- This topic has 8 replies, 4 voices, and was last updated 14 years, 8 months ago by eon.
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August 4, 2009 at 8:22 pm #3233eonParticipant
This is a couple of years old but still interesting. Found it on another forum where the rider was being criticized for not stopping in time. i’ve watched it a few times and it all seems to happen very quickly. But I guess you can stop quicker than a skidding car so perhaps her reactions were too slow.
August 4, 2009 at 9:19 pm #21217zeppelinfromledParticipantYeah, I’ve seen this video. She’s pretty out of it at first, but she gets oriented pretty quickly, so that’s good. I’m guessing that she didn’t have anything more than some bruises though. Could have been worse, but it’s still a reminder to always have an escape route, and that anything can happen, not just the things that you expect. In order to see that coming *at all* you have to be scanning way ahead.
Harder braking could have helped, even if there was still contact. A reminder to keep emergency braking fresh. A combination of braking and then swerving behind the gold car (braking and swerving separately, obviously) could have helped. Swerving left could have avoided it too, but it also could have made the wreck worse if it didn’t work (and we don’t know if there was a car directly to her left or not). It’s hard to tell how hard she was braking (she says in the video “I couldn’t stop” or something like that), so it’s possible that it was just too close for emergency braking to stop her in time. Of course, any braking will make the impact less severe.
I can’t tell why the car’s brakes locked like that though (rather, why the driver braked so hard). I’m assuming he was looking down or just not paying attention, and then saw that the car in front of him wasn’t going as fast as it was before, and he hit the brakes as hard as he could. It doesn’t look like the white car in front of him slammed on their brakes or anything like that. He did have his cell phone in his hand when he got out of the car though. He says that he braked and swerved, but I wonder what caused it. Just inattention, I assume.
August 5, 2009 at 2:03 am #21229eternal05ParticipantLet me preface this with a disclaimer: I don’t suggest that I could have reacted any better, or that her handling of the situation suggests that she is a poor rider. I claim that her response to the threat ahead of her was very poor, WHETHER OR NOT IT IS REASONABLE TO EXPECT THE AVERAGE “SAFE” RIDER TO DO BETTER IN SIMILAR CIRCUMSTANCES.
Put as simply as possible, her reaction was not optimal at all. Especially when you’re traveling at that speed, the MOST OBVIOUS targets for your continued vigilance are the cars immediately encircling you: in front, behind, and adjacent to you, both slightly ahead and slightly behind. Especially when I’m moving past an adjacent car, I have to take extra precaution and be extra prepared to either brake rapidly or GTFO on the gas. It “looks” like it happened fast, but as she was coming up on that left-hand car she should have already been keeping tabs on it, waiting for it to unexpectedly lane change into her or do something erratic.
With two fingers on the brake in such anticipation, it should have been only a tiny fraction of a second before she was hard on the brakes. I count 3 seconds from beginning of skid to impact. If we throw away a WHOLE SECOND for reaction time, that still leaves her with 2 seconds. A competent track rider can lose about 22mph/sec of braking, and a competent street rider with a decent front brake can lose around 18mph/sec or so. That leaves her with a ton of options: slow to a stop combined with leftward drift(maybe not if there was a car on her ass), lane change right (not the best since the car was headed that way), lane change left (only bad if the skidding car circled around and went left again…the left lane was clear, which she should have known), or continue braking hard in order to minimize impact in the ensuing collision. If she didn’t change her trajectory at all, she should have been able to get down to about 0-10mph depending on her brakes and her riding skill, and the precise speed at which she was going.
Her response was the worst possible response: she failed to brake much (I see only mild slow-down) and clearly target fixated on the threat itself, moving towards the skidding car instead of away from it. In fact, I would disagree with Zep with respect to the fact that you don’t have to be scanning ahead at ALL to see that coming. If you freeze-frame the vid at the moment the car started skidding, there are only about 2 car lengths between her and her target (it’s hard to tell because of the fisheye lense, but use the gold Accord to the right as ruler). That was practically in front of her nose!
In the end, like I said, there might be little chance to be so clear-headed in that moment, but there were lots of things she could have done to either completely avoid or dramatically lessen the effect of that accident.
August 5, 2009 at 3:10 am #21235MunchParticipantI agree with you… the moment the car on the left started smoking the rear tire is the moment her oh shit radar should have grabbed the break. I ride in traffic like that every morning going to work and even though it’s almost a guarantee that theres gonna be a sudden stop from 80 mph to near 20mph in less then a moment you never know when. Every time I get boxed in from cages all around me I drop my following distance waayy back. Then I am constantly scanning everything around me. If the cage behind me is to close for my judgment I do one of two things to back them off… first flash the brakes 3 times to grab their attention… if that doesn’t work …I start to do a weave in my lane then they really get the idea and go wayyy back. Point is I have had close situations enough to know to keep my mind in the ride at all times and scan without a seconds loss.
August 5, 2009 at 4:07 am #21237eternal05ParticipantEvery single morning commute I come across at least one or two instances where I’d be dead if I wasn’t more alert. When I’m on the ball it’s no sweat. You see it coming so far off and you expect it so much that when it finally happens, you just calmly carry out your avoidance plan and that’s that. Cars randomly change lanes with no warning or blinker all the time. They slam on their brakes unexpectedly, cut you off, turn right from the left lane…they never run out of ideas. Not expecting it is just foolish.
It’s funny, but when I’m on a bike I have this weird temporary hatred for cars, this pessimistic outlook on everything, expecting the worst from everybody. Kinda like this (Rated NSFW on account of all the F#$%ing swearing):
Aww yeah, I bet you’re gonna try to rush past me in the right lane and then force your way in when it merges down to the left lane in 100 ft, yeah I bet you are cause you’re a dirty car, aren’t you, yeah you’re just a selfing punk and you’re gonna do…awww you did it! I KNEW IT! YOU COCKSUCKER I KNEW YOU WERE GON….err hi….didn’t see you there…
August 5, 2009 at 4:48 am #21243MunchParticipantYou really need to get Rodney Carrington’s “Morning Wood” CD. The whole things is hilarious and will have you in tears but a part in particular he talks about getting cut off in traffic…….man I gotta find it for y’all…look him up on youtube , you just might get to hear it.
August 5, 2009 at 6:20 pm #21264zeppelinfromledParticipantMy comment was meant to mean that you would have to be scanning way ahead to see that coming before the tires start to skid (you see the white car slowing down and the black car isn’t slowing down, so he might do something stupid). Once the car started skidding, you couldn’t miss it unless your eyes were closed.
August 5, 2009 at 6:28 pm #21266eternal05ParticipantThanks for clarifying that up!
August 5, 2009 at 6:51 pm #21271eonParticipantI’m impressed no-one mentioned the chica helping her out. If that had happened to me I would have thought I’d just died and gone to heaven
Watched the video again and freezed it at the point the car started to skid. At that point she is still well behind that car on her right. If she had been braking harder she should have been able to get in behind that since that was the direction she headed in. You can almost hear her thinking WTF and then failing to react quickly/decisively enough.
Not saying I would have done any better but watching videos like this helps keep me on my toes. If some situation starts to develop around me I might expect the worse having watched videos like this.
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