www.bestbeginnermotorcycles.com/best-beginner-motorcycle-who-am-i
wow, this was actually very
wow, this was actually very informative. I have a couple years before I can legally operate a motorcycle but I would have never thought to start small, all that was going through my head was speed and more speed. Not a bright way to look at things but I'm glad I found this.
Beginner bike
i dont think some much that a 600cc bike can be compared to a extreme sports car. My first bike was a Suzuki SV650s which is a pretty torque oriented bike so it is fast. But i say its not so much the bike its the person on a bike because even a 450 can go fast you just have to know your limits and not do more then your able to.
Honda Shadow VLX
I was curious why you haven't mentioned the Honda Shadow VLX as a good first bike. I will be taking the MSF beginners riding course in 2 weeks adn am trying to decide what bike to buy. After reading all of your posts, I've decided that perhaps the Sportster 883 is too much bike for a beginner. SInce the VLX is about 500cc, I was surprised that you don't recommend it for beginners. Is there something I should know that makes it unsuitable for beginner riders?
Thanks for the post about
Thanks for the post about yourself! I dont live in the bay area, but if I'm ever down there, I'll be sure to wave.
The motorcycle that I've been considering lately (I've been changing my mind a lot, since it doesnt cost me anything) is the Suzuki DRZ400E or its sibling the Suzuki DRZ400SM. My boss keeps touting KTMs as the best bikes around, but I dont know that much about the specific models. Both Kawasaki and Yamaha make dual sports in the 125-225cc range, but they felt really really light to me when I went and sat on them, so I havent looked into them very much. My understanding is that you can get dual sport conversion kits for most dirt bikes, which really opens up whats available.
Thanks for the response to my post, its nice to know that there is a real person on the other end! Keep up the awesome work!
KTM
I've heard some pretty good things about KTM, and I really like the look of their Super Duke street bike! haha, I'll have to research the DRZ400 as well as a few other dual sports soon. Oh yeah, if you are viewing this in Internet explorer i'm sorry, the site looks like crap. I just found out yesterday how bad it looks in IE, I always use firefox so I could never tell. Regardless, expect some updates to the look of the site soon!
It's very easy to say that
It's very easy to say that only 250cc and 500cc are beginner bikes. But the fact of the matter is, a 500cc bike today is far more powerful than a 600cc of 20 years ago. And every bike can be dangerous. They can all go fast enough to cause a fatal crash and they all have ample acceleration to be unforgiving. A lot of the clutch work mentioned can be scary unless you've driven a standard car before. I started riding on a 97 YZF 600R. I had dropped it @ 65mph+. I would have done the same with a 250 cc bike. The road condition doomed me, not the CC rating. Currently I ride an 02 Busa. And it's probably EASIER to ride than the YZF. It's stable and the torque gives very nice low end acceleration. And while it could be very easy, controling a powerful bike is merely being smart enough to know your limits, and control your throttle hand.
Well I have to admit I went
Well I have to admit I went from 125cc all the way to a Suzuki SV650 and I will be honest it was a wierd Change but its all about being careful and respecting the machine your on. Im still on my SV650 but now thinking about changing to a Yamaha R6
Starting out 600
I have been running it over and over in my head. Do I want to start out on 500 and upgrade later or start out on a 600 and be with it for the next years.
Things stand out in my head, pros, cons, advantages, risks, warrants and disadvantages. I have something that a lot of people don't. Time. A lot of it. Before I go into that I want to rant about the area and the advantage I have.
I live in Fort Worth, Texas. I also happen to live in a area where in one direction you have country roads, another you have main roads and another highway, highway access roads and suburb streets. Each has its own traffic, speed and level of difficulty.
This is where I have my advantage and time comes into play. Being in a area like this makes for good learning in each "tier" of speed. Suburb streets offer for good learn at your pace streets without much traffic, fairly well kept roads and the feeling that when your ready to step it up your not far from another "tier". This is where I will most likely start my venture into biking before hitting the highway for a morning commute to work.
Country roads around here are not the most curvy but they do have their advantage and here is where risk comes into play. Country roads are not always the best kept roads and here is where you find of parallel cracks and sand. This makes for the "caution of riding" learning...
I would agree that most people shouldn't start out on a 600CC bike. But when you have the resources (MSF, different types of roads, ect ect) and most important research what is really stopping you? I can understand saying no to someone who is ready to roll off the dealership and hit the highway, but when you're ready to put the time and effort into learning before doing and learning while doing... wouldn't that put you at a advantage over starting on a 600 rather then not?
What i'm trying to say is, if you are fully committed to learning before doing and taking your time, shouldn't that be enough to justify going 600 over 250/500?
You also have to realize that on a budget buying two new bikes in one year can happen but would be very difficult. Even two in two years is easier said then done.
Although I have not done all my research I must say that when combined with information from the MSF website, guide sites like this and forums, should that not be enough to start slow on the 600?
Hmmm...
It is definitely possible to learn on a 600cc machine, but I feel that most people jump to a 600cc just because it looks cool. And I think if you have that attitude, than you most likely won't have the self control needed to keep yourself from binning the motorcycle in the first year. Hell, there is nothing wrong with wanting to look cool, that was probably a good 50% of the reason why I started riding! It's just badass! But it is way too easy to get over your head on a 600cc motorcycle in my opinion, and way too easy to get overconfident.
It is definitely possible to learn on a 600cc, there are lots of people that have done it. From my own experience I learned on a 500cc, and I found that to be MORE than enough of a challenge! Just a slight twist on the throttle would have you hitting 60mph in seconds. 500cc bikes are also lighter and easier to control while going at slow speeds, even with that being the case I must have dropped my first bike 3-5 times at low speeds. Thankfully it was a naked bike so I didn't have to worry about cracked fairings or anything like that.
When it comes to cost, you can pick up a ninja 500 one year, and sell it for maybe a few hundred less the next year, frankly they have excellent resale value. Hell with my first bike, a suzuki GS500, I bought it for $1700 and sold it less than a year later for $2500!!!! Thats a profit of 800 dollars, which more than paid for all the gear I bought for the bike. The key is finding deals and being patient.
I mean I guess you can do whatever you feel comfortable doing, but I know you will be more than satisfied with a 500cc bike, and it will provide tons of challenges for you. If you are dead set on getting something bigger than at least steer your thinking towards an SV650, the Vtwin engine it has makes it relatively newbie friendly. Keep in mind a 650cc vtwin is still going to have gobs more power than a 500cc ninja, so even though I do recommend it on this site, I really only try and steer people towards it if they definitely won't get something less than 600cc's.
One more quick thing. Most riders that I have seen that start on a smaller motorcycle are BETTER, and FASTER in the twisties than riders that start on 600cc plus motorcycles. This is because they can actually concentrate on proper riding technique instead of focusing so much on controlling a bike that is above their skill level.
600CC
I'm not deadset on any bike really. I have considered a ex500 more then any other bike. I like the look, the ride-ability and the option to do twisties is just another plus. After all this bike is to get me from point a to b, something to do on the weekends and to explore. I like the idea of joining a club, meet new people, learn more about bikes. This is quickly becoming a daily hobby and I like it!
This post was meant for one thing. To clearify to me any doubts that I had and that is it. I'm not about to run out and buy a bike. I still have a list of things todo before I even decide to buy a bike (That is a bit of lie, i will be getting one..)
I'm not looking at the bike thinking, I can go faster. I view it as, will this fit me better. I am a bit heavy set coming in at 230 fully clothed so these are the things I have to consider.
I love the idea that starting small is bigger in the future. That's great and that has been my thinking ever since I started the idea about getting a bike.
I have heard alot of the things you are saying about resale. I like the idea consider my yearly income vs the cost of the bike. Which fairs pretty well if I might add. I would much rather sell it to someone on the street then a dealer. You get to make new friends and maybe help someone a "tier" below me.
Anyways before I rant all night. The bottom line is, i am exploring my options. If I am deadset on anything it would be the kawasaki ninja 500 over any bike at this point. I do like the void that you can fill with custom parts.
Thank you shaykai.
Kickprivate
PS. Check your email :D
Alot fo thinking and tinkering
I have done alot of thinking. ALOT!
I have said, well it might be okay to start on 600CC bike if I do this and do that. I have also said that I am not going to be like the other joe's out there and take my time and not do this and not do that. But the truth is. You do not gain skill by reading a book, forum post or guide. You gain experience by doing and that is the only way. I am not saying that reading guides and forums is a bad thing, its great and one of the best things when used in conjunction with the MSF course. I will talk about that later.
Going out and buying a new 600CC bike would be the biggest mistake and I will tell you why. Many people fear the bike, that is the first mistake. It is the road and the people on it that you should fear. You should have respect for the bike but to a point, not fear. When you have fear, your rate of processing and leveling of thinking goes down. If you trust and respect you bike, you put your focus on the road and that is where it should be.
Many riders think about this when they buy their first bike. More power = acceleration.. but more power also = a lot more skill needed. Take a sharp corner on a 500CC bike, make a mistake on a turn and you should be able to push through it. Take a sharp corner on a 600CC bike, you "could" make the mistake of ending up on the other side of that reflective yellow line.
A lot of people, including myself, say "I'm going to get a 600CC bike. I'm going to be very mature, take it slow and learn my bike." But what we newbies ofter forget is that maturity doesn't start when you put a leg over on your bike, it starts before you buy it.
I think that a lot of newbies think that older riders are trying to put them down. They don't give them the answers they want so they just don't listen. There is a reason experienced riders say "It's not the best idea to start out on a 600CC bike". Listen to them is the only thing I will say. The people that do tell you to start on a 600CC are probably new riders themselves.
You will lay down your bike and whether you are going 20 or 60 you need to be prepared. But with a little skill you have a better chance of coming out of it.
About reading guides, forums, books and taking the MSF.
The best thing and most mentioned thing I have seen is "read as much as you can, then take the MSF course, you will soak up a lot more information and have a clear head. You are also more likely to ask questions when you have them. There are a lot of things to ask, and reading will put those in your head."
I read a guide the other night and it hit so close to home. Read it again and again. It was a great guide and at the end he mentioned a book called, The Complete Idiots Guide to Motorcycles, 3rd edition. I ran out and bought it right away. Well I ordered it online so its not really running as I was sitting at my computer already!
Don't be that squid in the newspaper. Be prepared for the worse and expect the unexpected.
Kickprivate
("Squid": The person you see riding in a wife beater, shorts and flip flops. A person who rides for looks. This said person is often times not experienced and doesn't feel like learning will benefit him or her in anyway)
Random Thoughts
I'm really glad you are thinking a lot about this! I think one of the main problems with the world today (not just the world of motorcycles) is that people don't think things through enough, or they think a little, and then they stop thinking. I can tell you have really thought about this though :)
This is a little off topic, but even though I do have a 600cc bike, probably sometime in the next year or so I plan on buying a 250cc bike! Kind of backwards huh? I mean I started on a 500cc and then moved up to a 600, so why go to the 250?
Because they are a blast to ride!
I actually plan on buying a 250cc bike and having it be a track bike, not only will the parts be cheaper to fix, but that way I can really take the bike to the limits.
________________________
Quick sideramp:
It's funny that you mention squids in the wifebeaters, shorts, flip flops etc... It seems like tons of people don't wear gear and only ride moto's for looks. When I see someone dressed out in full leathers I think, "Man, that guys a pro" or at the very least "Man, that guy is serious about riding".
On the other hand when I see some squid in shorts and flip flops I just cringe and hope they don't go down. Also in my opinion the people that ride like that are doing it 100% for image, and not for the actual joy of riding. Sure image is cool, but with full gear you LOOK like more of a badass professional than a guy not wearing any gear.
There is this guy I know that rides an r1, I believe he started on an r1 too actually. The funny thing is I was talking to him about riding and asked if he wanted to ride in the hills some weekend and he was like, "Nah, I don't like turning, I prefer cruising in a straight line."
I was freaking FLOORED! Leaning into a turn is the best part about riding a motorcycle! Because he started on a bike way too powerful, even though he has been riding for a few years, I bet a 250cc rider that has been riding for 6 months could beat him in the twisties.
Twisties
I can't agree more. I dream and dream about doing twisties. That is another reason on my list of pros and cons. The only bad thing is i'm sure they are not many here in Texas considering it's mostly flat! But I don't know the area yet.
I also agree that gear is way more pro over squid wear. I would much rather spend a grand on gear then 10 grand on medical bills.
Btw shaykai, hows the new place?
Grin
The 10 grand on medical bills doesn't bother me nearly as much as the pain that I would suffer from road rash. Hell I hate it when I get a bad sunburn, I bet road rash feels a billion times worse for weeks longer!
The new place is great actually :) I just strapped my garage door opener to my motorcycle with some zipties the other day. Hehe, I get the garage and my girlfriend and our roommate have to find parking elsewhere in the complex *GRIN* :)
Ben
I want to joyride and cruise not be a human missile
I've been hit 3 times by cars on my bicycle, I know that no matter how confident I am in my skills or ability, the other idiots on the road are unpredictable. Especially since one of those people looked me right in the eye before hitting me.
I want to be able to look to the right and left and see nothing but the road and scenery unobstructed. I can't say there won't be a day that I find a road I'm comfortable with and very briefly see how fast my bike can go.. I can pretty much promise that will happen..
I know what it's like to crash in a car, on a bike and I know that you multiply those by a hundred to equal a motorcycle crash. I have no problem with baby steps.
I plan on taking a class rather than learning on my own. I'd rather learn the right way and have a better experience in the long run.
Plus part of the goal is to save money on gas.. it's over 4$ here in michigan now, buying / trading in for a second bike isn't conducive of saving.
Just my take. A sports bike isn't my style. I plan on wearing full body protection. And no one else will ride with me without it as well.
What about 400cc
What do you think about starting on a 400-450 cc bike? I'm guessing that it is not as powerful and dangerous as a 600 but good enough for someone who wants to have that extra speed option incase they want to go a little faster. That's my reasoning but I could be wrong.
i say fuck anything less
i say fuck anything less than a 600 i started on a 03 r6 and loved it! wouldn't of started with a smaller bike! A 600cc is the perfect beginner bike as long as you have rode a dirt bike or some other bike before in your life as long as you take it easy for the first month your good!! Recommend a 600cc for anyone starting on a sport bike that has some back ground on a bike!!
idiot
The only thing an r6 is going to do for a beginner is get them into trouble, 90% of the people out there can't even ride a 600cc sport bike to its limit. The only reason to get a bigger bike is if you've ridden it as hard as it can go, and you're looking for more. For you straight line guys, go build yourself a drag bike, don't be a poser on an r1 talking about how fast you went when a pro on a 250 could smoke you on a course.
agreed!
I agree with you 100%!
Ben
~Best Beginner Motorcycles Admin
This is the most idiotic
This is the most idiotic comment I've ever read (not really, but close).
Sounds like another poser who doesn't want newbies on the same bike he rides.
ANYONE can start on a 600. If you can't, you shouldn't even be riding a motorcycle.
Load the bike on a truck and go out to an empty parking lot and LEARN TO RIDE the damn thing first before you hit the public streets. Christ, it's not that hard. Simulate traffic conditions, hard stopping, turning, etc... Spend however much time (days, weeks, etc..) you need doing thing before you go out into traffic.
Guess what champ, if you are exploring the limits of a 600/1000cc on public roads, you're an idiot. Properly exploiting those bikes means going to the track. A minority of people who buy a bike for the street go to the track.
What a 600/1000 gives a rider is more power, more TORQUE. That means less goofing around with shifting. This is a blessing in areas with high traffic. I took my 250 to a larger city and what a PITA it was. It took the fun out of riding having to shift so often.
I would recommend a 250 for recreational riding in smaller areas, or back road riding. If I was commuting or planning on doing lots of riding in traffic in larger population areas, I would definitely suggest getting some type of a 600+.
Idiotic?? hmm...
It sounds like you've been riding for a while (and if I am reading your comment correctly you started on a 250cc bike as well). I think its tough for people that have been riding for a long time to remember what it was like when you first got on the bike. For me riding a 600 is super easy and its hard to imagine it being difficult at all, but whenever I start to think that way I have to remember my first bike (a gs500) and all the mistakes I made on it!
my gs500 was super lightweight compared to my bike now, and even though it wasn't that heavy I still managed to drop in 3 times at a standstill within a 6 month period. Not only that, but it was pretty difficult for me to learn to operate the clutch/throttle effectively and not rev the engine way too much. Keep in mind at the time I always drove cars with manual transmissions so shifting so you would think that would give me an advantage, but since motorcycles have the clutch/brakes/shifter completely switched (hands to feet, feet to hands etc..) it was like learning to shift all over again.
Yes, anyone CAN start on a 600cc, but in most cases I definitely wouldn't recommend it. Your statement of 'you shouldn't even be riding a motorcycle' if you can't ride a 600 is ridiculous and completely uninformed. It reminds me of a comment that a guy made to me once asking why I wore so much gear (leather jacket, moto pants, gloves, helmet etc...). I told him if I crashed I wanted to stack the odds in my favor and keep as much skin as possible. He scoffed at that and said I shouldn't even be riding a motorcycle if I was afraid I would crash. Doesn't that sound completely idiotic to you? I can't control every factor when riding a motorcycle, especially other drivers that might do something stupid and cause me to crash. To think you could avoid every possible scenario while riding would mean you would have to have eyes in the back of your head, the fastest reaction time in all humanity, and psychic ability to see what is going to happen a few seconds/minutes before it did. I don't know about you but I don't have any of those qualities.
I digress, what I'm saying is you need to think back to when you were a new rider and how challenging it was before you start recommending 600's to people that shouldn't be riding them. I'm not saying that all people will instantly crash and die if they start on a 600, but I think thats just one more thing stacked against them, and in this game you want to stack as much stuff in your favor as possible.
Ben
~Best Beginner Motorcycles Admin
If you have ridden a dirt
If you have ridden a dirt bike, then your not so much a beginner. I've been on a dirt bike once and flew off of it. I'm a beginner. I believe these guys and I should respect the power the bike wields. I"m def. gonna go with a 250 or a 500.
Thanks guys,
Jason
Well if they "have some
Well if they "have some background on a bike" then we are not talking "beginner" are we?
Legally
I understand why you want a 600+cc when you are older than 16. I want a 250 ninja but my dad is like you will shove your head out your asshole if you wreck. I don't really care about cruisers. I race a KTM 125sx hell that is a fast bike. I had a bad wreck a
few weeks back and was put in the er overnight. I drove a fast 600 before but that is not as fast as my 125. I wish ktm made a 250. Can you set up straight on a ninja? Or any other street bike? I can get it if I don't lay down on the bike.
beginner motorcycle
I think everything is reletive to your own personal cercumstances. If your a reall tall or big person, you are probably going to do well on a larger more powerful bike even as a beginner. But if your less experienced and shorter (smaller)rider, then you may be better off starting out with a smaller used bke. This way you will be able to enjoy the riding rather than worrying about the bike. I ran right out and bought a new Harley sportser custom 1200. It really was too much bike for me. I had no experience and was so nervous and never got to feel fully in control of the bike. Even tough it is considered a small bike, it felt big to me. I ended up selling it, and haven't riden since. I wish I had started on something smaller and lighter (even if not as cool) then I would have gotten some good experience and miles then have many years to upgrade to another bike.
I took the MSF and my
I took the MSF and my instructor gave an undoubted approval when I asked about the concept of an sv650 as a beginner bike (since over and over it is mentioned as one). I've read a ton about gs500,ex250/500/650,sv650 and still can't figure out...Are the sv650s and higher cc Ninjas recommended as a second bike, or is the beginner bike referring to BeginneR?
And if the latter, what's your opinion on this since you are of the frame of mind that a 650 is way too much for a beginner regardless of the bike?
(I'm 5'6/130 and a girl, so I need a light bike...and don't have to deal with the boy fronting issues of how cool or powerful my bike looks...but I do want a bike that has excellent handling, response, and is forgiving to my mistakes)
So many choices!
I honestly only recommend the SV650 as a last resort bike to the people that are dead set on getting a 600cc+ motorcycle no matter what. The SV650's engine (a v-twin) is much more forgiving than your standard Inline-Four engine on a 600cc superbike. That being said, it is still a really powerful bike, and I think if you don't have much experience on a motorcycle then you shouldn't get it. The 500cc ninja is a great bike with a bulletproof engine, plus I believe the seat height is lower than the sv650 which might make a difference for you only being 5'6". They can definitely keep up on the freeway too, in fact I followed some girl on a ninja500 on my way to work and she was hitting mid 80's easy.
I personally started off on a GS500 and it was a great bike for me, but I think if I had to do it all over again I would get a ninja500 instead, or even a ninja250. Don't get me wrong, the GS is a great bike, and great looking, but it was really hard to start in the cold weather, plus I think the Ninja engines are better.
What type of riding do you plan on doing? If you just plan on putting around town and maybe going up in the twisties every now and then I would consider getting a Kawasaki Ninja250. But if on the other hand you will be doing a lot of commuting on a freeway and at high speeds, I would go ahead and get the ninja500 if you feel up to the challenge. The ninja250 can do freeway speeds and I know people that commute on them, but they do get blown around a bit more because they are very light weight. Either bike will hold its value really well, and if you decide to sell it in a year or two I bet you will only lose 100-200 bucks in depreciation.
One more thing, the suzuki sv650 also seems like a really tall bike. I got on my friends sv650, and later his sv1000 and they both seemed pretty tall with a high center of gravity. The ninja's on the other hand both have a relatively low center of gravity and are a few inches shorter if memory serves. Anyway, good luck with your decision!
Ben
Good luck!
Thanks for the quick
Thanks for the quick reply.
Initially I'd be using it for commuting until I got more comfortable with my skills and the bike itself and then I'd probably be hitting the highway to go who knows where and...ultimately I know I'm going to want to race...But, when I reach the point where my skills are up to going to track days, I probably will be looking at another bike anyway.
I have noticed the 250s seem to hold their value well (assuming you buy used). And there are quite a few. Hard to say on the 500 (ninja or gs) as they are few and far between on craigslist here.
I guess what I ultimately don't get is - a 250 vs a 500. Ultimately, it's me rolling the throttle. Both can go fast enough to kill me. As far as I know, neither can do wheelies (which is a Good thing to me right now). So what truly is the difference between the two with one being recommended over the other? Because of the engine size, is one really more likely to leave me sitting on the street when I roll the throttle a bit too much?
thanks again..
Fast or slow.
You actually can wheelie both of those bikes, but it requires a little more clutch work than a 600cc bike that will wheelie by just opening the throttle all the way. They are both good bikes though, and the reason I would recommend a 500 over a 250 is if:
1. You plan on doing a lot more freeway riding
2. You think you can handle the increase in HP over the 250
You really can't go wrong with a 250cc bike. In europe they make you start on 125cc bike, so I think a 250cc would be more than enough for a new rider. On the other hand if you want more power and a bike that will last you longer I would recommend the 500. I mean it all comes down to personal preference.
In the end get the bike that speaks to you. Sit on both motorcycles, get a feel of the seating position, see what feels comfortable and natural to you. Chances are once you do, your decision will be made much easier. Just always have respect regardless of which machine you decide on.
One more thing, generally I think that you will be able to take a 250 to its limits on the street with enough practice. With the 500 that is debatable, and I really don't think you can ride a 600cc bike to its full potential on the streets. With a 600cc bike you need to take it to the track if you plan on riding the hell out of it. So I guess ask yourself this question: Would you rather be driving a slow motorcycle fast, or a fast motorcycle slow?
I hope that helps, although it looks like I have rambled a bit lol.
I didn't realize you could
I didn't realize you could wheelie a 250ninja!? Well, hopefully I will never unintentionally prove that you can.
Anyway, thank you for the advice. It does help a lot.
Thanks also for the site. The comment responses, info on it, etc is great. And...with a lot of forums, it's supposed to be veterans advising newbies...and while it is that, often the advice comes with mocking and insults. This site is a welcome change to that.
Thanks!
250 wheelie
This isn't me, but I just thought I'd show you a video of someone doing a wheelie on a 250 :)
about the bike
oh oh well in the bike world theres no sex involved theres no men or women and bikes don't forget, you are the one who must be in control at all times is this or no control it all unless you are talking about small minute mistakes witch all bikes can somewhat forgive you for. I can see that you are starting right by buying a lighter bike that should always match the rider by size/weight and if you have not ridden a bike before i will recommend help from some one with experience for example many people that ride bikes make mistakes too soon and have accidents this is what takes them out off the streets most of the common errors are: wheelies by accident!, slipping on curves when trying to save a curve taken too fast and end up driving off in to the contention wheel if any and another problem that could happen is driving too close to other cars the car in front of you slams on the breaks and with the anti skid can easily out break you and you just smash in to them this is specially true on wet pavement.
Beginner Bike for someone a little bigger
I've been looking for a good bike to start on, but I have been frustrated. I am a 6'1" guy that weighs in at about 185 or so and it seems like every bike that I look at that is recommended as being good for beginners and not too tricky is so small I feel cramped when I put my feet on the pegs. What can I do? Am I to buy one that is not as "beginner friendly" that feels comfortable, or should I go for one that is "easy to handle" that does not fit me very well. Or is there another bike out there that I might be able to get a hold of that would be big enough and yet still be beginner friendly
I would really recommend a
I would really recommend a dual sport for tall people, in fact even average height people sometimes have a tough time riding dual sports because they are so high! Check out this bike: http://www.bestbeginnermotorcycles.com/suzuki-drz-400-sm-review
If dual sports aren't your thing maybe see if you will fit on an SV650, those bikes I feel are pretty tall. Unfortunately you are most likely going to feel cramped on a lot of sport bikes, that means sitting on a lot of bikes to get one that feels right for you.
Inch by Inch
For comparison, the DRZ400 has a seat height of 35 inches while a Ninja 250 has a seat height of only 29.3 inches. In the world of motorcycles even 1 inch can make a huge difference in comfort. :)
DRZ400
Ben's right, it's a lovely bike, great for a tall guy and still a good beginner's bike that you can grow into, if you've ridden somewhat before. Dual sports with their taller wheels are harder to push into a turn, so they like to stay upright, which is confidence inspiring. Plus they are light, and they are geared to be quick! Put street tire on it like I did my XT225, and you've got a cheap quick city SuperMoto. :D
I am happy with my 250
Hi everyone.
First of all thank you very much for the great website. I enjoyed reading it. I am a new rider and have been riding for 5 months and have about 5000 miles of practice. I only have a motorcycle and commute with it every day. Freeway 101 or 280 in Bay Area are routine parts of my path every day. In the weekend I usually ride to other cities around for fun.
I have a Suzuki GZ 250. It is the best bike ever (for me). Although I have never ridden bigger bikes, I can see it when I ride with other friends in downtown. What I like about the size of my bike is its weight. If you are planning to ride in urban area with an average speed between 35 up to 55, then a small bike is the best option. I can stop my bike completely and wait for 10 seconds at a stop sign or a traffic light without putting my foot on the ground. Ask a guy with a +600 cc bike to do the same!!!
In my opinion, 600+ bikes are great for riders with a higher level of skill than I do. My weight is 190 lbs and my bike weighs about 300 lbs. So, basically the ratio of my weight to bike weight is around 64%. If I ride anything bigger, this ratio decreases. So why is this number important?!! Because when the bike almost weights as much as you do, you can feel the reaction of the bike to any small movement you make very fast and significant. This will help you to find the best position to control the bike. Also, since the bike is light, it is very easy to change your posture and improve the bike control rapidly. In a simple language, when the bike has the same size that you do, it talks to you more clearly (like friends at the same age!)
In addition, horsepower is not the neccesary for someone like me. As a new rider, I need to learn how to make judgment about my speed and road condition and other drivers, and also how I position myself on the bike for turns or quick stops without focusing on other more advanced details like throttle control. Making mistakes and even falling the bike is part of the process of learning about the bike and the rider's limit. Last week, I dropped my bike in a tight turn, because a FedEx trailer crossed a double yellow line in the middle of the turn (from the other side) because its front tire exploded and it block my lane completely (About 30 feet ahead of me). I just had time to straighten up the bike and brake as hard as I can. And yes, I laid down the bike, but I stopped 9 feet before the trailer. There is no doubt for me, that if I had a larger bike with my current level of skills, I could not straighten the bike quickly enough to perform a quick stop. My bike was damaged about 200$ or even less. I was able to stand up and to ride my bike to work right after the accident with out any mechanical problem or physical problem. But I would imagine, if a +600 cc landed on my ankle, I would prefer to stay home for few days before riding my bike.
So, my conclusion is, I think there are so many things that new riders like me can learn and enjoy from a motorcycle, that horsepower would definitely goes to the bottom of my current list.
Thanks for your time.
Great!
Thanks for sharing some of your experiences with a 250cc motorcycle! One thing you didn't mention is I bet the 250 is much easier to lane split with than a 600cc bike, although you might not be doing too much of that in the beginning, once you do start learning I bet your bike will help.
You are absolutely right.
You are absolutely right. Actually, since I commute with my bike everyday in freeways, I do split lanes when the average speed of the cars is below 35 mph. My bike is very light and narrow. Also it is not loud, and it does not piss(!) off people when I pass them.
When I wanted to buy my bike, I did some research and talked to few veteran riders. At the beginning, I liked to get a big fast bike. The veteran riders taught me a valuable lesson. It is not important how fast I can go in one ride, it is important how long I can joyfully ride without putting my life in a great risk. If you like riding for years, riding a small bike for a year does not make any difference compared to years of riding big bikes in future. I like to ride, and I want to do it in perfect health years after year. As a new rider, I have plenty of time to explore riding and moving up to bigger bikes. There is no rush for me!
In addition, I think having a passion to ride fast bikes for novice riders is not bad. However, today's traffic is very challenging and it is very easy for a new rider like me to make a mistake and finish the riding career. To those new riders, who like to practice riding fast bikes, I would suggest going to race tracks. The environment is very safe, and the riders are so open to assist new riders learning the correct techniques. And the most important point about riding on a track, when you lean your bike, there is no 18 wheeler truck waiting for you after the turn, so you can push your limits safely and enjoy high speeds.
Thanks
Vulcan 500
Anyone have any thoughts about this bike? I've taken the MSF course but don't have very much experience outside of that. I'm a heavy guy.. about 265 lbs and 6 feet tall. Would the Vulcan 500 be a good beginner bike? Do I need to buy something bigger because of my size?
I'd really appreciate any feedback I can get from experienced riders. I'm looking to buy a bike very soon but would like to make the right decision.
Thanks.
Vulcan
Check out our review of the Vulcan 500 LTD.
http://www.bestbeginnermotorcycles.com/kawasaki-vulcan-500-ltd-review
There are lots of comments of people in your similar situation, and the bottom line is the vulcan is a very capable motorcycle and it won't have any trouble getting you places in a hurry.
Ben
~Best Beginner Motorcycles Admin
Bad Idea
I have been riding for 100,000+ miles and my first bike was a vulcan 800, and far too small for me. You will probably feel like a circus bear on a 500. I currently ride a vulcan 1500 classic, great ride, I love it. Seems as though the article is focused more on sport bikes than cruisers. Sport bikes have a much faster 1/4 mile, red line limit (11-12,000 RPM vs. a cruiser at 5,500-6000 RPM). Bottom line they are built for speed and acceleration, cruisers are built for people who just want to enjoy the ride. both bikes have their place and I do love riding my buddy's Hayabusa every now and again and I certainly would not recommend something with that much power for a begginner. Bottom line, if you are shopping cruisers, I would highly recommend getting one that you feel comfortable sitting on in the dealership and has good suspension.
100,000 miles
Since you have been riding for 100,000 miles I am going to assume that means you have been riding for at least a few years, if not a decade or more. Older larger displacement motorcycles (like those built in the early 90's and late 80's) are much more forgiving compared to modern day equivalents. The vulcan 500 is based off the Ninja 500 engine, and the Ninja500 is considered a 'sports bike', therefore even though you are getting the look of a cruiser when you buy the vulcan, you are actually getting as much power as a 500cc sportbike.
One thing that is harder for veteran riders to get their heads around is how difficult it is for some people to learn throttle control and to not get in over their heads. It floors me when I see new riders on 600cc sportbikes that can barely control their acceleration at all. This leads to jerky starts and stops, and in the worst scenarios a crash (just check youtube if you don't believe me!). For me easing out the clutch and twisting the throttle is second nature and it seems completely easy, but for newbies it is very very hard.
Ben
~Best Beginner Motorcycles Admin
Versys
Have you heard anything about the Kawi Versys? I've read a couple reviews and they seem to highlight how balanced it is an how smooth the power delivery is. It seems like a relatively solid bike, but it is 650cc.
good 2nd bike
what do you think would be a good second bike if you started off on a 250 or 500 ninja, and you had been riding that for about a year and a half, but you felt comfortable on it. and was ready to move up to a bigger bike.
Are you really ready? What
Are you really ready?
What do other bikes have to offer that the ninja 500 doesn't? Great speed, sure, but along with that comes danger. Better look? You can't see the bike when you're sitting on it.
So what makes you want to switch? Just because you have the experience doesn't mean you should.
What is your motivation?
2nd bike
A great second bike is a Suzuki SV650, it provides lots of power, is a bit heavier than the 500 but it can still rail in the turns.
If you are really super comfortable on the ninja 250/500 then maybe consider getting a 600cc sportsbike like a Yamaha r6, honda f4i, or a Kawasaki ZX6r. Out of all of those I would probably recommend the f4i (not the RR), or maybe the kawasaki ZZR which is a 600cc sportsbike with a more upright position.
In the end it really depends on what you are comfortable with. I wouldn't suggest going beyond 750cc's for your second bike though.
Ben
~Best Beginner Motorcycles Admin
2nd bike
thanks. i think that i like the ZZR the best.
You don't know what your
You don't know what your talking about. Giving a 600 cc motorcycle lots of throttle will not automatically result in a wheelie let alone flip the bike, especially a stock one. I have +4 on my rear sprocket on my R6 and only when I really get on it from 1st to 2nd will it come up a little. It also comes up when I rev it up in 2nd and pop the clutch but thats a different story!
It's not about whether it
It's not about whether it will pop a wheelie when you give it throttle. It's about the experience level. With a lot of good lower CC bikes its a crime not to start out something smaller for a first bike.
I wouldn't want to learn on a larger bike until I know I could handle it, Right now with 3 weeks of riding under my belt i am still not sure I could handle it.
Larger people need larger bikes
I'm 6'1 264lbs (dry weight). Man, those bikes with the 250 look like toys when I stand next to them. I feel that if I sat on one the tires would explode. How in the world would a 250 respond with someone of my height and girth stressing the engine?
I went to a Kawasaki dealer and informed him that I had never ridden before and he immediately gave me a brochure for a MSF course in the area (I live in Grand Prairie, TX) which I plan on taking once I'm closer to getting my bike so the info is fresh in my mind. Anyway, I then asked what would be a good bike to start out on and he looked me up and down and immediately (the guy's pretty quick) took me to the Vulcan 900 Classic LT. I sat on it and it was love at first straddle.
I did a lot of research on the Vulcan 900 and I've found 99% of the reviews to be favorable, most even suggesting that it is a good starter bike.
I asked the Kawasaki dealer if it was a good idea to purchase a brand new bike with all that pretty chrome just begging to be destroyed by a newbie that dropped it. He immediately (once again) took me to another model and pointed out the crash bars (I can't remember the politically correct way to reference them) and said they could save my engine, handlebars, that beautiful chrome, and even a leg in the event of a drop. I was just wondering if you agreed.
I want to do what you're suggesting and start small, but man, even the Vulcan seemed mid-size to me. Love the forum!
900 Vulcan
A 900cc bike is NOT a good starter bike under any circumstances. If you think the ninja 250 is going to be too small for you (It might be a LITTLE small, but it could still get you around plenty quick) then go for a 500cc bike like the Vulcan 500 ltd: http://www.bestbeginnermotorcycles.com/kawasaki-vulcan-500-ltd-review
Just because you are bigger than your average new rider doesn't mean that you have some sort of advanced skills that they don't. You still need to learn the basics, so I wouldn't recommend going over 500cc's, it will have tons of power to get you around. Also you ARE going to drop the bike (points for you for asking the salesman about it, it shows you are thinking ahead!). I must have dropped my first bike 3-5 times, and at least one of those times the bike pinned my leg down! Get a cheap used vulcan 500 from someone local and use that to learn on. After you spent 6 months to a year on that then you can sell it, recoup your investment and put it towards the vulcan 900. The great thing about that plan is you will most likely keep the vulcan 900 for a while, and since you made all of your 'newbie mistakes' (read: Drops, scratches, etc..) you will be able to appreciate the 900's power and beauty much more.
One more thing: Don't trust salesmen!
If an honest person were going to recommend a bike to someone who hadn't ridden a motorcycle before then they wouldn't suggest something 900cc's unless they were going to get something in return; Like a nice fat commission! The salesmen will almost always steer you towards the larger displacment bikes because they are a LOT more expensive, which means more cash in their pocket. Don't trust them!
Ben
~Best Beginner Motorcycles Admin
I gotta disagree
As much as I agree with your statement that a 600cc sportbike is way too much for a beginner, I have to disagree when you say the Vulcan 900 isn't a good starter bike. You have to understand that when comparing sportbikes to cruisers, ccs are practically irrelevant. The 900 is rated at about 50hp, which I would guess is comparable to the Ninja 500 that you do recommend. Of course, it's heavier at about 575 lbs but the seat height is also quite a bit lower, which gives us short folks a lot of confidence. My 900 Custom is my first bike and it's great. Now I did have a little experience in that I knew the basics of how to ride (rode dirtbikes some as a kid, but never owned one), so maybe to someone that didn't have my confidence level wouldn't do well on it, but I think discounting it outright simply because it's 900ccs is a little misguided.
I disagree with your disagreement
I love when people say, "Even though this bike is over 600cc's, its a good starter bike because I started on it.... oh yeah and I have had experience riding motorcycles before"
Is it possible to start on a 600, 750, 1000, or 1200cc motorcycle regardless of type, cruiser or sportbike. Yes, it is possible. Would I recommend it? If you are a new rider I definitely would NOT!
Let me ask you this, which would be a better motorcycle to start on, the vulcan 500 with comparable power to the ninja 500 since it is based on the same engine, or the vulcan 900 which is heavier and more powerful? Obviously the vulcan 500 is the better starter bike. That doesn't mean that you CAN'T start on the vulcan 900, but why make things harder than they have to be?
I do recommend some bikes that are over 600cc's, specifically the SV650 and the ninja650, but I would really only recommend those to people like yourself that have at least a little experience riding on dirtbikes or something similar.
Ben
~Best Beginner Motorcycles Admin
Okay....
Ok, so yeah maybe the Vulcan 500 would be a "better" beginner bike than the 900. But that doesn't mean the 900 is a bad beginner bike. You still didn't explain why the 900 isn't suitable to learn on when it has less power than 2 bikes you DO recommend, namely the Ninja 500 and the SV-650 (the SV has about 50% more HP btw). You also seem to be under the incorrect assumption that the Vulcan 500 and the Ninja 500 share the same engine. If by share the same engine, you mean share the same block, then yeah you're right. But the Vulcan version is detuned; in fact, a common performance mod to the Vulcan 500 is to put Ninja 500 cams in it. My only point is that comparing CCs to CCs across bike types makes no sense, and to disqualify a bike outright simply because OMGZ it's 900CCs is a naive.
Naive
I definitely haven't researched the Vulcan 900 nearly as thoroughly as you, and I do admit that the reason I haven't is because I saw, "Hey, this is 900cc's, since the vulcan 500 is based on the same engine as the ninja 500, I'm going to assume that this 900cc bike is going to be way too powerful for a newbie." Color me naive.
I am not the end all be all of motorcycle information, I run this site in my spare time because it is my passion while I have another full time job so I don't get to check out all the bikes I would like to (i.e. Every motorcycle made!). I will definitely make a note to research the vulcan 900 more and see if it qualifies enough for me to recommend it as a 'beginner motorcycle'. Thanks for the info!
Ben
~Best Beginner Motorcycles Admin
have you seen a monkey
have you seen a monkey trying to ride my motorbike? that was what ben was tying to say. learn to handle first.
900 Vulcan
Thanks for your reply. I decided I'd give the Kawi 500 a go.
I appreciate and respect the opinions given here and elsewhere. I also appreciate the fact that there are riders out there that give all this great information in the interest of helping a newcomer to the game.
I'm not really interested in breaking the sound barrier on a bike. My reason for riding is I want the experience more than anything else. I remember when I was younger, I'd ride my bike to places and down streets I normally wouldn't just because it was nice to explore. With a motorcycle, that sense of exploration will hit a totally different level.
Do you think a Kawi 500 could be used on a long trip? As my confidence increases and my skill increases, I will want to go on a fairly long trip over a weekend in order to satiate my love of travel. This probably wouldn't happen until after I had gotten comfortable with highway riding. My ultimate goal is to take a couple of weeks of work and travel to my hometown of Toledo, OH from Grand Prairie (about a 2400 round trip.)
It sucks that I have to be patient with learning how to ride than just getting on and going, but in the interest of safety and wanting to see my family everyday, patience wins out.
Dual Sport as Beginner Bike
Just my 2 cents, but automatically discounting a bike based on cc's alone is misleading. Example a Yamaha R6 with 600cc's makes well over 100 horsepower, while my Kawasaki KLR 650 makes about 35 horsepower, so cc's alone don't tell the whole story. A single cylinder 650 thumper is a far cry from an inline 4 race bred motor.
The real reason I was commenting was to offer up an alternative beginner bike for some of the folks who like the i'm a big guy i need a bike bike. take a look at the Kawasaki KLR 650. This is a dual sport bike. Combination of low end power, upright riding position and high seat height make it a good choice for first time riders. They can also be had for cheap brand new ($5K) and for even less used. They are reliable, get great gas mileage (read 55+ mpg), are comfortable to ride long distance, have tons of aftermarket support, and you can ride them off road!
I am 6' tall and 185 pounds. My KLR is my first bike, and in about 9 weeks I have put over 2k miles on it.
If you have never ever riden then take this advice.
1) Don't worry about what your friends ride. Your first bike should get you through your first year unscathed and that's it. It doesn't have to look cool, go fast, or impress the ladies.
2) Practice, practice, practice. Ride as often as you can, and ride at your own pace. If you can't keep up with your friends, then either find people who will ride your pace, or ride alone. Just whatever you do don't ride over your head. It's supposed to be fun, it's not supposed to scare the crap out of you
3) Buy some decent gear and WEAR it. Decent Gear = DOT and Snell approved helmet, Jacket with some armor (elbows and shoulders), jeans or work pants (carharts are great), and some leather boots, or motorcycle specific boots
4) take the MSF, it is in valuable, and will teach you the right habits. I took this class and the guys who showed up unlicensed on big harley and R6's had the hardest time because they already had bad habits, and they spent a lot of time breaking them rather than building a new skill from the ground up. Also, don't fear the MSF, case in point. I was terrified of the offset cone weave (especially after reading about it online) when it came time to do it, not only was it easy (due to the progression of skills i leared in MSF) it was also great fun! The classes are very ego free and the instructors (at least the ones i had) were great.
Happy riding
Great post!
Excellent points NorCalKLR! The more and more I hear about dual sports the more I want one of my own :)
The reason that I generally say 'stay away from 600cc bikes,' is most people don't know the difference between engines. I mean a 650cc V-Twin is completely different than a 600cc I-4 in both power delivery and max horsepower.
Ben
~Best Beginner Motorcycles Admin
Dual Sport 650s
Excellent and intelligent advice, I'd just point out that the Suzuki DR650 is also a nice dual sport. I know KLR riders are damn loyal though! :D
conflicting messages...and the multistrada
Hi, I just took the safety course and have begun the search for a bike. I am getting very confused by conflicting information. What is more important for beginner safety?...smaller bikes, low weight etc....or being able to have the power to merge with traffic/avoid possible hazards? I appreciate your site and started to take your advice to heart, but then went to a dealer today for a look-see and was given very convincing arguments for more power as a safety feature. Granted, I know they are trying to sell me a bike, but they were also getting a honda 250 ( rebel i think?) in that they also could have sold me. Here are their arguments for NOT starting on something as small as a 250.
-mainly, you can't avoid dangers, highway is not as safe, speed maxes out
- that they are light, wind will be more of an issue- especially making a nervous beginner feel more unsafe
- that the braking/transmissions are much less quality on these smaller bikes...she was talking about the multistrada and how if I make a mistake on the downshift it will automatically correct my rpms so won't lock up the back tire...(something I would REALLY like to not happen! ).
- also that you develop poor skills...braking too hard etc because not as responsive as a better bike.
- basically that if you are out in the real world, it is going to fail you and within 6 weeks you'd wish for something else.
I went in very skeptical and had no intention of buying anything other than a used 250 of some sort, the 500 vulcan at the most...I just wanted to feel the weight of some other ones as my course bike was a kawasaki 125 (which, if it could safely go on the highway, I would be more than happy to stay with at this point...I still don't really trust the bike!). However she was very very convincing...as a petite girl, telling me all about our women's ways of riding etc...
So I know you advocate smaller bikes, but what about the safety on highways issue, and other points she raises?
She also was saying that the multistrada 650 was a great first bike (2nd choice being the triumph bonneville). What is your opinion on these bikes as beginner bikes?
Her big pitch for them in my eyes was that the parallel and v twin engines would provide the power needed, but would do so smoothly so as to avoid beginner problems. Also again, that superior performance would offset my mistakes.
I prefer standard bikes...the aesthetics of the bonneville, but have to say that the bonneville felt more top heavy to me, I did feel fairly balanced on the multistrada (which got glowing remarks from everyone there, and how it was the perfect bike for me)....so now I'm entirely confused about which way to go. I don't care about show or muscle (though do like the old school standard style...) but I do want it to be safe and forgiving of my MANY mistakes! I commute across the bay bridge, so eventually I need to think about bridge traffic/highways.
Any help would be sooo nice!
Clueless advice
Hey Clueless,
I'm glad you are getting information from multiple sources! You shouldn't trust any one source (including BBM!) and you are doing the right thing by asking the dealer as well as surfing the web. I will address the dealerships points one by one:
-mainly, you can't avoid dangers, highway is not as safe, speed maxes out
This is true to an extent, but not entirely accurate. Sure if you are traveling 70mph on a ninja 250 you won't be able to twist the throttle and pass someone in a split second, but its not going to leave you hanging either. It increases speed about the same as a honda civic at that speed, not super fast, but quick enough. One thing to keep in mind is you won't be hitting triple digits on a 250, but do you really need to on the freeway?
At lower speeds and standstills it is a different story. Here is a quote from my ninja 250 review:
"It can run the 1/4 mile in 14.6 seconds at 88mph which isn't as fast as other larger displacement bikes, but I think this is more than enough for the real world. For comparison the 2003 Acura 3.2CL Type-S will run the quarter mile in 14.9 seconds, so as you can see this little ninja can beat a lot of imports off the line. The 250R can hit 60mph in 5.75 seconds, which is just as fast as the the 2002 Subaru ImprezaWRX which can hit 60mph in 5.7 seconds. Although I don't recommend drag racing, this little ninja is no slouch!" - you can read the whole review here: http://www.bestbeginnermotorcycles.com/kawasaki-ninja-250-review
The 250 is a very capable bike, but if you are REALLY worried about being able to get out of danger quickly then get a ninja 500, it will have about twice the horsepower if I remember correctly.
- that they are light, wind will be more of an issue- especially making a nervous beginner feel more unsafe
Wind is definitely an issue on light weight bikes, but it really isn't that bad and I feel like it builds skill in the long run. Will you get blown around if you go over a winder bridge? Sure, but I still get blown around on my 600 as well. Wind isn't really that big a deal, you just have to be more focused, and basically any bike is going to be blown around a lot more than a car.
The light weight is a plus at lower speeds because it means you are much less likely to drop your bike. When it comes to statistics you are MUCH more likely to drop your bike in the first 6 months than you are to get blown by the wind so hard that you cause an accident. Again, if you area really worried about this then get a heavier bike like the vulcan 500 or the ninja 500.
- that the braking/transmissions are much less quality on these smaller bikes...she was talking about the multistrada and how if I make a mistake on the downshift it will automatically correct my rpms so won't lock up the back tire...(something I would REALLY like to not happen! ).
That is true, usually the 250's don't have all the gadgets and gizmos that the newer race replica 600's are going to have. Are they unsafe? No. Do they require you to be more focused? Yes.
It is VERY easy to lock up the front tire on a larger displacement bike and go over the front handle bars, I should know, that happened to me when I was riding a Honda f2! Right now a few bikes have ABS brakes like the Honda Interceptor that make braking easier, but does that mean that any bike without ABS is inherently unsafe? I would have to say No, since most bikes do NOT come with ABS of even have the option. If you buy a bike that is 2000+ they are going to have good brakes relative to the size of the vehicle. You don't need some monstrous breaking power with a ninja 250 like you would need on a heavier and more powerful hayabusa.
If you down shift twice instead of once you know what will happen? The bike will get really loud and will slow down much more than usual because you are traveling at a higher RPM. I have done this before and it has never made my rear tire want to lock up, instead what I do is as soon as I notice my RPM's are too high, I just pull in the clutch and up shift. Problem solved. It's really not that big a deal, and not that common at all. I think I have only done it 2 times in 2 years of riding.
- also that you develop poor skills...braking too hard etc because not as responsive as a better bike.
This is FALSE. 100% a lie. If anything you develop BETTER skills by starting off on a small bike than you would starting off on a larger one. Do yourself a favor and don't trust me, just go find a couple riders that rode a 250cc bike for the first 6 months to a year of riding and they will tell you that doing that made them a better, faster, and safer rider.
Their argument is that as soon as you move up to a bigger bike you are going to try and ride it exactly like you would a 250, and if you do that then I could see it being dangerous. You aren't an idiot though. In fact, NO one is that much of an idiot. If a bike has 2-3x the horsepower then you are going to treat it like that. The first time you ride you won't twist the throttle as much because you know it will pick up much faster. After a few days/weeks you will get to know the newer, faster bike and it won't be an issue. Plus you can take all of the skills you learned while riding, a 250 like being able to carry speed into turns instead of breaking and trying to power out of the turns, and transfer them to the larger bike which will make you a much faster and more confident rider.
- basically that if you are out in the real world, it is going to fail you and within 6 weeks you'd wish for something else.
Ridiculous! This one is also a lie. After you have been riding for a few weeks and you get the hang of the clutch, throttle, and brake, you might think, "Hey this is easy, I want something with more power."
That is a perfectly valid thought, but I would urge you not to sell it for at least 6 months to a year. A 250 cc can be as much, if not MORE fun in the twisties than a larger displacement bike. I am actually planning on getting one of the new 2008 ninja 250's and turning it into an exclusive track bike, that is how much fun they are. With a 250 you won't be able to go light speed in a straight line, but who cares? Any monkey can twist the throttle and go fast, but it takes real skill to go fast in the turns, and those are the skills you will learn by sticking with the 250 for a while.
Her big pitch for them in my eyes was that the parallel and v twin engines would provide the power needed, but would do so smoothly so as to avoid beginner problems. Also again, that superior performance would offset my mistakes.
She is correct that the V-twins do deliver power in a manageble way, but I honestly would only recommend one of them if a new rider was ABSOLUTELY SET on getting at LEAST a 600cc bike. They still have gobs of power for a newbie to control, plus they are much heavier which can lead to trouble at low speeds.
I would also recommend NOT looking at Triumphs and Ducatis for your first bike. They are very pretty, and you will be VERY sad if/when you drop it while moving around the parking lot. That is one of the other reasons you should get a cheap beginner bike, they are inexpensive so you won't care as much when you drop it at low speeds. I personally dropped my first bike, a gs500, 3 times within my first 6 months or riding, and one of the times the bike pinned my leg down! If the GS500 hadn't been so light I would have been in serious trouble, but thankfully I was able to lift it just enough to get my foot out without any damage.
So in summary, most of these are not 'problems' they are just inconveniences, and if they really bug you than they can be solved by getting a 500cc bike. Let me know what you decide, and keep getting info from multiple sources!
Ben
~Best Beginner Motorcycles Admin
Thanks so much...you really
Thanks so much...you really answered so many of my questions. I think you offer a great service...even after the course I feel so clueless, and this really helps! I'll keep you posted when I'm bike in hand!
Is a ninja safe?
I really want a 250 ninja to drive to school and back. It will be my main transportation. My dad says you have to lay down on them
to drive. I disagree. He says that having your head over your legs
is a bad thing. Im not sure what to do. I'm scared and amazed and need to convience
my dad it is a good begginner bike for a 14 year old. I know how to ride cause
I race a ktm 85 and rode bigger bikes. Too bad you can't turn pro in oklahoma till 250s.
I recently had an wreck and ended up in the er. Could you help? Thanks.
I'm trying to picture riding
I'm trying to picture riding a bike with your legs over your head and fail to see how that's any safer... :-P
But in all truth, it's a motorcycle. There's risks no matter what class of bike or power of bike you start on. There's advantages to starting on a smallish bike like a 250, but in the big scheme of things, riding a 250cc bike or higher cc bike, the dangers are the same in regards to other motorists. The increase in risk comes mostly from the person reflected in the mirror. But you're dad's not completely right. You don't have to lay down (assuming he means full tuck) to ride a sports bike. You can ride them somewhat upright, you're still forward leaned a bit, but you don't have to be in a full tuck. And the ninja bikes are actually the more upright riding position sport bikes. G'luck in your travails.
---
If there's anything more important than my ego
around, I want it caught and shot now...
Thanks for the super info
Hi, after standing by on the sidelines for two years and watching the thousands of people riding by on their Harleys with big smiles on their faces (and without a helmet in sight, I might add) during "Lone Star Biker Rally" in Galveston, Texas, I decided that "if they can do it, i can do it"...
So, I've been reading like crazy on the internet , but your postings and comments are just what I needed - the honest truth!
I can see that the HD advertising is designed to sell a dream/lifestyle - and that it is totally unrealistic for any new rider to even go near one of those! Thanks for planting the "be patient" seed! I could probably have convinced myself that people who wreck are taking unnecessary chances - and that they were poorly trained - not that they started on too powerful of a bike!
Thanks!! I'll keep reading.
Thanks Johndurfey
Thanks for the comments John! I'm really glad you liked the site, and I'm happy you are learning a lot from it. America doesn't like delayed gratification, we want everything NOW, even if it might be really dangerous.
Let me know what type of bike you get, and post some pictures in the forum :)
Ben
~Best Beginner Motorcycles Admin
the urge to move up to a bigger bike
I have been riding since August 2007. I really have the urge to add a second bike to my garage, currently I'm on a Kawasaki KLR 650, but can't seem to shake the urge to run out and buy a Triumph street triple.
So far temptation resisted, and really waiting 6 months to a year before swimming to the deep end isn't that long of a wait. Plus my mind has changed so many times regarding what bike I want that I know even when I do buy the dream bike, there's always going to be something better, faster, cooler, etc out their to drool over.
Also riding can be very humbling when you start to think you've got it figured out. Things like stalling when you haven't stalled the bike for 3 months! Or dumping it on the hood of your girlfriends car as you back it out of the garage, or running off the side of dirt road (hazard of a dual sport bike!) have a way of reminding you that your still a noob. I'm confident that patience will pay off
mmm...
Patience young skywalker...
Ben
~Best Beginner Motorcycles Admin
New Rider GSX-R 600
Hi guys, I have read all the posts and am still confused, that is half'n'half! My cousin (same height & weight as me) has a GSX-R 600 and as soon as I saw him and his boys all go out on their bikes I said yeh, I want one. I currently have a nice coupe, but have just started working in central London and as such do not take it to work and don't even drive it much on the weekends cause I have just lost the enthusiasm. I said a bike will fit me really well as I do not have to pay congestion charge and will ride it more than I drive my car and so I just put a £300 deposit down on a GSX-R 600 K7 (I like the tiny exhaust). Now I just took my CBT and it did not go as well as planned, I did not get to the recommended standard in time and so spent the time allocated for road driving doing more training, it did me good as I felt alot more at ease and went around on the bike alot better. I have a DAS course booked in September but am thinkin maybe I should forget the whole bike idea. Ok I will lose my £300 deposit, but will not be in an accident due to not knowing how to ride a bike great, what should I do? Should I take the DAS course and see how that goes and if all goes well on the 500s get my GSX-R 600 or just forget about the idea completely? I really want to ride a bike, but do not want to put myself in unessecary danger...ADVICE PLEASE!!!
Gooday!
I would recommend losing the 300 deposit and getting a cheaper 250cc or 500cc motorcycle (used if at all possible). The money you will save in scratched fairings will more than make up for the 300 if/when you drop your bike.
Riding a motorcycle is inherently dangerous, there is no way around it. The most you can do is stack the odds in your favor by starting on a smaller bike, getting the proper safety gear, and not riding above your skill level. If you do all those things then you are much less likely to die or suffer serious injury than someone who does not.
One more thing, I'm not sure but I thought in London you HAVE to start on a 125cc bike? Don't you guys have a tiered licensing system?
Ben
~Best Beginner Motorcycles Admin
New Rider GSX-R 600
Thanks for the advice Ben. How about this scenario, I'll tell the bike shop to restrict the bike to 33bhp for me, so I can get used to it for a while and worst come to worst, if after that I think I still cannot handle it, sell it? Better to have loved and lost than to not have loved at all right?
Erm nah I haven't heard that rule that you have to start on a 125cc...as long as you pass the DAS you should be good to go!
Oh and I'm thinkin I'll take the DAS in December as planned, and if I don't pass that, I'll give up the whole idea, if I do, all goes ahead. I only plan to ride the bike in summer now and again to stunt (look good) in the sun, not to do dare devil stunts...
Gixxer
I didn't realize a mechanic could restrict the bikes power? What would they do just remove 2 of the 4 spark plugs? I'm really not the mechanical so I don't really know.
One of the reasons I recommend a smaller bike is they are light weight and easier to manuever at low speeds. Plus almost every new rider drops their bike at low speeds or a standstill, I personally dropped my first bike 3 times, and my second bike once. My first bike was a naked GS500 so there were no expensive fairings to scratch up, and the second bike luckily had frame sliders so it didn't do much damage.
If you haven't purchased the bike yet I would really recommend starting on something smaller, it will make you a 10x better rider in the long run. if you already bought the gixxer then ride safe, wear full gear, and take it slow. It is really easy to get overconfident on a bike, especially at the 6 month mark, and at the 2 year mark. Let us know how it turns out.
Ben
~Best Beginner Motorcycles Admin
New Ride - EX650
Bought my 1st bike in August. Chose a 650 with the idea that I'd stick with it for years. It's a great bike, not heavy and since it has FI doesn't have some of the cold start problems that the 250 and 500 are well-known for. So why the 650?
1. I drive a stick shift - although even with 20+ years experience of stick shift it took 1000+ miles to get used to the 6 speed gearbox (including 1 stall!)
2. Yes - I fell for it! I like the look of the 650.
3. I had ridden a scooter for the previous 4 years. Consequently I aced the MSF course.
4. It's light and has a low seat.
It's been great fun and no regrets.
What would I change second time around?
I'd for sure take some more time (and intend to when the snow melts) to go back to the MSF training site and get a good handle on low speed manouvers.
I'd be more patient and wait for a used bike at the right price, I got a "good deal" on the one I bought but could have easily saved $500 by waiting a couple of months.
Just some thoughts......
gixxer etc..
Hi Ben, nice informative site..
I'm a 30yo from Australia and been riding sice last sept or so.. lets say at least 5 months.
re: Gixxer, in the UK (england) and in Australia and perhaps other countries too, they have a Leaner Legal category. this is where bikes that output more then 33hp are restricted down. usually by adding restricted collars into the airbox.. these are removable. also sometimes also the exhaust is modified to slow airflow. The sv650 is one of those that is commonly made learner legal successfully due to its flatter torque curve. a gixxer would perhaps respond not as well to restricting, although it is done.
notes - CBT is UK's Compalsary Bike Test - basic training for upto 125cc. - DAS, is Direct access system, allows successful riders to pass a competency system to ride any cc bike. allowing a noob to ride a 1000cc bike..
ps i lived in UK for 3yrs. (Notts)
I've been an avid MC fan for a long time. but last year i made my dream a reality. In Aust, well Queensland where i live, we have a basic learners rating.. 5 qstn test that allows you to ride upto 250cc. the traditional system required you to have a 250 for 2yrs before progressing to a open cc bike. (assuming u passed test). Alternatively a few yrs ago in QLD, the Q-Ride system was launched. allowing a noob to start out and once deemed competent be legally permitted to ride any cc bike. the course is a 2.5-3 day course which starts on a honda cb250 then progresses to a suzi es500. once passed on the 500, u get your open bike lic.. unrestricted. except for unabl