Graduated Engine Size?
May 5, 2009 at 4:17 pm #2782SafetyFirstParticipant
I’ve been doing some reading.
I guess in UK, they have a graduated system for motorcycle licenses.
You start with a 50cc bike when you’re young, move up to 125 and then 250, etc as I understand it.
Personally, I think a system like this would be ideal here, too.
The way things are now, in Ohio, anyone can go to the BMV, pay under $50, take a written test on motorcycle laws, get a temporary motorcycle endorsement and be on the road with a 1400cc bike if they wanted (just not on highways or at night.) How is that safe?
The main issue is people feeling their right to choose is being stomped on. But let’s remember, driving is a privilege, not a right. And that’s fine with me — I don’t want a habitual DUI driver blowing the red light while I’m going through on a green.
The second issue is where are these small bikes going to materialize from? The market in the US seems skewed to 600cc and up. Try finding an Aprilia RS-50 in the US. How about the Honda CBR125? Hard to find unless you import it from Canada. And the ironic part is, the hold up of someone importing one into the USA is having it emissions tested (A fuel-injected 125cc motorcycle with an O2 sensor needs emissions testing???)
What do you guys (and gals) think?May 6, 2009 at 1:01 am #18198
#1 Would not get my vote… graduated engine system…. nu uh… no go for me. First thing… Laws are only worth anything to those who follow them. The same idiot blowing that red light while inebriated will care as little about wether or not he has a license as he did when he got on there under the influence. Your only hindering law abiding citizens. These protect the stupid laws really need to stop. If they don’t pay attention before the law… they aren’t going to after wards either, more so they are more apt to go against it cause now it raises their “Rebel without a cause” syndrome.
Case in point: 8 yrs ago we had 4 high school kids hit an exit ramp at 100+ miles an hour… lost control of the car, hit the protection barrier and went over to fall 50 feet to a sudden end. They were coming back from a state championship game and the driver had been drinking. The speed limit was 65, which is more then safe due to the design and banking of the ramp. What was the states answer….. drop the speed limit on that ramp to 45 mph. Seriously!?…you think dropping that to 45 mph before hand really could have saved those kids….absolutely not!!!!! The driver was already 40+mph OVER the original speed limit. He did not care about the law….. see what I mean?
As far as motorcycles under the new emissions proposal. Well likely if they wanted to they can take the same avenue BMW. Mercedes and Chrysler (post Daimler buy out) did to get their cars here. Look around you. Whats the Urban Assault to econo box ratio like? Now days it’s evening out with fuel prices but 7 years ago you would find more jacked up minivans (SUV’s) then you would say a civic. Unless their was a “tuner” kid driving it. Smaller is definitely not a fashion sense in the states. Urban Sprawl has almost made driving a right as it is a right to survive.May 12, 2009 at 9:10 pm #18412Zig308Participant
We should bail out motorcycle manufacturers, then we can TELL them what to make…ahahahahahah
Nothing larger than 300cc to save the children and must have emissions checked to be green!
I sort of agree about Ohio though… my sis lives there and rode for about 6 months before she took the MSF. They don’t even seem to have temp licenses here in VA… you just take the MSF and get the license endorsement to take to the DMV. If you don’t pass MSF, good luck figuring out how to get a bike to the VA-DMV to take THEIR test on.May 14, 2009 at 4:28 pm #18509dextermorganParticipant
I don’t support this because someone would end up trying to take their 50cc bike on the interstate and get themselves killed.
Munch are you in NC? That ramp is about a mile away from my house, I always thought the reaction was ridiculous. If someone is going to speed, changing the speed limit isn’t going to stop them. Like many laws they only affect the ones who were following them to begin with.
Legislation is no substitute for intelligence.May 14, 2009 at 11:24 pm #18536
Yep, ride from Wendell to Cary everyday. If you see a Blue Vulcan 900 Classic LT running down 264 or 440… likely its me. I might be in my half helmet and likely got my full face on the “sissy bar”. What do ya ride so I know to give a wave.June 12, 2009 at 4:42 am #19610gsmurfetteParticipant
I go back and forth (bad I know). Half of me feels like yeah, it’s a personal choice, but the other half of me thinks, well more than likely, they’re going to take someone else down with them. So then it does become my problem. I think it should be A LOT easier to lose your license, you basically have to drive drunk (and get caught), or kill someone to lose it. It should be taken away before that point. Just me. I had a friend that had a DUI like 6 or 7 years before he tried to drive through Canada to get to the lower 48. They wouldn’t let him through. They told him that if you’ve had a DUI in the last 10 years, then you can’t drive though. He had to fly and his wife had to drive through without him. Seems like they take driving more seriously than the US. Germans have the license thing right if you ask me. JMO.June 12, 2009 at 5:06 am #19614zeppelinfromledParticipant
He couldn’t ride as a passenger?August 10, 2009 at 1:02 am #21422nok610Participant
My wife got her license in Germany and from what she told me, the training is 100x’s more vigorous than the MSF training. She couldn’t believe that after taking a 2 day course that I was automatically waived from taking the road test upon successfully completing the course. As a learner, she was exposed to several conditions under supervision such as riding on the range, in the rain, on the road during the day and night. They even exposed her to highway riding, especially on the Autobahn. The MSF definitely seems to be just an intro to riding and then the rest is left up to you. I would definitely have loved to take a course like Germany’s so all these things wouldn’t be a surprise to me after taking the MSF course when I hit the road. Of course, it’s more expensive to get your license in Germany, but at the same time you can’t put a price on your, or others, safety. I’m sure the cost would be a lot less than a visit to the Emergency Department.
I honestly thought there were some students who walked away from the MSF with a passing grade when they shouldn’t have which scares me a bit. Imagine all the riders out there that learned from friends and picked up their bad habits as well. Just on my drive home the other night, I saw guy pulling a standing wheelie, going downhill, doing what it looked to be 60+MPH on a 35. A 20 year a few towns over killed himself by hitting a guardrail while stuntin’.
Maybe a limit on a bike’s displacement wouldn’t be such a great idea cause I wouldn’t be happy riding on a 125cc knowing that I would have to jump on the highway to get to work. But at least provide us with a more thorough and robust course like the one my wife took back in Germany or at least make the MSF mandatory. It obviously won’t eliminate all of the risks but at least we would have a lot more smarter riders/drivers on the road.August 10, 2009 at 2:45 am #21429
“It obviously won’t eliminate all of the risks but at least we would have a lot more smarter riders/drivers on the road.”
In the words of Ron White:” You can’t fix stupid”
There are an over abundance of laws that can prove that time and time again.August 10, 2009 at 2:20 pm #21444nok610Participant
You’re right, you can’t fix stupid, but at least we could try minimizing the chances of people killing or hurting other people who are just out there trying to enjoy a nice day on their bike. The whole point of the MSF is create that foundation for new, even experienced, riders to learn useful safety tips that will benefit everyone. It doesn’t mean everyone will utilize the skills they learned from a safety course but at least it will sit in the back of one’s mind even when they do something idiotic. They’ll think twice about it, or maybe they won’t, maybe I’m just giving people way too much benefit of the doubt. I’m all about freedom of choice and I love the fact that I can go out and buy a bike without any restrictions, but what I don’t like is the “stupid” riders/drivers that mess it up for the rest of us. By the time anyone realizes that the rider/driver is “stupid”, it’s already too late cause they probably killed themselves or someone else. Laws would never, ever fix stupidity, but it could keep them out my way and everyone else’s.August 10, 2009 at 10:34 pm #21471
not at all. If that were the case we wouldn’t have murders, rapists, serial killers etc. As you quoted “stupid is as stupid does” or another phrase…. “Make something idiot proof, nature just makes a better idiot”.
Laws only do little more then restrict those who chose to recognize them. How many bikers you know go out without a license period. I have seen many. How many fishermen you know do so without a license…. again , many. Wishful thinking that so called restrictions would “keep them out of the way” is more a pipe dream.
Unfortunately nature has to takes it course and get rid of the stupids, no law is going to do that. In fact you want more idiots out there….. create said law and you will find more out there willing to break it just to have a cause for their rebellious natures.
Yes you are giving people to much benefit of the doubt….. by that reason alone if they were smart enough to get the training you wouldn’t really need the “laws” in the first place… so why would you then assume they would be smart enough to follow restrictions?August 10, 2009 at 11:35 pm #21475eonParticipant
I’m with nok610 on this one. I’m not convinced a graduated scheme would do a whole lot but I honestly believe a harder test would help a lot. Raising the bar on the skill levels needed to be legal has to help. And I would include cars in this. Raising the minimum standard ability of all road users would make us all a little bit safer.
If there is a large percentage of folks out there without a license today then that is a separate problem. Using that as a reason against tougher testing is arguing in circles IMO. If this is as big a problem as you make out (and I have no idea, I always assumed the folks I rode with had a license) then there are ways it could be tackled. Tougher fines, possible jail sentences, better ways of catching offenders. I know in GA I could not get tags for my car without proof of insurance and a valid drivers license. Seems like a simple but effective way to me.August 11, 2009 at 1:05 am #21477
“I know in GA I could not get tags for my car without proof of insurance and a valid drivers license. Seems like a simple but effective way to me.”
Works for keeping honest people honest for sure… and some that are borderline. How do you propose to tackle the “I borrowed it from a friend” ? Oh yea, and how many habitual DUI convicts do you hear about behind the wheel again?
Catching un licensed bikers is like the whole texting ban thing. Easy to make the law a bitch to enforce it. Usually ends up becoming a “add on” penalty for whatever you did to get pulled in the first place.
I don’t disagree with a more rigorous training program. However since Motorcycling is forever being referred to as a “sport” and not a means of transportation any idea of crap laws and rules are moot.
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