- This topic has 11 replies, 9 voices, and was last updated 14 years, 6 months ago by eternal05.
Fuel Injection v Carburetor
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November 12, 2009 at 5:39 am #3563TaraParticipant
So, I had a quick question for you knowledgeable folks
As you know, in my previous topic I talked about the Ninja 250.
I realized something yesterday. The Ninja 250 comes with a carburetor. Now, for someone like me, I probably would not be able to tell much of a difference between a fuel-injected bike and a carburetor-powered bike. But I’ve heard a lot of people with negative comments towards carburetors.
So are carburetors really that bad? If so, why?
Oh and one thing I’d like to mention: I also found out that internationally-selling Ninja 250s have fuel injection. That’s so lame!
Thankkkk youuu for helping me out so much!
November 12, 2009 at 6:12 am #23288MunchParticipantCarb’s…. can be temperamental with slight changes in atmosphere and need adjusting quite a bit. Also have a lot of different parts that can fail. Repairs are easily found and some find that it is needed quite often. If you upgrade your bike for performance you will need to by new/ larger jets (where the fuel is sprayed from) to compensate the new demand for fuel.
FI- Computer controlled, atmospheric conditions rarely effect it. The computer will pick up the changes and change the volume and pulse time of the fuel spray to compensate. Also if upgrades are needed a simple programmable and some times plug and play fuel management processor can be added.
Carb’s will at times need a warm up time to adjust itself to a good running status. FI needs none, again the computer compensates.
With that said some love Carbs as it’s easier to get more HP out of their bike without needing to learn where or how to “flash” the computer to allow for a broader set up. Where as with Carbs you can adjust the air/fuel mixture on site and get it going with ease. Your limitations will only be you skill/knowledge and jet size. BUT need to much fuel and you will need a better delivery system to get the fuel up there.November 12, 2009 at 4:24 pm #23292briderdtParticipant…was because of an irrational aversion to carbs. Both the Ninja 650R and the SV650(s) have FI, and me being the mechanic I am (meaning I’m fine with BICYCLES, but add an engine and I start getting hives), I wanted the simplicity. I I figured the bike would blow up on me or something.
Having ridden a Nighthawk 250 (carbs) in the MSF class, I got over it quickly.
So looking back, would I have gotten a different bike? Probably. But I’m dancing with the lady I brought. And my “next” bike might just be a Ninja 250 that I rat out or something (carbs be damned), since the Buell 1125r just got taken out of the picture.
November 12, 2009 at 4:42 pm #23293SantaCruzRiderParticipantMy Kawi has 4 carbs and I’ve had no issue – hives or otherwise.
My bike does take a couple of minutes to warm up on a cold morning (choke out), but I’m in the habit of starting it, then putting on my helmet and gloves, then she’s ready to ride.
I’ve heard elevation can also be an issue for some bikes. My daily commute starts at sea level and goes over an 1,800-foot pass, then back to sea level. It’s not enough change to have any effect. Not sure if you would be dealing with even that much.
I’ve never had an FI bike, so maybe I don’t know what I’m missing. That Ninja 250 is a very popular bike with a strong following. I wouldn’t be dissuaded by the fuel system — it’s works.
November 12, 2009 at 5:50 pm #23294AParticipantProperly tuned carburators would allow the engine to run just as fuel efficient as fuel injected engine, perhalps even more efficient.
The main drawback of caburated engine is when the ambient temperature is cold, or the engine has sat over a period of time without running the carburation requires significant different air/fule mixture when compared to an engine at operating temperature. Therefore a manual choke is required to start a cold caburated engine. Combine that with the poor fuel quality or lean jetted carb from the factory, starting a carbed engine after it has been sitting for a long time (few weeks or months) may be challenging.
Personally, I feel carburated bikes runs just as wsell as fuel injected bikes, they may take up more maintenance if the bike is not ridden very often. But if you keep running the bike every few days, keep the fuel in tank fresh, they can be just as reliable as fuel injected bike.
November 12, 2009 at 6:09 pm #23295eternal05ParticipantWhich is effectively “preference.” FI has many advantages over carbs from a performance standpoint (like Munch said, imperviousness to low ambient temp, changes in conditions, no warm-up time, more predictable fuel delivery, etc.), but the system is inherently more complicated.
One quick thing in case you didn’t know, since nobody’s said it before (I don’t think): carbs and FI are both different means of controlling the fuel/air mixture that enters the engine during each engine cycle. Carbs do it mechanically (i.e. using physical tricks, gas and pressure laws, vacuums, etc.) and modern electronic fuel injectors do it digitally (i.e. sensors detect the characteristics of the environment and a little gismo takes those readings along with the rider’s throttle input and measures out the appropriate amount of fuel, then squirts it into its corresponding engine cylinder).
As a 250R owner, I can tell you it’s not a problem, especially given that you live near Miami! The only time that you (as a beginner) are even going to notice you have carbs is when you live in an area that gets sub-45 degree winters and you have to use the choke a bit to get your bike moving in the morning.
Also, from the standpoint of a first bike, the Ninja 250R being carb’d is good from two standpoints: usually easier to fix if something goes wrong, and much easier to work on / tinker with if you’re into that kind of thing. I threw a jet kit on my Ninja just for a chance to take it apart and see how some things worked, and it was good fun. Can’t really do the same thing with an FI bike (everything’s digital, so all you’re doing is flashing ECUs and/or reconfiguring fuel mappings using a Power Commander). A jet kit is also an easy way to get big performance gains for under $100.
So now you’ve heard it 100 times: you’ll be fine with the 250R!
November 12, 2009 at 7:23 pm #23297WeaponZeroParticipantMy SV650 is carbureted and it only takes about 30 seconds to warm up with the choke on. No problems.
November 12, 2009 at 7:34 pm #23298WeaponZeroParticipantAlso, it’s not that carburetors are bad, just that they’re older technology. They are mechanical rather than electronic, so they have more moving parts that CAN go wrong and need maintenance. A carburetor rebuild is recommended every like 15k miles or something like that. Not sure of the exact number. But it’s really no big deal, and the advantages of EFI over carbs are definitely something you won’t notice in FL.
November 13, 2009 at 2:53 am #23303JtownJJAParticipantI just saw where Hyosung is adding Fuel Injection to it’s 2010 250 CC Models. I think it is a good strategic move for them. The GT250R does look great.
http://www.hyosungmotorsusa.com/new_product/introduction.asp?Cat=RoadSports&model=GT250R&year=2010
However, until they build their dealer network, and gain a reputation of quality, I doubt they will make a serious run against the Ninja 250. I know that you rarely see or hear of any Hyosung bikes around central Ohio.
November 13, 2009 at 4:52 pm #23308TaraParticipantI see. I had thought that carburetors are just an inferior form of an engine, judging by some people’s opinions.
But I see now the only real downside is a warm-up time. Which, like WeaponZero pointed out, shouldn’t be a problem where I live.
Thanks guys! You’re all a fountain of info!
November 13, 2009 at 8:55 pm #23312jcwhiteParticipantI’ve been pondering a similar thing as I daydream about upgrading. Granted that for those of you in florida the warm-up time is a non-issue, how about for those elsewhere? The weather here is 0-10 C most days (32-50 in old-fashioned temp), and I really like not having to warm up my CBR125. Anyone have a guess at how long someone’s carb-ed bike would want to warm up before a ride in those temps?
November 13, 2009 at 11:24 pm #23313eternal05ParticipantYou will find people are very split on this issue. Some insist that its bad for you to idle your bike for a long time to warm it up (my camp). Others insist that its bad to ride your bike at all before its fully warmed up. Not being an expert, and only able to evaluate the reasons people give for each argument, I’ve generally tried to avoid idling my bike for longer than about 30 seconds to a minute before getting on my way. This has consequences, however.
When it’s cold, you need to use some amount of choke to start up a carbureted bike. That means that for me to get going that quickly, I have to get moving with some choke still on, which some people don’t like. However, almost as soon as I get moving, I can safely turn the choke all the way off, AS LONG AS I can keep the bike moving for the next minute or so. As soon as the bike is moving and under load, it warms up VERY fast (much faster than at idle), so you’ll be ready to ride normally after a minute or so of riding around. During that moving warm-up, however, you need to keep engine revs down and throttle application low, so make sure you ride around the block a few times if your commute normally takes you onto fast roads right away.
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