- This topic has 11 replies, 7 voices, and was last updated 15 years, 8 months ago by BoOZe P-ti Motard.
Help needed with full-lock turns
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August 24, 2008 at 7:46 am #1963BanditryParticipant
A few days ago i started practicing full-lock 360 turns with the advised method of keeping the clutch in the friction zone, controlling speed with the rear break and keeping the motor revving about twice idle speed. However, every time the bike starts to fall to the inside and I try to recover by letting out the clutch more, it stalls. I realize there’s a knack involved here that just requires more practice to acquire, but nonetheless I’d appreciate any tips. I suspect I’m just letting out the clutch too quickly. I’m wondering though whether I should also be blipping the throttle too when I let out the clutch? The bike is a Bandit 1200.
August 24, 2008 at 8:26 am #11062TheAbomb12ParticipantSlow down the clutch…. add just a bit of throttle– but just enough to keep it going.
Practice driving as SLOW as you can in a straight line, using the clutch and throttle- then add in turning once you got the hang of it. If you still have problems turning, you might want to practice balancing on a bicycle by going as slow as you can and counterbalancing to turn. Counter balancing on a bike is very similar to a motorcycle (except for the whole weight thing).
oh… I might be wrong but… DON’T control your speed with the rear brake while turning… I’m pretty sure that’s a good way to drop the bike…
Use your throttle to control speed— but use very GRADUAL twists of the throttle. Sudden throttle changes, or braking causes instability while turning, increasing your chances of laying down the bike.
August 24, 2008 at 10:33 am #11064BanditryParticipantI think you’re right about practicing in a straight line first. That way I can master the pick up action of the bike without risking a drop.
August 24, 2008 at 2:04 pm #11066MattParticipantDon’t just work on your clutch, work on your body positioning. At a full lock turn your should be able to have the bike almost perfectly upright with practice). Move your shoulders laterally in the direction of the turn, using your outside knee to hook yourself to the bike. If you feel like your shoulders are totally outside the bike and you’re only hanging on by one cheek, you’re probably only half as far leaned over as you think.
This moves your centre of gravity over enough to let the bike stay upright through the U-turn.
I was taught ( and it works for me ) to control your speed with a combination of clutch and rear brake (like you are doing) with more emphasis on subtle clutch control than rear brake usage. The rear brake isn’t going to make you fall at these speeds unless you stomp on it. The front brake however is an absolute no-no, keep your hand well away from the lever.
Keep your throttle constant, no need to blip, no need to roll on or off, that is what the clutch is for. But try using more revs. On the 250 (so WAY less torque than your beast) I keep at about 5000rpm (power band starts about 7000). I’m guessing on the Bandit that 3-4k would be about right.The instructors emphasized that the engine should be making noise in low speed maneuvers. Low speed high control of a motorcycle is not a silent art. As you get better you’ll naturally start using less revs.
Hope this helps.
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“The two seconds between ‘Oh S**!’ and the crash isn’t a lot of practice time.”August 24, 2008 at 4:10 pm #11077BanditryParticipantNever thought about shifting my weight. If the bike is upright or at least leaned to a lesser degree than now, it will defintely give me more time to react if it stalls. (The Bandit is a pretty top-heavy bike, so when it stalls when leaned over, it’s almost certainly going down.)
I’ll keep working on that “subtle” clutch action and raise the revs even more.
Many thanks
August 26, 2008 at 2:06 am #11175ilnamParticipantI don’t know much, but I was taught to either use counterweight for tight turns or full rear brake and steady throttle. I sucked at the latter, but perhaps that’s because that wasn’t the best advice. I’ll have to try the constant throttle and clutch combo (with some rear break).
August 28, 2008 at 11:19 am #11308BanditryParticipantThanks for that. Great points.
Rereading what I wrote above, “controlling speed with the rear brake” is not what I meant, but rather slowing down the bike with a dab of rear brake and, as you pointed out, imparting some stability to the bike at the same time. I’m not exactly sure how it works either. Maybe it has to do with inertia of the moving parts of the engine.
Since you have a Sporty, weight-wise, we’re in the same league (El Bandito weighs 505 lbs dry). I still have some anxiety about leaning it waaay over at slow speeds, which is why I’m practicing this. Well, not this week anyway. Non-stop rain here everyday since Saturday.August 28, 2008 at 4:37 pm #11321BoOZe P-ti MotardParticipanti said why doesn’t i try the full lock turns since i know U turns.. i tried..failed since the bike was more likely to fall into the turn but i used counter balance and still, not much improvement… i then figured why not start from the beginning? i mean i searched for a large space and just went in circles. when i was +/- confident, i started to tighten the turns, of course this means decrease in speed and then i saw i was rather improving… i also found that the rear brake does help but we only need to lil braking, as we say, feather the brakes… i does not stop the bike but rather cut off extra throttle response… and my turns were rather ok, i think so.. then i tried the full lock turns and what i was doing more was feather the brake, give the power in, but which was controlled by the clutch… the engine was revving twice or so the idle, but controlled by the clutch and i concluded (for me) that playing with the clutch and… counterbalance are the key! the bike i was riding on was my friends 125cc haojue… still… next week i’m planning to take my pall’s cbx 250…
BoOZe
Solomolo RiderAugust 28, 2008 at 8:49 pm #11342AndrewParticipantI did some circles last night and found it really helped with my slow turning and getting confidence with the bike lean at a slower speed. Parking lot isn’t flat so I was having to use more rear brake when going downhill and less when going up. I kept the clutch and the throttle in the same place but just used the rear brake to make those small speed adjustments. I did also notice how the right hand turn is harder for me. I found that covering the front brake allowed me to get a more controlled grip on the throttle so I wasn’t changing the throttle position by putting weight on it.
August 28, 2008 at 9:35 pm #11346megaspazParticipantIt’s harder to do right handed full lock turns on a sports bike. The reason being that the arm gets locked against the tank making it hard to open the throttle. It was suggested to me by a couple of experienced sports bike riders to not fully lock the bars to the right on right handed turns. This means you’ll have to use more bike lean and more counter balancing. Or if you still want to lock the handle bars, you’ll need to adjust your throttle position higher so you can open it up. But that’s just for sports bikes with the usual low sports bike handle bar position.
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If there’s anything more important than my ego
around, I want it caught and shot now…August 28, 2008 at 9:38 pm #11347AndrewParticipantI’m covering the front brake just to get my hand in a good stable position. I’m not planning on using it during a low speed turn. For me it allowed smoother control because my dominant fingers are not on the grip any more.
August 28, 2008 at 9:40 pm #11348BoOZe P-ti MotardParticipantspaz’z right, he stole the words from my mouth, he’s right…. most of the times… XDD
BoOZe
Solomolo Rider -
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