- This topic has 13 replies, 10 voices, and was last updated 14 years ago by Jeff in Kentucky.
New Rider advice NEEDED- UPDATE- Trigger pulled
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April 5, 2010 at 6:26 am #3841jackamnParticipant
Ok,
I’m 5’8, 25, new rider… have been driving a car with a clutch for many moons. I want a bike. I’m going to buy a new bike because i can and it is clearly safer than a used bike. I live in Canada and am seriously looking at the new HONDA 2010 CBF600SA which has ABS brakes.
it has
599cc
76hp
43 ft-lbs torqueQuestions:
1. Is this a good starter bike? ie. am i going to die soon if i get this machine?
2. i’m quite conservative… this seems to have similar HP and torque to the SV650 as advertised on this site as a good started bike… any thoughts on which bike really is better?UPDATE!!!
Ok, thanks for the advice… in the end i bought a 1979 XS650s Yamaha… 650cc and about 45 hp. its old but runs strong and the brakes and electronics work well… the tach is useless but speedometer works… it fits me and works and was cheaper than you could possibly imagine. wish me luck.
I am very mature and weight a good 230lbs so i’m thinking i’ll be ok. definatly gonna take it nice and easy… ive gone to the coffee shop twice now (around the corner) and plan to spend tonight in a parking lot doing some training… any advice on good excercises besides the ones in standard motorcycle training courses?
April 5, 2010 at 7:43 am #25423eternal05ParticipantThe CBF600 isn’t available in the US, so I can’t tell you I have any personal experience. On paper, however, it does look very comparble to the SV650. One big difference, however, is that the SV650 does have very different power delivery than the CBR600-derived CBF600 engine as a result of the SV being a V-twin (two cylinders, ~90 degrees apart) and the CBF being an inline 4 (four cylinders, all in line with each other…I know, shocking). PERSONALLY, I don’t really see one as being terribly worse than the other given equal horsepower and power delivery. For instance, here’s the SV650’s power curve (it’s the bright orange line):
Now here’s the Yamaha FZ6R (on paper, very comparable to the Honda CBF). It’s power curve is at the bottom of the left chart in navy blue (sorry about this huge image):
As you can see, they’re very similar. They’re both very linear and they both hit about the same peak power. Their torque delivery is a bit different, but that’s to be expected given the differences between engines.
So yes, if the SV650 is a good beginner bike, then yes, the Honda CBF600 is probably a good beginner bike as well.
The real question is “is a new SV650/CBF600 a good beginner bike?” The answer there is a definite “maybe.” First, I would stay away because, despite being reasonable for beginners, they’re still not ideal. You have NO idea how fast and heavy those bikes are: faster to 60 than any production Porsche (yes, even the $400K+ Carrera GT). A few milliseconds too much throttle and you’re planted into a canyon wall. The second, perhaps more important issue is that these are really nice bikes to mess up. You can get lucky, but it seems like the resounding majority of folks crashed, or at the very least dropped, their first bike one or more times. I’d hate to think of a nice shiny sportbike getting torn up, though at the very least, the CBF600SA isn’t faired.
If you insist on buying new, I’d suggest buying a cheaper bike (go go Ninja 250R). Otherwise, I’d suggest buying a really cheap ($2-3K) SV650/CBF600 and not having to worry about banging it up.
April 5, 2010 at 8:01 am #25427Gary856Participant1. A good starter bike is a used 250 or 500.
2. Neither the CBF600SA or the SV650, especially a new one, is a good starter bike. They’re great second bikes.
3. The inline-4 CBF and the v-twin SV will have different “characters”. To use car analogies, an inline-4 bike may feel like a high revving turbo, while a v-twin may feel like a lower revving V8. Which one feels better is a matter of personal preference.
April 5, 2010 at 6:05 pm #25432briderdtParticipantI actually rode my SV to work before I took the MSF class on a little 250 Nighthawk. And when I got back on my SV after the class, it was a rude awakening to this newbie at just how much of a disadvantage I was, how over my head I was, with that SV. I think if I weren’t paying that bike off still (at the time), I probably would have traded it in on a Ninja 250.
And yes, I’ve laid it down. Once. And I was extremely fortunate in that it was a no-speed easy set-down. Resulted in zero damage to the bike. I was LUCKY. And at only 19 months of riding, I don’t consider myself out of the woods for a drop either. I ran it off the road once when I thought I was too hot in a corner and saw gravel. Fortunately there was a shoulder to run off onto.
So… Similar bike to the SV for a beginner? I’d say maybe. Depends a lot on you. I’ve survived (so far). Would I do it again knowing what I know now? Probably not.
April 5, 2010 at 8:33 pm #25433ranetteParticipantWith a mid sized bike it really does depend on how you approach it. Certainly there are some things you can get away with on a 250 that will punish you on a 650, however, if you approach it in a mature manner-respect for the machine without fearing the machine-it can certainly be feasible to start on something similar to an SV. I started on a larger twin and if I had to do it all over again would not change a thing.
April 7, 2010 at 4:38 pm #25500jackamnParticipantUPDATE!!!
Ok, thanks for the advice… in the end i bought a 1979 XS650s Yamaha… 650cc and about 45 hp. its old but runs strong and the brakes and electronics work well… the tach is useless but speedometer works… it fits me and works and was cheaper than you could possibly imagine. wish me luck.
I am very mature and weight a good 230lbs so i’m thinking i’ll be ok. definatly gonna take it nice and easy… ive gone to the coffee shop twice now (around the corner) and plan to spend tonight in a parking lot doing some training… any advice on good excercises besides the ones in standard motorcycle training courses?
April 7, 2010 at 5:26 pm #25502mhlParticipantI’ve found exercises from “Ride like a pro 5” video training quite useful, as they gave me more confidence in low-speed maneuvers, and you have to start thinking and looking in the right direction before you’re able to do them right. Then there’s “Riding in the zone” book that has some drills on various topics, including more advanced stuff like clutchless shifting, etc.
I’ve also heard good review about the new book “Maximum Control: Mastering Your Heavyweight Bike”, but haven’t checked it out yet myself. And, of course, Hough’s books (“Proficient Motorcycling” and “Street Strategies”) are great as a general “motorcycling theory course”.
I’m still very much a newbie myself, and we don’t have any MSF-like courses here where I live – so after an initial crash course from my friends I’m learning it on my own. If anyone else have any great learning materials to share – I’ll be very grateful.
April 7, 2010 at 5:33 pm #25503JackTradeParticipantThat seems odd…I thought MSF covered the country. Edit: or are you not in the U.S.?
April 7, 2010 at 5:49 pm #25505mhlParticipantI’m not in the US, but half across the world in Cyprus. We have some guys from the UK hosting a moto school (they’re retired moto police instructors or smth like that), but they’re in another city and everyone’s expected to turn in on their own on their own bikes. So until I’m up for a task of intercity commute, I’m doing my drills here using everything I can find.
April 7, 2010 at 6:41 pm #25508eonParticipantI visited there many years ago as tourist. Apart from the military planes buzzing the hotel I had a great time. I seem to remember some great roads up in the mountains. Maybe not the largest place to go riding though.
April 7, 2010 at 6:42 pm #25509JackTradeParticipantYou may have already seen it, but on the U.S. motorcycle safety foundation website, there’s a section that has some drills (pretty much the sort of thing we get here in the U.S. in their Basic Rider Course) that might be useful.
Here’s a link…the actual drills at toward the back:
April 8, 2010 at 5:37 am #25535jackamnParticipantso what do y’all think of my final choice for a first bike? the Yamaha 1979 xs650s
April 8, 2010 at 2:12 pm #25539TrialsRiderParticipantRode a couple of XS650’s, back in the day ( both owned by good friends ). One stock and brand new, the other older and somewhat modified. As I recall the engine was near bulletproof, although the stock electrics and carbs were problematic. ( carry spare spark plugs ) The handling was ‘marginal’ in stock form, the modified one had; upgraded swing arm bushings, taper roller steering head bearings and Koni aftermarket rear shocks. The modified bike handled better than the brand new stock one. The older bike also had significant engine mods that allowed it to out perform the stock bike, but both vibrated enough to blur your vision.
We all had motocross experience at the time, so I can’t speak towards learning on the bike, but I will say; at that time, it was the forth biggest bike I had ridden, smaller only to the Honda 750 Four, and Kawasaki 750 Triple and Kawasaki 900.
I would recommend the modifications to improve the stock handling characteristics, but , if the bike runs good enough as is, save your money on engine modifications.April 8, 2010 at 11:38 pm #25567Jeff in KentuckyParticipantI had a 1978 Yamaha XS-650 for 5 years. Things get blurry at 105 mph, but you get very used to the vibration at 65 mph.
If your battery stops charging, it most likely needs either a new battery or new alternator brushes or both.
I never broke down- mine had a custom 2 into 1 exhaust and the stock air filter- I’m thinking it ran a little lean for cleaner running and better gas mileage, but more heat coming up off the engine at stop lights. I recommend the NGK or Denso brand iridium spark plugs because they last longer and the engine starts quicker. There are a lot of custom parts still available to improve the engine and the suspension.
An air cooled engine might last a lot longer with a synthetic motorcycle oil such as Amsoil. My 1988 design clutch plates do not like pure Amsoil, so I use 1 quart of 10w-40 Amsoil and the rest Rotella 5w-40 Synthetic for both diesel and gas engines- it also improves the shifting smoothness compared to regular oil, and costs less than all Amsoil.
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