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The “Five to Survive” Rule & Why You Should Use It
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haakon59Participant
I am wondering, should I consider something like a Kawasaki Vulcan 500? Will it be forgiving enough to learn on–although not as good as the 250’s, I will have to be much more careful. Can I learn on a 500? Will this allow me to keep the bike longer before I feel I have outgrown it? Just wondering here. Since I actually am starting with no particular skills at all, I think it will be better for me to stick with the 250. I am guessing a 500cc bike will be too powerful for me at first anyway. But I have read about some who went out and purchased 650’s and are still OK. Sure, the bike was powerful in a scary way until they got used to it and they had to be cautious. Any thoughts?
haakon59ParticipantI agree, fear is often irrational and disabling. But if you use thoughts about potential “disasters” to motivate yourself to think about how to deal with the situation more rationally, I think it can be helpful. My own personal style is that I like to imagine potential events before they happen so I can think about what the best reaction might be. Training can be very helpful.
I had a friend when I was 16 who was 18 and had been riding motocross since he was 9. He was extremely skilled and had won many races. Unfortunately, he was taking a ride with a friend down a neighborhood street when an old lady darted out from a side street and killed him–the passenger lived. Even when you are an excellent rider, sometimes freak things are going to happen. Even so, my feeling is that it is better to rehearse and prepare. At the same time, you absolutely don’t want to become immobilized because then you will be doing the wrong thing at the wrong time and hate everything during the process. My goal is to develop my skill and enjoy the process.
haakon59ParticipantI have to admit, I am surprised. I would think they would make sure there were enough 250’s out there to meet the demand, but I suppose the economics of the business encourages them to emphasize the bigger bikes, which most people buy eventually anyway. Thanks for telling me this.
haakon59ParticipantWow, I didn’t realize the Honda would be difficult to find–I guess I figured that everyone needs to learn to ride at some point and would choose the lower cc bikes first. Thanks for the heads up.
haakon59ParticipantThanks for the link, that is a good article, very useful to read. 80 mph is fine for me, as you mentioned, my focus will be on learning. It sounds like there is no particular brand which has a “superior” advantage, that all of them will be fine as long as I feel comfortable on them? This is good to hear. I have to admit, the Ninja reviews are pretty outstanding, so I will have to visit the dealer who has them nearby. But I am happy to read you say that it’s all about my preference. Initially, I have been thinking along the lines of a cruiser type rather than the sport configuration, because I didn’t want to be hunched over as I ride but I have been looking at the videos online and it doesn’t seem that the Ninja forces you lean over as much. People really seem to like it, so I will have to try it out.
I did sit on the Suzuki S40 and although it is easy to sit on it is a 650, which I am thinking will be too powerful for a first bike–but it is very nice. Maybe I am being a wuss about that. If I were experienced I would love a Suzuki Boulevard M50 or the Moto Guzzi Nevada 750. Haven’t looked at the Buell Blast yet in person, I will want to do this it sounds like a very nice bike.
I am still thinking about the Rebel as a first bike for after I get through the course–I like the look of that one (and the Yamaha too). Thanks for your input.
haakon59ParticipantMaybe I should have used the term “disabling fear”. You are not trying to hypnotize yourself not to fear at all, just to learn ways to react by involving more mental/psychological resources in order to overcome the situation you are in. The idea in part is to be more “objective” and less emotional and react better so that you will be able to take whatever useful action is required. In a sense, it is all about learning how to focus better.
haakon59ParticipantI have a friend who owns a Hyosung and his comment to me is that he feels it is an especially good bargain and that the parts are higher quality than you normally find for the price. At the same time, he is also unintimidated by working on his bike and fixing small things that go wrong. Nonetheless, he likes Hyosung and has been encouraging me to buy one. When it comes to styling, Hyosung is pretty nice. For myself, well, I am not a rider yet, but I have done some research and I would tend to go with brands of proven reliability, like Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha, Kawasaki, etc.
Although I haven’t taken the test yet I was considering buying a bike ahead of time, but now have decided to take the safety course first and then try out bikes. Best of luck.
haakon59ParticipantThis is an interesting discussion. Some very sobering accounts. I am not a rider yet, so I have no stories to tell, but I can talk about another experience I had which was fear-inducing: training to fight. To learn some psychological skills I found a tape set (remember cassettes?) that was called “Gold Metal Workout”, if I remember correctly. The instructor was a man who had earned the silver in Judo in the Olympics. Regardless, the tapes were all about how to deal with fear. He used the analogy of walking across a beam at great height–if this beam were on the ground none of us would have a problem walking over it, but when it is lifted up to a height of 100 meters, then just about everyone would be afraid. How can you focus on the beam and make it across at this height? How do you control your mind? Fortunately, I don’t think riding a motorcycle is quite this dangerous (although it is risky enough) but I think the concepts are analogous. Some fear is natural. I ran across some helpful “hypnosis” CD’s from “The Hyposis Network” which were quite helpful for another situation I dealt with. The Title of one was “Preparing for Uncertainty” by Eric Creenleaf and there is another title called “Managing Stress and Anxiety” by Randy Gilchrist–both are quiet helpful. The link is here: http://www.hypnosisnetwork.com/index.php In terms of managing your fear (your mind) I think both of these are fairly effective. This has been a very helpful discussion.
haakon59ParticipantI sat on the Boulevard M50 (and the S40, S50) and it’s a very nice bike. I love the styling of that one. I have also been to the Vespa dealership in Seattle and they are nice people. I was talking to them about a 150 but after looking around and doing some research I decided to go for 250cc or larger, so I could get the bigger wheels (better for potholes). Gas mileage is still reasonable at that level. But I have been increasingly thinking of just getting a motorcycle. If I start with the 250cc size, I should be OK and I can ride it for a couple of years. I am not a speed demon anyway. I just want a bike for basic transporation. Congratulations on your Boulevard by the way–that’s a nice bike. Thanks for the advice.
haakon59ParticipantMunch–sounds like we have slightly different learning styles: you like to get experience quickly whereas I like to talk about things and learn what to expect first, then get on a bike. This is what works for me and I usually wind up the better for it. While I am not anxious per se, I merely want to find out what I will encounter ahead of time. It’s just my style. But I thank you for pointing out that you were trying to tell me what you had experienced and what you learned from it. My first impression is that you were trying to analyze me psychologically based on a few short posts, instead of talking about motorcycles and riding. I shouldn’t have been so quick to judge. But I understand your intentions now and want to thank you for them.
I was also thinking of buying a bike first and then practicing ahead of the test to make sure I would pass the first time, but it looks like this is unnecessary. On the other hand, I have been to some dealers and tried out both scooters and motorcycles. What surprised me was how quickly the salespeople jumped to the 750cc size bikes and tried to sell me on them. I began to get the impression that perhaps this would be a decent way to start. But after reading some additional material both here and at some other sites, I see that I was actually correct to begin with. Now I am thinking I will buy a 250cc bike, maybe 500cc’s at the most–we’ll see how I feel after the course. Part of the reason I want to discuss things a bit ahead of time is because I want to run into contrary opinions so I can listen and judge them, eventually sorting it all out so that I can do what is right for me. In my case, since I have absolutely no experience and am over 40 years old, I am guessing I will be much better off learning to ride on a less powerful bike. I plan to take the safety course and buy the “safety” clothing, even though I am not sure how much the clothing helps you–maybe you can avoid road rash, which is good actually. But of course, I would like to avoid an accident to begin with. I have already settled on several of the decisions I needed to make just based (in part) on the above discussion, so I greatly appreciate everyone’s input.
haakon59ParticipantThanks. I was worried a bit after I read an account by a man who failed the first and second time. My reaction was: maybe this is harder than I thought! But it sounds like most people do pass. Congratulations on getting your first bike–what size are you buying? Best of luck by the way.
haakon59ParticipantI have learned to ask questions in order to generate discussion. So far, the above posts have been extremely helpful to me–I appreciate people being willing to share their experiences, whether they are mistakes or triumphs. In general, I like hearing from people who have taken the “common paths” and also, maybe even especially, from those who have taken “different” ones. The person who posted above they had purchased a 650 (if I remember correctly, sorry, I am not looking at their post at this moment) before they took their safety class was instructive. They were able to get to work and not crash, etc., even though they were surprised about how powerful their machine was. I like this and it tells me a lot about the experiences I will soon be having. I have been able to make quite a few decisions because of the feedback I am getting. For example, I have decided not to buy a bike first, but get through the safety school before I seriously shop. It looks like it will be likely I will make it through the class just fine. Although I still might buy a scooter, I am now probably going to buy a 250cc motorcycle instead. I ask questions and learn from others so that I can avoid their mistakes (if they made any) and calibrate my expectations. Isn’t this what discussion groups are for?
haakon59ParticipantThank you for your pointers. Gas mileage is going to be one of the considerations I will be looking for, so the move to a cycle/scooter for me is partly motivated by this. I had some experienced motorcycle salespeople pitch me a cruiser type motorcycle and they all seemed to settle on something in the 750cc’s range, bikes which are usually around 500 lbs or so, give or take. I sat on several of them and was surprised they were not as heavy as I thought they would be. Before I spoke to these guys, I was thinking of something in the 250cc range, whether it was a scooter or a motorcycle. So this startled me a little, I was thinking that perhaps I was being far too conservative. Now I have come to the conclusion that I was correct in the first place and the 250cc size will be just right for learning on and gaining some experience. While I am generally well coordinated, etc., and I am sure I will be able to handle bikes in the 750cc (or larger if that turns out to happen) range, which will be especially helpful for long distance rides, etc., at this point I have decided to take my learning process in stages. So I am going to start with 250cc and work on my riding skills. After this, I think I will probably get a 750cc bike because I want to buy something “big enough” but which also does give me decent mileage. Why am I asking about scooters versus motorcycles? Well, I am seeking to learn from the experiences of others; there is a famous saying “You can learn by wisdom or learn by woe.” I am guessing that learning by wisdom will be much cheaper. Thanks for your input, I appreciate it.
haakon59ParticipantI know where Ikea is, so I will be able to find it, I am sure. There is an “auto row” close by, so I suppose it might be there–regardless, I will look it up. They must have a lot of bikes there because they have so many brands. It sounds like a good place to shop.
At the moment I plan to take the class on the motorcycle, although they do offer a “scooter” optional class, I talked to them over the phone. I guess the class portion is done in downtown Seattle and the practical part is in Renton, I understand.
In terms of choosing between a bike and a scooter, I think I will take the advice of many here and just get through the class first. If I pass (hopefully this will be no problem) I will have to consider if I feel comfortable enough that with some extra practice I should buy a bike or if I should just get the scooter. If I go with the bike, I will stay with that and only ride on motorcycles until I am completely used to riding in traffic and have developed some skills. Thanks for your advice.
haakon59ParticipantThis is good to know because obviously at this point I am merely reading reviews since I have no personal experience, although I have sat on a few scooters and some motorcycles already at dealerships. But the experience of actually learning to ride will make a huge difference in my judgments, I am sure. Thanks.
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