- This topic has 8 replies, 5 voices, and was last updated 14 years, 4 months ago by XRayHound.
Counter Balancing…for fun… and REEEALLLY FUN…
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November 25, 2009 at 12:38 am #3586CaptCrashIdahoParticipant
Counter Balancing for the masses…
AND Counter Balancing for the SM HORDES!
ENJOY!
November 25, 2009 at 5:15 pm #23521eonParticipantAs ever, great video. Fun and entertaining. The 2nd one did make me wonder though about how much road temperatures affect your grip.
How much less grip will there be on a dry day in the 40’s versus one in the 60’s?
What about the same question on damp roads. Same difference?
If you ride for 20miles will your tires get hot enough to overcome the cold road?Sorry for all the questions but I don’t want to find out the answers the hard way!
November 25, 2009 at 9:07 pm #23530CaptCrashIdahoParticipantHere’s what I’m willing to say:
Road temp affects tire temp. A warm tire conforms to the road better, offering better grip. A cold tire doesn’t conform as readily offering less grip. On a cold day, getting a tire up to a high operating temp takes a long time and (potentially) the tire will NEVER reach operating temp. On a cold, rainy day, the tire is cooled by the water flowing off it (kinda like how a radiator works).
Best advice? If it’s cold–be aware your tires might not be at optium operating temperature.
One of the cool things about the SM vid is if you watch you can see the tire slip on paint and then hook back up on the unpainted asphalt. That means that even though it’s cold outside, the tire is cool and the ground is cool–THERE’S STILL TRACTION TO BE HAD! Cold tires + Cold surface DO NOT equal skating rink. BUT you do need to use your head.
November 26, 2009 at 12:35 am #23534MunchParticipantI tend to disagree…not completely. Tires at traveling speeds will definitely get operating temp warm. Couple of donuts around the parking lot not so much. The tire gets heated through both friction with the pavement and the constant flex and relaxation cycles it goes through. Granted it will take longer BUT it will heat up. How long it takes also depends on your compound in your tire, and the usage, not to mention the contact patch.
November 26, 2009 at 3:19 am #23540eternal05ParticipantI was told that most high-performance track tires won’t get up to operating temp (which tends to be higher the more grip the tire offers) even on hot days if they aren’t ridden hard enough. That’s why they’re not recommended to slower riders (read: me) despite theoretically having better grip at operating temp. Have I heard wrong?
November 26, 2009 at 3:54 am #23542CaptCrashIdahoParticipantThis is as touchy/personal area of scooters! One important issue is carcass temp–yep, the tire needs to be heated all the way through to give the best performance possible.
But here’s the rub: Honestly, on the road, even at spirited speeds–how often are you pushing the tire to it’s performance limit AND–really–should you be?
I’ve been around enough scoff-laws to know that a great deal of them almost never get the tire hot enough to get it behaving as a high performance tire should; with compound peeling off like rubber cement, the tire surface HOT to the touch. Does that mean that you shouldn’t be cognative of ‘are my tires up to operating temp’? Nope. A cold tire is an underperforming tire…or as we used to say in the day:
“Don’t try and pull a runner on cold tires.”
Likewise, if conditions are adverse (meaning cold or wet or worse, BOTH) then everything should be telling you SLOW down, don’t push it. Tire temp and tire condition should be one of those things saying: BE CAREFUL.
OH and on the idea of which high performance tire to buy? Again, that’s a personal issue–I’ve switched to a cheaper tire because I kill them quick enough I can’t afford 250 bucks a tire…for street/hooligan use. It’s a tough thing to see a Pilot Power or Diablo Rosso that’s never been leaned over or scrubbed up to that great satin/milk chocolate look that a tire at temperature gets. Kinda like seeing a great player on crutches.
I would rather see a good player worked hard than a great one on the bench. (And good players cost less than superstars!)
November 26, 2009 at 4:02 am #23544eonParticipantI watch a lot of Formula 1 and I know the tires they run on those cars bond chemically with the track. Not sure what sort of temperatures they run at but the cars are very sensitive to track temp (so much so that the tires are developed with each track in mind). Any sort of slow down (behind a safety car for example) and the grip falls off dramatically. Now those tires are designed to last something like 25 miles and you can see the rubber they leave behind. I would imagine high performace race tires for bikes would have similar benefits/problems.
Obviously a world of difference between them and everyday road tires designed to last 10,000 miles in all sorts of conditions and temperatures.
November 26, 2009 at 4:37 am #23545MunchParticipantSom performance tires are made with a “gummier” compound with less stiffeners which allows them heat up quicker then a standard tire. Of course you see most of the tires up close, like that of NASCAR, these tires have no tread pattern to allow for more patch for grip and heat build up. Weaving back and forth forces the tires to obtain more friction and flex and relax more to retain the heat. With that the rubber becomes unstable and can “melt” or lose it’s bonding properties and stay on the track.
I don’t have the fortune to watch bike races but I imagine much of the same idea applies. Though since there seems to be little they can do to heat the tires up at the beginning portions of the race I assume is why the use warmers while the bikes sit.
Granted when the track cools down with ambient temperatures the track “changes” as the tires are not gripping well or “cooling ” down. However if you watch and sometimes they show the track surface area temps are quite a bit warmer then a standard paved traveled area. It all goes hand in hand.December 14, 2009 at 1:54 am #23690XRayHoundParticipantI never had the thought of running race tires on the street anyway, but my first track day convinced me utterly: I had -never- gotten any tire to truly ball up on the street no matter how aggressively I was riding, and one session on VIR Patriot, a track I had never been on before and that I did not feel like I was being particularly fast on, absolutely shredded the sides into that beautiful cheese-grater’d look, and that was on a 50 degree morning. So yeah, even getting triple compound street tires up to a -real- temp on the street is something I don’t want to try.
As for the videos, I can’t believe I missed this guy, who is he? These are fun to watch.
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