- This topic has 16 replies, 7 voices, and was last updated 14 years, 6 months ago by owlie.
Hello – another wannabe biker
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October 21, 2009 at 10:37 am #3519ZoreParticipant
Hey everyone, I’m another person considering the possibility of starting to bike. Although there are some practical reasons for it (like we need another vehicle for commuting, and I thought this would be more fun/economical than another car), it’s mainly cuz I’ve been wanting to learn for about a year or two now.
So I’ve been looking around for a while, and from what I’ve read up on, either a Honda Rebel or a Kawasaki Ninja are my two best options for learning. I was considering the Hyosung GT250/125 but they seem too rare and consequently expensive.
I am seriously hoping to buy a used bike off someone for about $1,000… looking around this doesn’t seem impossible (although somewhat unlikely). However, I thought I’d run a quick budget by you guys since you have a lot more experience and maybe I can get some feedback.
Honda Rebel – $1,000
Protective Gear
Helmet – $100
Jacket – $100
Gloves – $25
Pants – $100
Knee – $25
Shoes – $60Total – $435
Liability Insurance (not health) – $100
Biking lesson – 250Installment price – $1,785
Does this seem realistic or am I lying to myself? I’m hoping to find most of this stuff used for cheaper price. But even if I actually managed to get all this, would it be enough? Is it quintessential to get a separate rain-set right away or is that more like luxury? I am a little unsure of where to begin, but hopefully you guys can help me out .
Any comments are appreciated.
P.S. if anyone know someone who wanna get rid of a cheap 250cc in the mid-Missouri area for mentioned price, hook me up
October 21, 2009 at 12:31 pm #22962eternal05ParticipantSince you live in Missouri, I hope that “biking lesson” refers to a MSF beginner’s course. That’s DEFINITELY the way to start out. Do that FIRST, before you buy anything else. Many people discover that they aren’t born to ride like they though, and others learn valuable information about what they want or don’t want in their first bike as a result of an albeit short exposure to riding.
Second, while you can definitely find some older used 250s in the $1K range, that will mean lots of miles, and since these tend to be beginner bikes, probably multiple beginner owners and thus multiple drops, abuse due to inexperience, etc. Now if this is just a first bike for you and you’re ok with that, fine. However, if you’re looking for a longer-term bike that continues to be economical, you probably want to stick to bikes made in the last five years or so (or with lower mileage). Definitely bring a mechanic with you when checking out used bikes in any case to make sure you’re not going to get ripped. Anyway, if you’re willing to pay a bit more, you’ll find some nicer bikes.
Alright, now for the fun stuff. Helmet. Ok, you don’t want to buy a used helmet. Why? A number of reasons. First, because a lot of times a helmet can be damaged and there is no visible way to tell. Helmets are one-time-use devices. If the foam gets compressed at all (i.e. if the dude, say, has his helmet filled with his gloves, a waterbottle, etc. and drops it on the floor), its protection level drops dramatically. The good news is, you can get new helmets very cheaply if you know where to look:
http://stores.sportbiketrackgear.com/Detail.bok?no=1431
This is Scorpion’s mid-tier helmet (they have other colors on close-out too) on close-out at STG. $108. Brand new. They also have the low-end helmet (the EXO-400) even cheaper, though if you’re willing to spend $100 on a helmet, I HIGHLY encourage you to bump up to the 700. They’re more comfortable and better ventilated.
Now to jump to the end of your list: shoes? No no my friend. You want boots. Tall-ass boots. Make sure you don’t skimp on your feet. I think that statistically they’re the most-injured body part, though the injuries are less severe. Still, who wants a broken ankle?
As far as gear prices go, I think all of your estimates are doable, though difficult. Things to keep in mind:
1) Do not buy crashed gear, no matter how sturdy the remaining material looks.
2) Inspect all the seams, everywhere, to make sure that none are slipping, damaged, etc.One thing right off the bat: your gear is all you have to replace the big ol’ steel chassis your car surrounded you with. Don’t skimp! Being frugal and being a cheapskate are two different things, and the latter can lead to your injury.
October 21, 2009 at 12:51 pm #22963stuParticipantmotorcycle-superstore.com is your friend for cheap gear! read the comments to take notes on sizing etc.
as noted, dont buy used helmets. this is your life your dealing with, not a hard boiled egg.
do you have a mechanic friend? whom you could take with you to inspect bikes. used 250’s in the 1k price range may come with a lot of problems, just make sure you know what your getting into. find out when it was last serviced, what bits may have been replaced, how much tread on the tyres, brakes, how long has it been sitting unridden? if the engine is cold, does it start first go?
October 21, 2009 at 5:35 pm #22967ZoreParticipantThanks guys, I appreciate the comments.
To clarify one thing, the reason I was going with such an old/cheap bike is that I’m leaving the country in 8 months and I will have to sell the bike then. Heading off to Europe for an indefinite amount of time but I want to learn here first in case I want to continue the whole thing.
Concerning the driving lesson — I have two options. I might have a very experienced biker that can help me (he has been driving bikes for over 35years) and then the option of doing the MSF. I know I should do the MSF but there is also the price range involved. He would probably do it for free whereas the MSF obviously wouldn’t. Plus their hours are something that my work just wouldn’t let me get away with. So we will see I guess.
But yeah, If I do buy a bike over craigslist or ebay I’ll definitely make sure I find someone to bring with me that knows more than I do… for all I know they could sell me a microwave and I’d be moderately confused at best.
October 21, 2009 at 7:30 pm #22970eonParticipantBuying a slightly more expensive bike might be easier to sell on in 8 months time and your overall loss might be the same, assuming you have the money to spend now.
Your budget for gear looks pretty tight. If it really is that tight I would go with the EXO-400 helmet. You might only be saving $20~$30 over the 700 but you are not compromising safety, only features (Disclaimer: I have the 400. One day I will have a Shoei to see what I’ve been missing). That SBTG website offers screaming deals on Scorpion gear. I paid $150 for my 400
Definitely buy the best boots you can. I started out on a pair of $100 “motorcycle” boots that were really just sturdy boots with some nominal ankle protection. I now have a $250 pair of Sidi’s and the difference is night and day.
Most pants have knee protection built in so that should be another $25 towards the boot fund
Rain gear is a luxury, unless you happen to be riding in rain! If you plan on commuting on this bike then you need to be prepared for whatever weather comes your way. If its just for fun then you can mostly avoid the rain. Also know that you get cold on a bike very quickly, especially if you are wet. Riding at even just 40mph gives you a significant windchill.
You should know that it is not recommended to take lessons from friends. There are all kinds of statistics to back up how much safer you will be after professional training. Thing is you don’t really know how safe your friend is or if he has the ability to explain things to a complete noob. After 35 years riding certain things may be 2nd nature to him makes it hard for him to teach. I’m not going to tell you to not do it but there is nothing stopping you from educating yourself. The MSF booklet is available for free online and David’s Hough Proficient Motorcycling is the best $20 you can spend.
October 21, 2009 at 8:37 pm #22971WeaponZeroParticipantHonda Rebel – $1,000 – Highly unlikely you’ll find a decent bike of any kind, even a Rebel, for this price. Personally I would wait until I could afford to spend double that otherwise you might be in the position my dad is with his $800 Kawasaki that spends more time in pieces on his carport than riding. For $3k however you can get yourself a nice bike worth holding onto. That’s how much I paid for my SV650.
Protective Gear
Helmet – $100 – Unless you plan on buying a discontinued HJC model on closeout, I’d double that. When it comes to safety gear, ESPECIALLY helmets, you should spend the absolute MOST you can afford to. A good budget helmet would be something along the lines of http://sportbiketrackgear2.homestead.com/exo700helmets.html or
http://stores.sportbiketrackgear.com/Categories.bok?category=SHARK+Helmets%3AS+650The shark is really nice, and I’d be willing to put money on it being the best helmet out there for that price.
Jacket – $100 – Stick the closeouts section at sites like Newenough.com, Sportbiketrackgear.com, Kneedraggers.com, and Motorcycle-superstore.com, and you will definitely be able to find a high quality textile jacket for that cost. For just a few dollars more, you can either get a full leather one. Here are two high quality leather jackets close to that price range:
They both seem to be very good jackets and way better than anything else you could get for the price. Personally I would get the Cortech but that’s just because I like the style better.
Gloves – $25 – You won’t find any full gauntlet gloves (the safest kind) for this price, even on closeout. Best you can hope for is a closeout sale on a “shorty” style glove. Here’s a more realistic expectation for a good sale price on a high quality glove:
http://www.newenough.com/closeouts/gloves/fieldsheer/attack_ii_motorcycle_gloves.html
Pants – $100 – As long as you’re not expecting to find leather pants for this price it’s a good price. The Icon ARC riding pants are within this price range and are very good quality. The Firstgear HT 2.0 Air Mesh Overpants are as well. You can also find good riding jeans within this price range, however you’ll want to supplement them with good underarmor.
Knee – $25 – If you’re referring to the underarmor I mentioned above, you can expect to double or even triple that figure. There’s only a few brands making it. Two examples of it are:
http://www.newenough.com/armor/elbow_shoulder_knee_worn_on_the_body/icon/field_armor_leg.html
I have the Icon ones. They’re high quality and protective but won’t fit someone with larger than average calves. Not sure about the other ones.
Shoes – $60 – There are basically two styles of riding boots/shoes. You have the kind that were designed to look and feel like normal street shoes/sneakers, which are usually more comfortable but don’t offer nearly as much protection, and then there are full on riding boots. You MIGHT be able to find the first kind on closeout for that price but you’ll be looking long and hard. The second kind, the really protective kind, no way. Here’s a more realistic price expectation:
I really like those. They probably give you the best of both worlds when it comes to riding shoes/boots. If you want one that emulates street shoes, however, then this right here is the cheapest you should expect to pay:
http://www.newenough.com/boots/sport_street_touring_boots/icon/super_duty_2_motorcycle_boots.html
I hope I haven’t burst your bubble, but this is what you should realistically expect.
Also, just an FYI
Scorpion, Joe Rocket, Speed & Strength, and Cortech are brands known for combining quality and low price. Sportbiketrackgear.com is ALWAYS offering sales on Scorpion brand gear making it even cheaper.
October 21, 2009 at 11:07 pm #22972ZoreParticipantFirst of all, a big thanks to all of you. Although it’s not exactly great news, at least I have a more realistic perspective on things.
Therefore:
Since this partially comes down to me needing a second vehicle to drive to work on certain days (whenever my GF works at the same time), I am sort of in a position of needing something rather soon. I am considering getting like a scooter or something, anything ranging from a puny 50cc to a 150cc (hopefully the latter). Now, what I need help with is the following: is it worth it?My thoughts: The bike would be much cheaper, I should be able to find a used one for under $1,000 and then be able to resell it again in 3 months for the same price (as long as I don’t buy it from a store, but actually from a private seller that just wants to get rid of it). Moreover, I get the feeling I wouldn’t need to invest quite as much in gear right of the bat. Maybe I’m wrong, but as long as I’ll be starting off driving top speeds of 40mph, maybe I don’t need quite as much. Moreover, I can also learn much better on a bike like that before I then step it up a notch to a heavier/more powerful bike.
So, my question then becomes — if I DO decide to start with a meager 150cc, what protective clothing am I looking at? Do I still need to invest $500 on protective gear or can I start with just a helmet, a pair of gloves and kneepads?
I don’t have a whole lot of friends that are into bikes so that’s why I need as much help as I can get from you guys… any tips or advice is greatly appreciated!Thank you!
October 22, 2009 at 12:19 am #22973owlieParticipantHello!
I have to second Etermal & Eon’s advice to take the MSF first. But you’ll do what you want to do there in the end.
Protective gear is for when you crash, not when you ride. Any get off at more than 10mph or so is going to shred tee-shirts, khakis, and skin, so even if you don’t get the whole kit and kaboodle, you should at least wear jeans and a denim or leather jacket whenever you are riding in addition to helmet, boots, and gloves.
Personally, I didn’t get a good jacket until I’d had my bike a couple of weeks, and I still haven’t found pants that I’m willing to try out…
October 22, 2009 at 12:26 am #22974eternal05ParticipantYou’re looking at all the same gear. It drives me nuts when I see scooter riders who don’t realize that.
Most really gnarly injuries, deaths, broken bones, etc. happen at intersections. Intersections happen at 25-40mph. Road rash at 40mph is also no joke. Gear doesn’t get cheaper on a scooter I’m afraid.
Also, to second what several people have said, learning from a friend is really dangerous if that friend does not know how to TEACH. Being a great rider and being able to explain to a complete newbie how to develop the most basic skills are two totally different things. Spend the money on the MSF course. They teach you more than just riding, and the lot is important, even if parts are tedious if you know them already. It’s the best money I’ve spent.
October 22, 2009 at 12:29 am #22975eonParticipantThe link that Eternal gave is for a EXO-700 helmet at $110 (one style only at that price). You can get certain EXO-400 lids from that site for $90 and I could argue that a 400 is safer than the 700 (that motorcyclist article from 2005 criticizing SNELL gave G-Force ratings on its tests and the 400 performed better than the 700).
October 22, 2009 at 12:34 am #22976eternal05ParticipantAs much as I’m an owner of two high-end Shoei helmets, it seems pretty well established by research that money spent on a helmet does not make it safer. What I pay for when I look at, say, an X-11, is not safety, but rather aerodynamic perfection, noise reduction, ventilation, and especially with Shoei and Arai helmets, comfort.
I do also own a Scorpion EXO-700 and a 400 (I got them from this STG clearance for the many friends that come riding with me on occasion). The difference between them is largely one of comfort and features (more/better vents, etc.), though some argue DOT-only-rated helmets are safer than Snell-rated helmets, though that’s a bit misleading. The truth is that, while Snell MAY be a garbage safety standard, being DOT-approved doesn’t actually involve any certification…it’s a mark of approval that companies purchase from the DOT. Therefore, while being Snell certified could be BAD if you buy these arguments, you have to be careful about thinking all DOT helmets provide the same protection.
October 22, 2009 at 12:47 am #22978eonParticipanteek! Surely not! When I went sliding down the road at 20mph a few weeks back 3 parts of me touched the ground.
1. My hands
2. My feet
3. My legs and butt.There were scuff marks on the palms of my gloves and the outside pinky.
Scuff marks on both boots around the toes, outside of foot and ankle.
There was a hole at one knee leading through to the armor and there were slight friction burn marks on the legs and the butt. I basically went sliding down the road feet first. I got up from that slide feeling no worse than if I fell off my kitchen chair. It wasn’t till I studied my gear I realized how much it protected me.ps. my pants were around $100 and protected me fine at that type of speed. They are the Tourmaster Flex pants.
October 22, 2009 at 2:34 am #22980ZoreParticipantDang, well, that makes sense I guess. Here is a question though that I have had and you guys can probably set it straight much easier than I, so here goes:
Concerning protective gear in for smaller trips. And we are talking like 10min bikerides like to the store and back — i.e. not highway or anything above 35mph.
The way that I look at it is that there are three types of accidents that are likely to happen. (and this could be completely wrong, this is just intuitively and from videos I’ve seen).
1) Someone else causes an accident and runs into you. This way you are basically screwed no matter what you’re wearing (not literally, but you will break bones no matter what), and really the main thing is just a helmet… the rest just ends up being scratches compared to the broken bones.
2) You mess up in a turn or something at 10mph. The damages aren’t negligible by any means, but they are not terrible. At worst you’ll get a small scar or a twisted ankle, but we are not talking a horrible skid burn.
3) You mess up at a higher speed and you skid along the pavement and here is really where the protective gear plays a huge part in protecting your ass. This is where you are in greatest need of protective gear…
As I said, I’m not a biker and have no personal experience… these are just what I see as the most likely ways of hurting yourself. Does this make sense? If so, the time when you REALLY need the gear the most is in the third case, which is when you drive somewhat faster. As long as you stick to downtown driving and shorter distances with lower speeds, you can manage with just a helmet, jacket, and gloves for a short while…
yes? no? kinda? absolutely not?
October 22, 2009 at 4:51 am #22981Bob HarleyParticipantWear All the Gear All the Time. Assuming that things that might go wrong will fit neatly into 3 scenarios is bargaining with yourself. Accept two things. 1) Motorcycles are inherently less safe than a car. 2) Only you can make responsible decisions for how you ride and what you wear. Denium offers little protection beyond 5 to 10 feet, I bought a pair of tourmaster quest with knee armor for $75. Shoes will be torn of your feet on impact leaving your toes exposed to asphalt (Yes, this happened to me many years ago while dirt biking). Wear boots! That jacket my not prevent you from having broken bones, but I’d rather have it on than off any day. An extra 1.3 mils of leather and should/elbow armor sound awfully nice even in the event of impact of any kind.
But lets look at this from another point of view.
Used road bicycle, touring style. $300 for a good one, plus $50 for a helmet and some gloves with the cut off fingers. Before you feel offended, think of the cardiovascular benefits.
Too far to bicycle? OK, when I was 20 and on a very tight budget I bought a used drivers ed car for $400. A trip to the mechanic to fix an oil leak cost me another $50 and that car lasted me another 2.5 years till I got a real job. You can find a used beater car for the same price you are planning for the rebel and you don’t need any gear at all.
There are always options. If you ask a question about safety or gear on a web site, folks are going to chime in and they do so because no one wants to see a rider down and hurt or worse.
October 22, 2009 at 5:07 am #22982ZoreParticipantYeah, I think you’re right. The reason I am bargaining with myself is because I’m not really sure what the bets are . But yeah, from what I’ve read so far everything has been pretty much confirmed. I will start saving up and hopefully I’ll be able to get a hold of good enough gear so that I can either get a 150cc scooter or a 250cc rebel soon enough
I really appreciate all the comments though, I don’t mean to sounds like I’m being dubious about the needs of protection, it’s just that I’d rather hear it first hand as opposed to just guessing my way through it.
Hopefully I’ll have something by Christmas, and I’ll be sure to post about it too
Thanks everyone
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