March 2, 2011 at 2:00 am #4347CHamannParticipant
I’ve had all Winter to waffle back and forth between Bike A to B to C all the way to Z. I tangled with that idea of a GSX-R600, CBR600RR, R6, and other 4-cylinder i4s. I eventually, with the help of my crying wallet, brainwashed myself into a small 2-cylinder. However, youtube is full of either squids, practical reviews of small motorcycles, or talk about the cutting-edge tech on SS bikes. I haven’t been able to locate a video of exactly what I’m looking for: a “reasons to beware” video. I hear about dumping the clutch (done that on a bike myself), not matching gears while shifting, and tire speed/turning problems, but I’ve never seen how a smaller cc bike helps this.
So, what I’m looking for is a video that shows:
1. Throttle control vs. speed. Someone, hopefully seasoned, could show how a SS accelerates so quickly with a tiny bit of throttle. If they could lift/dyno the rear tire an roll on 1/8, 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 of a throttle to show how fast the rear tire spins, or to do that in 1st gear on a road to show RPM and MPH, I think it’d be helpful to see the comparison. I can read that you go 40mph in 1st, but personally I don’t comprehend things without actually experiencing it.
2. How newbie problems can cause trouble in a SS. What does grabbing too much break look like? Why is dumping the clutch so horrible on a SS vs. a 250? Other problems newbies aren’t expecting, like road conditions and the like, would also be helpful.
If someone could take time to make and post a video like this, I think it would be a great key in showing why a smaller bike is a better choice.
And PS, Spring is almost showing up.March 2, 2011 at 3:50 pm #29322madjak30Participant
The problem isn’t that you CAN’T start on a SS600 or bigger, it’s that it is easier/safer not to…
I don’t have a video, but I will try to explain why…
1. Throttle control is probably one of the biggest problems for a newbie…it doesn’t just come to most of us, it is a learned practice. In a panic situation, let’s say you are turning right (for those of us that drive on the right side of the road, otherwise left…) and start to pull out then notice a car barrelling down on you that you hadn’t seen, that is when throttle control becomes a problem…a newbie will become ham fisted and crank it to get out of the way…on a 250cc machine you will get accelleration and move accordingly, on an SS600 or better in 1st gear you will get a power wheelie, probably freak out, close the throttle and either wipeout or swerve all over the place…possibly be rear ended or run over…as a newbie you won’t be thinking “roll on throttle” you will be thinking “HOLY CRAP!! GOTTA GET OUTTA HERE!!”…
2. The problem with braking is in the slower speeds…parking lot or playground zone speeds…riding past a playground, a ball shoots out between cars across the road with a little kid in possible persuit…250cc machine has kinda wooden brakes and as a newbie again ham fisted four finger pull on the brakes…the bike comes to a quick stop and your heart is beating like you just ran a marathon…600cc SS bike has excellent responsive brakes and as a newbie ham fisted four finger pull on the brakes…the brakes grab immediately, the sport tires grab the pavement like glue…you end up doing a faceplant and sliding along the pavement with your 450lbs bike riding you like a surf board…
Would these things definitely happen, no, but they are quite probable as a newbie…we just aren’t expecting those types of reactions…plus on the SS bikes you would probably be going faster because the ride smooths out and isn’t so “twitchy” at higher speeds…
As for instructional videos…check out Captain Crash Idaho…he has some pretty good videos on YouTube…
It’s totally up to you what you buy, it’s just easier to gain experience and learn the skills on a less powerful bike…and the lighter the better…
Later.March 2, 2011 at 7:18 pm #29325TrialsRiderParticipant
…I would so love to get you on the back of my K bike. …not to scare you, just to enlighten.
Sounds like a tall order to find appropriate videos but i’ll give it a shot later, ANY size bike can get out of hand real fast, I have a friend that just started riding a Kawasaki 250 ( big tall strong guy ) within the first week riding he pulled an uncontrolled wheelie while entering the roadway from an inclined driveway, the bike was T-boned by an SUV. Fortunately he was no longer on-board at impact but the bike was creamed. …sorry no video:(
The big differences are once you get out of shape, a lighter bike is easier to regain control over. An extremely powerful bike can literally pull out of your hands and a ‘pipey’ bike ( one that has a narrow power band that comes on all at once somewhere in higher revs ) can loft the front wheel at very high speed. I once test rode a 70’s model, modified Yamaha RD350 that was mild mannered at normal road speed but if you twisted the throttle and waited for it to hit 5500 rpm, the thing would cat walk from about 40 mph. and it was even fitted with flat bars. It was not a pleasurable bike to ride, way too much like throwing the switch on a big bottle of Nitrous Oxide. Scared the crap out of me and at that time I had 8 years experience.
Almost time to start tapping the Maple treesMarch 3, 2011 at 6:04 am #29326eonParticipant
Not a perfect example but here is what grabbing too much front brake looks like.
Ok, it’s a slightly exaggerated example but many times when going round a corner you get startled and have to make corrections. That could mean applying the brakes or adjusting the throttle. It’s pretty simple math to figure out that a super sport reacts faster to smaller inputs than a Ninja 250 will. Similarly, the really fast bikes have really good brakes to slow them down. Brakes that are designed to stop you from 170mph have a lot of grabbing power. With a panicked or heavy hand they are going to lock up in a blink of an eye.
And if you really need to see how fast a sport bike can be, here is a drag race between BMW’s S1000RR and a 700hp Corvette (that’s 700 hp!!!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATV4Ltbk5Qc&feature=related#t=03m59sMarch 3, 2011 at 6:42 am #29328gitchy42Participant
Think the rider peed himself a little before the slide, then maybe the rest during and after. That was obviously a panic maneuver. There is a video of what happens when you apply a little too much throttle in a turn on a SS bike. I’m trying to find it, but not having much luck yet. Will post when I find it.March 3, 2011 at 6:54 am #29329gitchy42Participant
Found the video I was looking for, you can hear that he is playing with the throttle all the way through the corner, and gooses it just a little too much.
Actually, if you watch all of the crash vids just from The Snake (Mulholland Dr), you should get a good idea why a big bike can be too much to handle, even for an experienced rider.March 3, 2011 at 12:21 pm #29330TrialsRiderParticipant
when looking for these vids, how so many people think toe thong flip flops or low cut runners are suitable footwear for riding!
If this was a light bike with standard bars the slow speed stall & fall would never happen and notice how easy it was for the 2 guys to pick the 750gsxr back up. …not clear why the second thing a learner needs is, how to 180 on a side stand
Terrible vid quality but look how much quicker this guy is learning basics on a full scale 50cc dirt bike, also notice how much easier he recovers from a near stop and fall. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fs1yW9FEc2E
This squid actually looks like he’s ridden before, after all he’s doing a burnout right from the get go. Oh, oh he’s got both feet dragging, how do you operate the back brake like that? …never mind obviously it can’t be done. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLwCm3tEZOs foot dragging = 0 control
just listen to the power on this first time riders bike, …right before he hits the wall
March 4, 2011 at 12:09 am #29331Jeff in KentuckyParticipant
brand new bike, crashes within about 2 seconds after leaving the dealership- too much throttle and too much lean for that tiny turn causing a slow speed high-side- at least he had on the proper (and color matching fashion) gear. Also, the back tire was new and cold, with a lot less grip than normal:
I started with dirt bikes from 8 to 15 years old, so by the time I was 21 and decided to see if my 1978 650 Yamaha would really do 105 mph on pavement, it was a bit safer:
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