Scooters vs Motorcycles discussion
April 24, 2010 at 3:48 pm #3901Jeff in KentuckyParticipant
Some comments I found about how many riders are so hung up on status and brand and style:
If we really were just going for performance, we’d all be driving cars. A common V6 will easily beat many of the bikes on the road, unless you are on a Hayabusa or B-King, but there ain’t much of us on those kinda bikes.
Let’s face it, we ride for fun, so let’s not bitch about who rides for what reason. If you really want a performance machine, get a car. You’ll go fast, quiet, NO WIND, with traction, braking, and even air conditioning.
I love my HD for the way it sounds, looks, and rides. Remember we’re all in for the ride… we shouldn’t let one individual influence the perceptions of everyone. Stereotyping the HD group is as bad as HD riders stereotyping scooter riders.
I’m very capable of using a clutch, in fact I won a few enduro nationals in my younger days. I’m 40 years old now and ride a Kawasaki Versys as well as a Yamaha Morphous 250cc scooter and a Yamaha Majesty 400cc scooter. I also have a bunch of dual purpose and dirt bikes. Both scooters are a blast to ride, much more comfortable than the Versys or any one of my motorcycles and head and shoulders above all of them for around town and short commutes. I’ve owned four scooters within the last two years and when I’m heading out the door I find myself picking a scooter over my bikes, more and more. Automatics make much more sense for the majority of people in the majority of situations is confirmed by the fact that over 96 percent of passenger vehicles sold in the US are automatics. I have a 2004 Honda S2000 (manual) and a 2006 Honda Ridgeline (automatic) I don’t own and drive the Ridgeline because I am incapable of using a clutch. I own and drive the Ridgeline because it’s more comfortable not to have to shift and makes more sense in the vast majority of situations. I own and ride the scooters for the same reason. There is not a biker who has ridden my scooters who has not returned with a huge grin on his face. Take one for a ride and get over your childish perspective.
My latest new purchase was a Kawasaki Versys that was purchased for $2500 LESS than the Yamaha TMAX. I suppose the TMAX has bigger under-seat storage, but after that there is not one other thing that makes it worth owning. My ride is a half inch taller, 100 lbs less and gets better mileage. It is faster, stops quicker, looks better and can go up a mountain two up. And you know what else? On average I am claiming 50 mpg no matter how I ride it. Scooters? Only if you are completely incapable of using a clutch.
I look like a BMF, getting off anything I ride. Don’t need special clothes or a certain bike. Scooters are really practical. I had a Vespa for a while and it was great fun to ride around city streets. And when I got off it, guess what- I was still a BMF. The reason I would consider a scooter though is partially for good mileage. If it takes a Harley to make you look like a bad ass, guess what you ain’t no bad ass.
I live in the US and have two T-Max’s in the French Riviera. Agree if you are into a commercial lifestyle – buy Harley – and all the T-shirts, leather jackets with wings and flames. The rich and glamorous on the Riviera have one thing in common with the real mountain road enthusiasts of Provence: Yamaha T-Max!
I demo rode the TMAX and could not believe the performance of it. Truely inspires confidence and insane riding. As mentioned the seat is tall at 32.5 in. and the wind noise buffeting is serious bad, also storage underseat is lacking compared to Burgman, Silverwing, Majesty but same as Piaggio BV500. A week ago I bought a 08 Suzuki Burgman 400 and it’s almost as good as the TMAX. Lacks the same power output but makes up for it when I get 70-75mpg. The only thing is the feet forward position seems to hurt my lower back. Otherwise I would absolutely love it. Last bike was 02 BMW R1150RT, crap mileage but luxury ride and good in the twisties.
HD’ers think they’re are the only ones who ride a bike. Personally, I think HD’ers, on the whole, are some of the most suckered folks around. Pay twice as much for basically a pig of a ride, that is mis-timed to get a particular sound, and they get to pay huge sums of cash for that circus they call a “lifestyle”. I ride a Suzuki Burgman 650 now, tested a Yamaha T-Max when it first came out and was mightily impressed. Tore up the roads. The Majesty was a really fun ride, a little light for freeway only because of the wind buffeting, which the Burg handles magnificently. Add to that the cargo capacity and the economic fuel use and well, there really isn’t isn’t much left to talk about, is there now? I’ve ridden a lot of bikes, and the maxi-scoots are some of my favorites for all around riding enjoyment. I don’t do track, so won’t comment on that, and the sportbikes are for kids, and most of them riding today are incapable of riding it safely or to the extent the bike is capable. For a pure commuting bike, or for long distance travel, if you don’t want a massive tourer like a Gold Wing or a Victory Vision, the superScoots today offer the best of all worlds, fuel economy, comfort, cargo capacity, performance and longevity and quality.
Real men ride whatever they want and don’t care what other people think about it. Others dress up as pirates/convicts, plop their big butts on Harleys, and parade around trying to look tough.
I bet you wouldn’t drive an automatic cage if it was given to you! Not you. NO WAY. A real man would never do such a thing! Keep it real!
I have had 3 Yamaha Majestys, 1 Honda Silverwing and a Aprilia Scarabeo 500GT scooter. The Majesty’s were 400cc’s and the Silverwing was 632cc’s. They were fun, easy to ride, got good gas mileage and had great resale. I traveled all over the U.S. on those scooters.
The folks that bad mouth large scooters (and small ones too) just do not get it. The big scooters are nothing less than easier to access motorcycles. I have a friend who rides a Burgman. He does so because medical problems make it very painful for him to get his leg over the seat of a standard motorcycle. If it were not for the big scoot he would not be riding. He has no problem keeping up ( We ride responsibly, not all out like many [email protected] ) when we ride and enjoys himself. Is not the enjoyment what it is all about?
I also hear / see a bunch of complaining about the scoots not having tons of HP. With CVT transmissions they do not need tons of HP, plus they are not intended to be competition level race bikes.
Go take one for a ride and you will be surprised at how fun they can be and at normal sane riding paces you can completely forget you are on a scoot.
Milwaukee Mike says real men ride Harley’s. Well, I ride a Goldwing with a local club. We go on trips and we do have a few Harley’s in our group. The Harley riders know they have to ride at the back of our group. First they do not have enough horsepower to pass cars unless they get a long run at it and we do not want them holding up the whole group. 2nd is they are noisy and they stink. Harley’s burn oil and I don’t care what year or model, they all burn oil and nobody wants them in front of you. With a Harley in front of you after a while your clothes stink like oil. The Harley owners have put loud exhaust on there bikes so they have to ride in the back because nobody wants to listen to that terrible racket. I think they put the loud exhaust on to make up for the lack of horsepower. It makes them feel like they have some power. ALSO, we have 2 couples with scooters that ride with us. A Honda Silverwing and a Suzuki Burgman 650. Two of the Harley guys in our group said their softtails could beat the scooters. Well, they were very embarrassed when the scooters made horsemeat out of them. It was not even a close race. Every year the motorcycle manufacturers improve on their bikes except HD. It seems they just add more chrome or a new paint job. Harleys are overweight and very underpowered. One of our group spent over $4,000 on some kind of screaming eagle kit just to get a few more horsepower. He admitted he wasted his money. He has been trying to sell his Harley to get a Goldwing but there are just too many Harleys for sale and he can’t get anywhere near what he paid for it. He took my Goldwing for a 30 mile loop and came back amazed. He said he has been riding HD for so long he never really looked at anything else. I rode his 07 loaded dresser and could not believe what a terrible bike it was compared to my Goldwing. It had no power, a lot of engine heat and a lot of vibration. I just can’t imaging riding that bike all day. I could not even hear the radio over the engine noise. Of course HD sells these poor people on the HD Lifestyle which is a bunch of crap. They suckered them for that and bought all the HD stuff like decals all over the car windows, vests, pants, shirts, shoes, underwear, socks, and they even have HD clocks at home. HD should spend a little money improving their motorcycles instead of selling clothes and that kind of stuff.
I’m far from the most experienced riders out there, but I’ve had some experience. I’ve owned an R1, an R6, a YZF1000R, a VFR800, a CBR900RR, a GSX-R750, SV650, etc. Of all the bikes that I’ve owned, by far the most FUN bike to ride was a Yamaha Majesty scooter. Really about the only thing lacking from it was the power (and acceleration!) of a sportbike (but, in practical terms, there was just about always enough power to escape car traffic). Handling-wise, aside from an aluminum frame, it does have a more typical scooter-frame (no top triple-clamp, e.g.), so it doesn’t have the rigidity, stability, etc., of a sportbike (nor the lean angle), but, in terms of being flickable around town, it is just a fricking hoot. Riding the R6, the VFR, a Hurricane that I also had, I always used to think, “Man, this is a fun bike.” Well, riding the Majesty (and also to a slightly not-quite-as-much-fun-but-nevertheless-still-more-kickass-fun-than-any-sportbike-I’ve-ridden extent, the Aprilia Atlantic 500), I would always be thinking, “MAN, THIS IS A FUN BIKE!” I haven’t ridden a TMAX, but I would expect that it would be even more entertaining to ride than the Majesty. BTW, thanks, Gabe, for, besides the humor, pointing out things like the frame extending up to the top triple-clamp, the CF casting, the engine-as-stressed-member, etc. I didn’t know about these on the TMAX, and these are not attributes pointed out in any other previous reviews on the TMAX that I had read. The top triple-clamp, I didn’t think any scooter had that… Excellent. About the only (minor) downside that I can see for the TMAX (besides superbike power, but, at this point, that’s really just fantasy) is the relative paucity of room in its trunk (compared to, e.g., the Silverwing or the Burgman, or, it looks like, even to the Majesty), but this can easily be remedied with a huge gear bag and a couple of bungee straps. If you are so unsure of your masculinity or of your latent homosexual tendencies that you need to belch out your macho bravado at every opportunity, and belittle everyone else, as in your primitive little mind, their belittlement somehow raises your fragile little ego, then you’ve probably never even sat on one of these scooters. If you haven’t, you really have missed out. If you can’t have fun on one of these things (at least the Majesty, the Atlantic 500, and likely the TMAX — the Silverwing and the Burgman, in comparison, are nowhere near as fun), I strongly urge you to check in with your friendly cardiologist, or, probably more appropriately, your coroner.
I ride a TMAX. I’m not into any alternative lifestyle. Several family members have large Harleys and I’ve had a number of opportunities to ride with them. They ride very fast. I had no trouble at all keeping up. When we got to the twisties, they held me back and they wound up pulling over for me so that I could enjoy the curves. The claimed lean angle is 50 degrees. Most Harleys are 33 degrees at best (other than the XR1200). On top of all that, I’m averaging 54 MPG and my insurance with maximum liability coverage is less than $250/year.
To me, “splitting the difference” does not produce a sport bike for sure. A 489lb 40hp scooter with a “limited lean angle” definitely does not pass as sport. And it’s $8500. Really? That’s almost enough to buy a Street Triple (a comfy standard) brand new. Never mind what you could get used for $8500. A very comfy, more powerful ride. This, on the other hand, is part of a category that I usually brand as the least cool. At least Yamaha seems to be kind of trying to make it more sporty, but I’m not really convinced.
I know Harley owners who are gay, so I guess that makes them real men. None of the scooter owners I know are gay, so who has the “alternative lifestyle” now? I am intrigued by a quote in the review: “To determine scooter-iness, we have to find more than one of the following elements: a step-through design, an automatic transmission, an integrated drivetrain/swingarm unit and whether or not the rider looks like a big old fruit tooling around town.”
I only chose my ride to please you. As you know, two-wheeled drivers are pathetic fashionistas whose only concern is how they appear to others. Without the validation of appearance leaders, my life is now devoid of meaning. I’m glad that you’ve found acceptance in your peer group with your choice of two-wheeled transportation — peer acceptance is the most important thing, right? Nice to read a scooter review that isn’t distinctly apologetic. Is there any harm in enjoying the enhanced comfort and ease-of-use of a scooter? Certainly not. Good design and engineering come in many forms.
It is still a scooter. You can put lipstick on a pig, but it’s still a pig.
Scooters are for those riders that are proud of their “alternative lifestyles”. Real men ride motorcycles; preferably Harley Davidsons.April 25, 2010 at 3:11 pm #25958
How many articles were copy and pasted with this one? Or even if it is your own the thoughts and statement s seem to wonder both sides of the fence as if the author can’t seem to make up his/her mind up.
Scooters are definitely cool IMO especially the super scoots that are 500+cc’s. I think they are excellent option for those who want to ride and have medical limitations to what they can do to throw a leg over the saddle. Or even IF you didn’t have the coordination to clutch, shift, throttle. Everywhere and and everyone I ride with has a simple mentality. If you can keep up you can ride. No I didn’t miss yet another stone thrown at the HD’ers embedded in there but because I have already spent to much time on your other post not gonna bother here.April 26, 2010 at 4:27 am #25963eonParticipant
I’m thinking that was a copy/paste from another forum with a bunch of opinions on merits of scooters/motorcycles. If it was reasoned arguments I could agree it was a worthwhile post but I gave up when I started reading the infantile name calling.April 26, 2010 at 1:49 pm #25966IBA270Participant
the generally inflamatory and uneducated posts found on other DB’s OFF of this site? I fail to see how those opinions are of any help to readers of this board or serve the basic purpose of the board which is to help inform new riders on important topics.
Excuse my rather direct and unprofessional method of communicating my feelings on this, but this kind of shit stirring needs to stay off of this DB.April 28, 2010 at 2:38 am #26011gitchy42Participant
I’ll be honest, I didn’t read through all of the original post, got a little long for me.
For my part, I think that riding a scooter is a blast. Also, they definitely have their place among the two-wheel community. Most of them are simple to ride, get great gas mileage and have tons of storage. They are fairly popular here in the Portland area, especially among those that live ‘close in’ to downtown.
Fun side note: The other day, I was following my buddy back from lunch (me driving, him scooting), and there was a guy riding a BMW going the other way. He looked surprised, then hesitantly waved at my friend, like he wasn’t sure if he should acknowledge someone on a scooter.April 28, 2010 at 7:48 am #26018
LOL….. I been there . The first year I started riding I was kind of goofy on the whole wave thing. Now days…. if I see ya, you get the wave.
I have a couple of the super scoots near me. The 500cc models that easily do highway. To be honest it a wild thing to see someone riding them at 75+ mph. Just way to use to seeing them at 35-40 and confined to city streets. Heck there is even a gentleman near my job that has complete fun with it. One day you will see him in full blown stereotyped cruiser apparel…we’re talking chrome darth vader style helmet complete with a spike a the top, leather jacket with all kinds of patches on them and “bike boots” …oooh and even has the chain wallet. The next day….. the man will be pimpin’ the full on “power ranger” style sport bike look. It hilarious. He does it just for that reason to . He will tell ya if you take the time to ask. Says that he knows people stare at him, usually in disgust since he has to go slower then everyone so he goofs it up to lighten their mood. It works for the most part.April 28, 2010 at 11:15 am #26021TrialsRiderParticipant
I recently convinced a girl at work / new rider with some scooter experience, to buy a honda 125 CBR instead of a scooter, my logic being the taller wheels are a little safer and the price right now for the new cbr saved her several thousand dollars. Only yesterday she commented on some riders appearing to want to race her, and discovering a “pecking order” for waving to other motorcyclists. My suggestion was that it’s good to wave and acknowledge any other bikers, even scooters and ‘biker’, bikers… if they don’t respond, just assume they are too scared to let go of the handlebars and crash. I think she liked that and she’s really enjoying the new bike.April 28, 2010 at 4:26 pm #26028
Good point! Another thing could be as simple as them not seeing you wave.April 28, 2010 at 8:36 pm #26031owlieParticipant
Or too busy with the clutch….
Glad to hear she’s having a good time. I know it took me a couple weeks to work up the courage to remove my hand from the handle bars to wave. And it feels rude to not return a wave…April 30, 2010 at 2:41 am #26067gitchy42Participant
That guy has to be the coolest scooter-dude ever! lolMay 11, 2010 at 11:35 am #26344nickm189Participant
I did kinda get lost on the post and it felt choppy I see wree you get copy and paste. I’d like to say that I used to ride a little 50cc scooter and always thought they were under powered and what “tree huggers” rode a guy in my MSF course has a 500cc I heard about it and looked it up leme tell you there’s a reason to buy one of these
+pros still riding not driving! still get the open road! get decent mpg! the new ones look pretty cool and are comfy! Work great for people that can’t get on a motorcycle for medical reasons.
-Cons- still handles like a scooter as my instrustor pointed out today that you can’t use the clutch on these when needing to feather the clutch out. you can’t do some of the same menuavers that are able to do on a motorcycle and going over objects is not the easiest task!
I’m sure I’m forgetting a few things. Bigger scooters arn’t to bad for a thing
Only thing I’m debating on is 100cc scooter vs older 100cc xl 100 dt 100 not sure if the scooter would be less realistic and mpg are close……
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