- This topic has 9 replies, 6 voices, and was last updated 14 years, 2 months ago by IBA270.
Good crash vids
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February 25, 2010 at 5:37 am #3723MadCowParticipant
http://www.youtube.com/user/rnickeymouse#p/u/1/JAPmQerb-b0
Not good in terms of entertainment value, but good in terms of education value.
I’m certainly no expert but it looks like the majority of the crashes happen for the same combination of reasons:
1. Hanging “in” to the bike instead of off of it
2. Leaning the bike too far over particularly given the dusty conditions
3. Entering the turn from the inside instead of the outside
4. Revving or braking during the turnMy thought after watching the vids was that these problems are all easier to correct by learning on a smaller bike like a Ninja 250. Specifically, that since the bike is smaller, weaker, and lighter; the 250 rider is less prone to relying on throttle to correct a bad lean… it’s easier to hit a proper line since you don’t have to worry about too much weight and speed pulling you out… etc.
Your guys’ thoughts?
February 25, 2010 at 6:22 am #24655eonParticipantMaybe the more experienced eyes can spot what he did wrong, I wouldn’t like to say. I did notice in the slow-mo after the fall I ton of dust getting kicked up. It also looked like another 180′ corner coming up so maybe he realized he needed to lean more to make the current corner. It looks like he leaned a little more immediately before the fall. Hard to say how fast he was going with the camera panning with him but it did look quick. Too quick obviously for the conditions and his skill.
I’ve seen a few of these types of vids recently from California. Apparently there are a few places where crashes are common and folks hang out with their cameras. Could be this is one of them and there is something about the road there that catches folks out. Not sure.
February 25, 2010 at 2:30 pm #24658eternal05ParticipantHere’s an example of losing the rear tire, rather than the front. This is your standard big sportbike error: too much gas too soon, with too much lean. You can hear the engine rev up as the rear tire slides out. A second before he crashes, you can also hear the rider cutting in and out of throttle jerkily. Especially leaned over like that, getting on and off the gas is a recipe for disaster.
Believe it or not, this guy’s really lucky he doesn’t have better reflexes. If he’d noticed the slide and quickly chopped the throttle, he might’ve highsided instead, which would have been mighty painful.
February 25, 2010 at 5:01 pm #24659IBA270ParticipantEspecially the slow mo playback…it appears that a 4ft. long black streak appears on the road just before the bike goes down. Clearly, the front end washed out, but I’m not sure why. Could debris, cold pavement, over-inflated tire, cold tires…could even be that he hooked up that new, fancy radial master cylinder and couldn’t figure out how to wire the lights!
Who knows? What this DOES prove is that this crap needs to be saved for the track. Notice the bicyclist spinning past as this poor bastard is reviewing the crash damage? Literally seconds later in crashing takes out the bicyclist, and then he’s got major issues.
I’m pretty sure that’s Angel’s Crest (I could be waaay off) and it’s a fun road! Just don’t ruin someone else’s day….and another thing…make sure you hit that kill switch as soon as you get to the bike! I’m not sure if it was dead or not, but make that your first priority if you’re walking after a crash. It only takes a few seconds to starve the bottom end of oil!
February 25, 2010 at 5:08 pm #24660IBA270ParticipantActually, that’s a GREAT set of training video’s…lot’s of crap NOT to do. In at least two, the rides target fixated and simply failed to make the turn. The dude in the yellow jacket decide he was going too fast, looked at the guardrail, locked the rear brake…and when right over. He’s so lucky he didn’t break his leg on the armco, it’s not even funny.
The dude on the black bike, coming from right to left on the screen, did the same thing; he stood the bike up and ran into the guardrail. Nice leathers…he looked good at least and was dressed for the crash, but clearly has no business on that road.
Mulholland is REALLY fun…at night
February 25, 2010 at 8:40 pm #24662JackTradeParticipantIf I tried to pick up my bike like he did (with his back, bending from the waist), I’d be in more pain than from the crash.
February 26, 2010 at 12:09 am #24657eternal05ParticipantIf you watch the slow-motion carefully, you can see that the rear tire maintains traction while the front of the bike slips out. In other words, he crashed because he lost grip on his front tire. I don’t see the brake lights going on, so I don’t think he braked. Similarly, though you can’t really tell from that angle, his body position didn’t seem horrible (not leaning much more than he needed to), I don’t really think he was leaning that hard.
Not too confident, but my vote’s on slick road surface (sand, oil, etc.) or bad tires. He went down REALLY fast without leaning much. If his tires were too new, too worn, or too cold, his lean angle might have been too great. All the same, it really looks to me like somebody hitting an oil slick or sand patch.
One thing you’ll notice is that he crashed on corner exit. Leading up to the crash, his engine was spinning down (listen to the engine sound), despite the fact that he was coming onto the straight. For whatever reason, this is wrong on his part. For one, by the time you hit corner apex (at the LATEST), you should be back on the gas. If you’re a conservative street rider (which I’d hope for), you’d be on the throttle again (slightly) immediately after turn-in. Getting on the gas helps stabilize the bike and move some weight back to the rear tire. In combination with standing the bike up more as he came onto the straight, this may have taken enough weight off the front tire and reduced lean angle enough that, even with a poor road surface, he may have kept the bike up.
February 26, 2010 at 12:11 am #24667eternal05Participant“What this DOES prove is that this crap needs to be saved for the track.”
Couldn’t agree more. The fact that there’s an entire YouTube channel almost entirely dedicated to dummies on sportsbikes crashing on Mulholland tells you something.
February 26, 2010 at 12:48 am #24663Gary856ParticipantThe guy in the first video looks pretty crossed-up – hip and knee out, but upper-body and head pretty centered to the bike. To me that’s the classic look of someone trying to go fast, but scared of committing to a corner – that makes it worse. (I know some well-know racers are infamous for riding crossed-up but that’s a different story from the much less experienced street riders.) Problems with the body crossed-up like that –
– Hard to see deep into the turn because the crossed-up body angles your head/eyes away from the turn.
– The wrong body angle makes counter-steering (pushing the inside bar) unnatural because the inside elbow is kind of jammed up, out of alignment between the body and the handlebar.
– A centered/high upper-body makes you need to lean the bike more at a given speed.When the eyes and body position are not right, everything goes downhill from there.
It didn’t look that fast from the way he slid (a short distance) – maybe a 35 mph crash? Gravel/debris/oil could have made it worse, but they’re generally not the primary factor. Hundreds of riders go thru the same road, only a few crash, so the problem is usually with the crashed riders, not the road.
February 26, 2010 at 1:37 am #24668IBA270ParticipantOh, absolutely Gary…it’s 100% rider error. You’re right on body position as well, and it’s VERY typical in new riders at the track…and even in some intermediate riders. Actually, my avatar shows ME a little more upright than I should be. Ah well…it was the best picture I had!
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