[Munch]

“The argument is that the group is safer together fat chance) and can respond to an emergency should one arise”

This is in the idea of making yourself more visible. Meaning not a singal point on a larger road that gets obscured… or a non threatening object like an article someone here had pointed out stated. Not all groups, actually few that I know of, ride in parade formation at a constant. There are reasons there is a basic hand signal platform for any rider to know if they ride with groups. Most will recommend you keep a 2 to 3 second rule for either the bike immediately in front of you or stagger stepped to your side. 1 Bike can easily be overlooked, 3 on up is hard to miss.

“can respond to an emergency should one arise.”

Your assuming that all emergencies are of the medical type. If there should be one however would you rather someone 3 miles around the blind curve you just wiped on not be able to see you and call for any emergency assistance you may need , even IF they don’t know CPR….or take your chances bleeding out waiting for the next passer by to hopefully see you?

I don’t want to see any one riding in any circumstance they don’t like or feel comfortable in. It’s all in the risk management as you state yourself. However look through all possibilities before blasting certain things from a tunnel vision PoV. Granted that guy/gal may not be medicaly certified…but chances are (especially these days) they have a cell phone. You slide down an embankment and no one can see you but the rider in front or behind you at a closer clip ….. who’s your sudden best friend?
If you don’t feel comfortable in a parade type riding situation …say so… they blast you for it, separate and go about it your own way “Ride your own ride”.
However most groups I have ridden with give plenty of options for everyone in the group and take consensus of opinions on the pace, structure and destination before kick stand up. If not….. need to find you another ride captain.

[eon]

Thanks for the info on the IBA. I have to confess I don’t know a whole lot about it, just that some friends have done the 24 hour / 1000 mile thing. They were the ones talking about riding while tired and foggy. I also read reports on perhaps the initial one back in the day? Somewhere in NZ I think. Or maybe it was just the first one in NZ. They were talking about riding unfamiliar mountainous roads at night in bad weather while feeling this numbness (in the brain, not the butt!). While there were no deaths it seemed like playing Russian Roulette to me. I had no idea people were doing 10k miles in 11 days. That’s insane.

I heartily agree with preparation and experience making distance riding easier, whether you are doing 1000 or 500 miles a day. I’ve only done about 400 so far so I have a ways to go but I got all kinds of weather that day, from 90’+ temps to freezing rain in the mountains. Thankfully I had the proper gear and I enjoyed both extremes.

As far as the liability with training goes, I do not feel qualified to be giving advice to anyone so I’m not worried on a personal level, but I will mention your concerns to those who organized this in case there is another one.

[IBA270]

I know many, many people enjoy it and I think it’s great. It’s just not my style, and it certainly can be dangerous due to circumstances beyond the individual’s control. Off the top of my head, I can think of no less than 7 group riding incidents that I have a personal stake in. One is a fatality, and another was by a very close family friend that left him with debilitating injuries and eventually led to financial ruin. Two other incidents resulted in a serious injury to a rider’s wife, and yet another (and the last example) led to riders totally leaving the sport.

On emergencies…is there a type other than a medical? Well, ok…we’ve all had bbq that didn’t sit right…

My point simply is; there isn’t neccesarily safety in numbers, and many riders, especially new riders, get the impression that there is…

[eon]

Don’t mean to turn this into a pissing contest as to what type of riding style is ‘better’. Hopefully we can discuss this without it getting too heated.

I agree with you that more riders equals more visibility but for me that is offset by worrying about the guy behind me. Someone 1 second to my side is not enough room for me to very comfortable, especially if I don’t know what level their riding ability is. Would you like that woman in the hat 1 second behind you on the road? It would make me nervous.

Aside from safety it reduces my fun as even in the roads at the end of the video the group is riding in staggered formation. I would drop off a little and then catch them easily (and I am not a fast rider) as I used all of the lane in the corners. If I have to go round a corner as if following a rail then I am not having any fun. This problem is exaggerated by putting the slowest riders at the front (MSF recommend advice I believe) which means everyone goes at the speed of the slowest rider. It’s just not a style for me and my rides with this group will be less frequent during the summer months as the group size swells.

[IBA270]

You bet Eon! Look up the website and have a look around; http://www.ironbutt.com and http://www.ironbuttrally.com.

The rally came first as an 11 day event, and then morphed into the rally as it’s known today. Basically, it’s 1K/day for 11 days. A sizeable percentage attain what’s known as the 10/10ths on the rally, which is 10 consecutive 1000 miles days. FWIW, I traveled 12,463 over the 11 days in 2005. Yes, I was sore…and had funny things growing on my body at the end (yuk!). The rally is a scavenger hunt with the idea of getting the most number of points in the most efficient manner possible. Top riders will travel anywhere from 12K to 13.5K+.

The saddlesore award (1000/24 or 1500/36) is minimum requirement for entry into the IBA. Other awards include 100CCC (Coast to Coast to Coast in under 100 hours) 50CC (Coast to Coast), awards for number of National Parks visited, saddlesores within cities/states, etc….you name, there’s probably an award for it. Most importantly, and I’m sure it seems funny…is that it’s done safely. It’s hugely embarrasing to have an accident or to do something stupid in the quest for an award.

You may want to try sometime yourself! There’s plenty of people around that would be happy to help you plan and document your paperwork for you if it’s something you want to try!

[Munch]

Sorry …didn’t mean to make it sound like a pissing contest. Just a little to straight forward I guess. I understand to each their own as far as riding, and to that the freedom of decision if you ride with a particular group. Would I feel comfy with that woman in that hat beside me….. not judging from her slow crawl, at which point I tell them that I am gonna do something different then the group and maybe catch up with them on the other side.
I ride some what tight with people I know…. others I don’t …. well like you I drop back quite a bit until I can grasp what their skills are.
Didn’t mean to come off as an ass just merely wanting to point out that not all answers are one sided …. honestly I think it was something that IBA said. Eh…maybe a nerve got touched and I typed before realizing it. Oh well….no harm meant… just devils advocate (with apparent passion)

[Munch]

no not all emergencies are medical….. again not trying to come off strong…
2 situations I can think of that I know of with friends. 1 was with a friend following me on back roads. Now he doesn’t have the back road time that I do and I took lead… he stayed about 3 seconds behind me still staggered formation for, well, just in case. I was on the inside of the turn going left and he was on the outside. Not sure what really happened with him, wether itwas lack of attention or looking and going where he was looking… I saw in my mirror he was taking the turn…….looked up to finish the turn and as I was exiting it I looked back real quick in the mirror again to see him jump the ditch and very wobbly run into a horse pasture. Luckily he didn’t go downbut had he it would have been not so good, not necessarily medically but him being shook up about the event would have put him in a bad place to contnue on or if the bike would have fallen on him…not hard enough to break anything but hot pipes on gear will go through eventually…would have needed quick help to get the bike up.
The other was my uncle….pushed his luck on gas and as he was cresting a hill the fuel went away from the pick up and the bike petered out near the top. He had enough speed to carry him off the road and as soon as he put the kick stand down…….. down goes the bike…. the shoulder was very soft. Luckily there was a car not to far behind him…..maybe a 1/4 mile (it was a straight away) that witnessed what happened and was able to get the bike off him.
There is safety in numbers but too many numbers changes the game quickly into being bad. I agree with that. However I would hate to have a widespread group and arrive somewhere to find that amateur Jimmy was no where to be found and no one knew why.

[eon]

LOL…no worries. I could tell you were going to defend your corner vigerously. Just wanted to make sure I had not upset you with something I said. I tend to do that on occasion on other forums by mistake. Don’t want to do that here.

[IBA270]

Munch, I get it and I’m glad you dig doing that riding style. I have no issue with it, and I understand why it’s popular. My only point is that while it’s got it’s obvious advantages, it’s got it’s disadvantages as well…In all my years of riding, I can count the number of people I will ride with on one hand. I don’t consider myself better, not by any means, and I don’t consider them “less” of a rider. I DO wonder about their judgement (did they top off the tank? Do I have to wait for them to gas/piss/take pictures/bullshit?) or if they think like I do when it comes to accident avoidance and judgement. For me, group riding doesn’t work. As I feel like I have some responsbility, I grow tired of fixing poorly maintained bikes, helping people pick up dropped bikes, waiting in hospitals for crashed riders…I don’t dig that. Maybe I’ve just had bad experiences…

But please, don’t think I’m bashing it at all. I’m not. I only bash a very few things in motorcycling; Be prepared and wear your freakin’ gear…don’t be a dumbass statistic….get some training because your uncles’ brother in law’s ex-girl friend’s lover can’t ride for shit and sure as hell has no business teaching you, and don’t EVER f’n tell me you had to “lay ‘er down” to avoid an accident….that’s like Mohomed Atta saying he had to hit the building because he didn’t know how to land…passed that? It’s all good!!!

[Munch]

“”I only bash a very few things in motorcycling; Be prepared and wear your freakin’ gear…don’t be a dumbass statistic….get some training because your uncles’ brother in law’s ex-girl friend’s lover can’t ride for shit and sure as hell has no business teaching you, and don’t EVER f’n tell me you had to “lay ‘er down” to avoid an accident….that’s like Mohomed Atta saying he had to hit the building because he didn’t know how to land…passed that? It’s all good!!!””

+1 mill and then some. We definitely agree on that. And yes for most cruiser groups we do like to stop , take pictures, bullshit, bio breaks and other sum such. If all I wanted to do was ride from point A to B in a timely fashion I can do that on my own by myself…..like my commute to and from work. However with a group of like minded individuals…..and thats key…..it’s absolutely great to ride, stop and rest and BS for a little while to develop some memories and take pictures to share with the poor souls that didn’t get to go. Otherwise, it’s just a commute…. for me.

[Author]

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