- This topic has 25 replies, 18 voices, and was last updated 13 years, 6 months ago by namvette68.
New Rider, New Bike, Scared Sh**less
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September 6, 2010 at 1:58 am #28498horsteParticipant
I just finished my first day riding my new 2006 Buell Blast. I already got my endorsement via my MSF course and this was my first day taking my bike out on real streets. I took it all around the Minneapolis-Saint Paul (MN) metro. Started out driving to my brother’s place via some 30 mph city streets. Then I traversed through a main street connecting the two cities up to a city street turn main highway to the upper north metro. That main highway goes from 30mph, to 50 mph, to 60 mph by the end of it. I had to head up this way to meet a friend at his house. My next destination forced me to jump onto the freeway (65 mph and 70 mph max freeway speeds). That was definitely not my original plan of attack, but I was left with few choices. When up to the next friend that forced me to get on the freeway. Made it there safe, ate dinner, watched the Twins game, and then headed back home. I had to get back onto said freeway, and then I got back off on the Main-Highway turned city street, back to the main street connecting Minneapolis and Saint Paul. Stopped by my girlfriends house on the return home.
Once I left my girlfriends house, I didn’t want to get on the freeway so I drove by the Saint Paul Capital and took the long way home. I usually don’t take the long way, so I ended up missing my turn. I went straight instead of turning left into a vacant parking lot. Doing a big circle to get back to the street, it was getting to be a little past dusk. Turned my back around in a big circle, and about three-forths of the way thru the turn, I hit a lot of gravel and my bike slid. I managed to stay on the bike, but I foolishly put my foot down on the pavement and nearly low-sided the bike. Throughout the entire day, that was my first “OH! SH!T” moments. Even when I stalled the bike at an intersection (three times, the dang friction zone is more of a friction spot on my Blast), I kept my composure.
I want to thank the commentors on this board for helping make this a good first day. There were a lot of tips and reminders that you have given that made the day just a wee bit safer – thank you.
September 6, 2010 at 11:24 pm #28502NoobacycleParticipantHey Katina……… I don’t think there is anyone here who hasn’t dropped their first bike. The funny thing is is that you’ll drop it when you least expect it. Like I did my Versys.
If you wan’t to stop being scared shitless, you just have to ride more. You’ve got to build that muscle memory. Ever notice that the first few minutes of riding are the worst? And after a half hour or so, when you relax, you enjoy it more and are more confident? Its all muscle memory. You just got to make it second nature.
I’m Jealous. You have a brand new Ninja 250. I wish I would have bought one instead of my Versys. Now that I have the R6s, I still wouldn’t mind having a Ninja 250 around. Kind of hard to come by and they hold their value well.
Cheers and happy riding.
September 20, 2010 at 6:58 pm #28529SenzoParticipantI also am a new rider this season in the new england area and put 2000k miles on my Ninja 650R before I lost her on an off ramp exiting interstate 95 in torrential rains. i road for 3 days straight in that crappy weather 1:30 hrs each way dodging oil slicks, cars, and riding through grooved wet construction roads. I read somewhere that you should use more break and no engine breaking when riding in the rain because you could lock up the wheels and low side. I decided to try it on the last day and did so just before entering my exit ramp. Since i couldnt feel the engine speed I came up short on being to high in the gears when i entered not delivering enough power to the rear wheel to lean the bike in to the turn. It just wanted to go straight and in an instinctive act I tried to recover by turning the front wheel to where I wanted to go which caused me to high side the bike. I had on full gear, the worst thing that happened was I got gutted by the right handle bar end when the left end hit the pavement and I caught it as I propelled forward bending it 90 degrees. I even put a crimp in it. Mind you I am 350 lbs. and all i got for that was a big bruise.
Lessons learned and with some humility the insurance company totalled my bike out. I did however get a last ride on it because I needed to get back on otherwise I would think to much and convince myself to not ride. Bent handle bar or not. ( Ok, I just road around the block but still )
I am currently looking for a new bike now and invested some serious cash in some custom fitted air mesh kevlar motoport gear. ( Worth every penny )
The most important thing here is that you learn from your mistakes and keep going.
At The Gear All The Time. Happy riding!
September 20, 2010 at 9:43 pm #28530plasticParticipantThanks for the story, Senzo – so, basically after your experience, and in general, did you use mainly brakes or engine breaking when in rain – bit confused on that and would like to know what is the best speed reducing technique you favor in wet / sliding surfaces.
Thanks!
September 20, 2010 at 11:40 pm #28531MunchParticipantIn my experience….stay in the current gear and reduce speed via backing off the throttle. If your having to brake hard….your not giving yourself the safety buffer needed to be riding in the rain. I have spent more then my share in thunderstorms and rain showers…. Leave more then plenty room and ride at a slower speed then normal and all should be well. In case of emergency…. well…. your muscles are gonna dictate what you do. But using both brakes will be your best bet with mild pressure to start and progressing from there.
September 21, 2010 at 1:09 am #28532TrialsRiderParticipantI too am a little confused by Senzo’s description, I’ve never experienced rear wheel lock-up through engine braking, unless you rear brake way too hard and stall the engine out ???
I have experienced some serious rear wheel ‘hop’ when engine braking on rough pavement surfaces, which is why BMW redesigned their shaft drive on newer bikes than mine, and for rear brake designs many bikes feature a ‘full floating’ rear brake control arm.
If “use more break and no engine breaking” implies applying the clutch to brake ? I definitely don’t do that! To me engine braking is vital to scrubbing speed off a fast bike, (or heavy truck) in a controlled manor, wet or dry.
Munch said it right, in the wet ride as normal, just check your speed and leave some extra space, same as in a 4 (or more) wheeler.
…would love to hear some of the experienced roadracer recommendations on this topic !
September 21, 2010 at 5:31 pm #28539SenzoParticipantWhat I meant by engine breaking is down shifting and then easing off of the clutch after down shifting. Naturally, if I wanted to a stop completely I would use no throttle after letting out of the clutch and braking. If only slowing down into a turn I re-apply throttle after slowing down sufficiently.
I use engine breaking in conjunction with front and rear braking when slowing down in general.
In this instance in the rain, I used only front and rear braking to slow down while down shifting and not letting out of the clutch until I was into the turn. Then I let out the clutch and gave it throttle once I was entering the turn. I quickly discovered I didnt have enough torque/centrifugal force to propel the bike through the turn or atleast into a lean and it just kept rolling forward towards the divider. My reactions were a bit slow given the amount of time I had to actually react and the short distance of the turn. I didnt use enough throttle for being in 4th gear in a 20 mph turn. Because of the rain maybe i was concerned I would skid out the rear wheel. I didnt think to or didn’t have enough time to down shift in the turn causing me to react the way I did. Instincts took over and they weren’t the correct instincts.
An accident is seldom one factor. Other factors such as riding fatigue, visibility, comfort, soaked gloves and boots all contributed to my making the error. Better gear and preparation for this type of riding would have helped.
Lessons learned as follows:
1. Get back on and try again.
2. No matter how well you think you can ride or how much you reduce your ladder of risk there is always a chance you will drop your bike or have your right of way violated.
3. You dont go out believing you will crash but should always believe that you can so gear up if your serious about riding.– Senzo
September 21, 2010 at 7:35 pm #28542TrialsRiderParticipantVery glad you were not discouraged to the point of giving up riding, as they say; if at first you don’t succeed…
I found myself riding in heavy rain twice so far today and your posting had me actually paying attention to what I do different when riding in the rain.
1) I put on my holey rain suit
2) I do tend to keep the bike more upright in the turns and shift my body weigh more than in the dry
But that’s the extent of my list !I would like to report that I ride slower, but I don’t. I don’t actually leave any additional space in front, because I never tailgate to start with. I ride the same line, avoiding the oily lane center just as I would in the dry. I am extremely alert of what other vehicles are doing around me, as usual. My braking technique was completely unchanged in the wet, and my gear selection unlike on the Trials bike was no different either. ( on the Trials bike I usually cog it up one more gear when it’s wet and slimy )
When gearing down to engine brake, I always give the engine a little ‘blip’ so that engine rev’s match my road speed on engaging the clutch. ( difficult action to put into words, but I trust you do something similar when downshifting )
I discovered that I do love to spin the back tire a lot more under straight line acceleration, just because it’s fun, if not dangerous, and that also seems to be the safest way to test out traction limits.
I came to the conclusion as long as I am warm and dry, I totally love riding in the rain !
…sure hope you get to experience the same thing soon.BTW: BMW’s are great bikes in the rain and the newer one’s than mine come with ABS, check em’ out. I passed a lot of motorcycles today and I know I was the only rider with a big smile on my face
September 22, 2010 at 1:22 am #28544madjak30ParticipantI am new to street bikes this year as well, so take my advice with a grain of salt…anyway, I treat rain the same way I treat riding on packed gravel or dirt…just be a little more smooth with the inputs…really that’s about it…just try not to have abrupt inputs…no late braking and smoother on the throttle, as for cornering I am still a little timid when wet, but I think that is an experience thing.
Anyway, glad to hear you weren’t really hurt…getting away with a bruise is pretty good…
I guess this thread has wandered a little, but really it is the same…just get back on and keep trying…
Practice, practice, practice…and if you are still not sure…practice some more.
Later.
October 2, 2010 at 12:21 pm #28594eternal05ParticipantJust realized my subject line is probably unclear: I AGREE with Trials Rider and disagree with whatever source told you to hammer downshifts to slow down, especially in the rain. This is BBM, not “expert riders forum,” so don’t take this as an attack, but rather a very worried plea for you to rethink your riding.
So let’s think about this. There are basically three ways to slow your bike down while going straight:
1) Front brake: slows the front wheel only, provides the biggest proportion of available braking power, but can have some catch-22s when you don’t have a lot of grip (rain, gravel, etc.)
2) Rear brake: slows the rear wheel only, provides much less braking power, and is much easier to lock due to having less of the bike’s weight over the rear tire (and therefore a smaller tire contact patch) when you’re braking, but can have a stabilizing effect on low-traction surfaces.
3) Engine braking: This has the same effect as the rear brake because you are applying a slowing force to the rear wheel (through the transmission). However, it is much harder to finesse your rate of slowdown via the engine->transmission than with the rear brake.Keep in mind that both front and rear brakes on just about all modern bikes a) don’t exhibit debilitating brake fade, and b) are more than powerful enough to lock their corresponding wheel just about any time you want. If you have that much braking power on hand, why would you use your transmission to slow down instead, especially when you have more control with your rear brake lever? Doing this in the rain or on loose surfaces is an especially bad idea, as any sudden input can jolt your tire loose and cause a slide.
But when you go so far as to throw yourself down a gear and let out the clutch to slow the bike down, you’re not just using engine braking. You’re suddenly applying a large and hard-to-control amount of engine braking to the rear wheel. This is akin to grabbing a bunch of rear brake and should be avoided. On top of being useless from the point of view of bike control, it also puts a ton of wear on your clutch and strain on your transmission. This is something that you might have had to do with an old car or bike after the brakes faded away to nothing, but like I said, modern bikes have good brakes! Use them!
Like TrialsRider said, when you downshift, blip the throttle so that the engine speed climbs to match the new gear. If you do it well, you should barely notice a downshift, and the bike should stay settled.
October 6, 2010 at 5:26 am #28603namvette68ParticipantWe all were new riders…..ONCE! We almost all started out on an older bike, borrowed or what not……ONCE!
We all went to the dealers, and either made a wish list, or plopped down some hard earned money for a shiny new bike…..ONCE!
Katina, now it’s your turn. You went through the course, bought your own bike, and now you can navigate the roads of MA without a problem at all. Twelve hours is not a lot of experience, but you’ve gotten past the rough stuff. Now it’s time to have fun. I live in NY and ride to NH quite a bit. Maybe we could do a few miles someday? Anyway, have a great time and hope to see you out here soon. -
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