- This topic has 13 replies, 6 voices, and was last updated 14 years, 10 months ago by ronkore.
Bizzare transmission issue
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June 11, 2009 at 8:21 am #2988ronkoreParticipant
About 1300 miles in on my 09 ninja 250 and this evening it developed a very weird problem when I was coasting down a hill. Bike was in neutral and all of a sudden, out of nowhere it lurched, and the rear tire locked. Thankfully I was able to recover and not highside or anything bad like that. I pulled off the side of the road to see what the hell happened.
The clutch lever was out and my foot didn’t push the shifter into gear.. it was in neutral as I said. I thought something had gotten stuck in the rear tire at first, but when I inspected it, it was fine. When putting the bike into either first or second gear, even with the clutch lever pulled all the way in I can’t move the bike by foot whereas before I could. The engine also can’t move it when I try to let the clutch out. I figured it was bad on the clutch if I tried to force it so I didn’t. When the bike’s in neutral, when I let out the clutch it acts like it’s in 5th or 6th gear. In fact, the engine even moves it.
So yea, there’s something really screwed up. I was stranded where I was, and AAA doesn’t tow bikes, so I had to ride it home like that (in that neutral/5th gear hyrbid thing). It didn’t feel like I was damaging the clutch or engine riding it like that and I took it slow, and I hope I didn’t do anything to make it worse, but as I said I was stranded where I was and had no other option.
Anyone ever heard of an issue like this? It sounds like something’s really screwed up inside the transmission or clutch. I’ve tried searching for any similar issue on google, nothing.. Gonna call the dealer tomorrow, this better be under warranty. Just not sure how the hell I’m gonna get the bike there. bleh.
June 11, 2009 at 10:17 am #19554MunchParticipantMake them tow it . 09..yea it’s under warranty. I am assuming though that you ahven’t gone tooo far break in and you had it professionally serviced if you are. That’s about the only sticking point they could have.
June 12, 2009 at 3:15 am #19591ronkoreParticipantDealer says it’s probably a fried clutch. Apparently Kawasaki doesn’t cover them under warranty because it’s a “wear item”. After going back and forth with em today, I got em to agree to pick the bike up but it probably won’t be until mon or tues. Guy who sold it to me said I’d have to fight with Kawi and try to make em cover the cost. Service guy was saying they might be able to do a goodwill warranty thing. Whole thing’s BS since there’s only 1300 miles on it and I haven’t done anything squid like that would burn the clutch out. I’m lucky the damn thing didn’t give out on the highway or I’d probably be roadkill the way that rear tire locked up.
And I was really lookin forward to some riding this weekend..
June 12, 2009 at 2:31 pm #19625WesParticipantMan, I feel so bad for you. I’d be soo pissed. There is no way I would let them get away without fixing it FOR FREE haha.
June 12, 2009 at 5:50 pm #19647zeppelinfromledParticipantI once bought a Honda certified used car, and the battery died 4 months later (not that it needed to be jumped, but the battery was dead – couldn’t be charged again). Although warranty doesn’t cover a battery, I went in with the argument that no proper battery dies in 4 months. I suspect that a similar argument could be used for the clutch. It would be tough to kill a clutch in 1300 miles.
June 13, 2009 at 2:38 am #19675MunchParticipant1300 miles is not enough to clutch. Even if they claim it as a wear and tear item even those have a warranty of sorts. Sounds like the dealership is being lazy and has nothing to do with Kawi. I talk a lot with the service manager at a local dealer….the one I bought both of my bikes from . Some of the things he has done some times twice because Kawi paid for it…even knowing it was rider neglect blows my mind. I would say try another dealer or shop that deals directly with Ma Kawi.
June 14, 2009 at 5:19 am #19704ronkoreParticipantWell, it’s not that they don’t want to deal with kawi, it’s that they’re almost positive kawi’s gonna deny the warranty claim for that reason, and that I’ll have to fight with em then to get them to cover it. They’re gonna have to deal with kawi in the beginning after they take the clutch apart and find out wtf happened.
As for the “hard to kill a clutch in 1300 miles” statement, I’d agree but that line of reasoning didn’t fly with the dealer or kawi.. they both said something to the effect that you can burn a brand new clutch out in 10 mins if you’re using it wrong. I don’t even know if it’s the clutch either, since my experience with clutches says when they’re burnt out, they slip like hell and you can’t get the car/bike to go anywhere. My clutch isn’t slipping at all in neutral, it just acts like I’m in sixth gear and I can get the bike to go as I said.
When the shit hit the fan, I was in neutral coasting, there was this loud CLICK that sounded like something gave way, and then my back tire locked, as I said. Is that a normal way for a clutch to burn out? I think maybe something shattered inside the gearbox or clutch assembly. I guess I’ll find out on mon or tues when they pick it up. Just took off my ZG windshield tonight and put the stock one back on, don’t want to give em any excuses to say I voided the warranty :p
June 14, 2009 at 2:20 pm #19705MunchParticipantMy suspicion would be the tranny also. If it was a clutch problem you would have been able to get it out and into any gear. A locked up back tire will be the result of two things…a seized brake or transmission issue. The clutch’s only purpose is to disengage the motors spinning from the transmission to allow you to hit the next gear. For instance found this for ya:
home » Articles » Motorcycle Transmission Basics 101Motorcycle Transmission Basics 101
The typical modern motorcycle gearbox or transmission is a “constant mesh” design. The name comes from the fact that all of the gears in the transmission are in constant engagement with one another. This differs from some older designs where the gears slide back and forth on shafts, engaging one another one pair at a time. The gears are arranged so that you have a drive gear, coupled to the engine, and a driven gear coupled to the rear wheel. They are arranged on shafts, the drive gear on the mainshaft and the driven gear on the countershaft. In most cases, the mainshaft is driven directly by the clutch, which in turn has one set of plates connected to the engine and the other set connected to the mainshaft. Most clutches are driven off the engine’s crankshaft by a gearset as well. They may use direct gears or a chain or belt drive. This is called the primary drive.
The countershaft drives the transmission’s output device, typically a U-joint in the case of shaft drive, or a countershaft sprocket if it’s chain or belt drive. This is called the secondary drive.
One of the gears in a pair of gearsets, will be coupled to its shaft, main or counter, at all times. The other gear in the pair will rotate or spin freely on its shaft on bearings. In between the free rotating gears and splined to the main or counter shaft, are the engagement dogs, or at least half of them. The other half is built into the face of the gears themselves. Each free-spinning gear is then coupled to its shaft by the engagement dog. The engagement dogs are typically one of a few designs, but all of them work basically the same way. The first use multiple fingers and corresponding holes, typically in the gear itself. Others have fingers built into the gear and the corresponding holes in the engagement dog. The Valkyrie’s transmission is built this way. Another type is a blade and slot design. There will be a pair of blades, looking much like common screwdriver tips, on the engagement dog and a set of corresponding slots in the gear. Usually there will be twice as many holes or slots as there are fingers or blades. This is done to aid engagement speed as the dogs and gearsets only have to turn half as far to engage. Older Gold Wing transmissions use the blade and slot arrangement for example. They can be slower shifting than the finger type engagement dogs, but provide a bit more torque handling capability for a given size dog and gearset.
To move the engagement dogs back and forth along the countershaft, they have a slot cut perpendicular to the shaft into which a shift fork fits. In turn, the shift forks are moved by the shift drum that is rotated by a selector mechanism, typically a ramp and pawl design. The shift drum is designed to select only one gear pair and engagement dog at a time. Because of the different ratios, if two or more gear pairs are selected at the same time, the transmission will be locked and unable to turn.
Now here’s a hint for you troubleshooter types: If your engine runs OK but stalls out when you start to engage the clutch, and the bike won’t roll freely, you’ve just found your problem. Your transmission is locked and probably engaging more than one gear pair at a time.
reference: http://www.wootbike.com/articles.php?article_id=3&page=1
June 18, 2009 at 3:34 am #19880gsmurfetteParticipantThat is some good gouge! Can we start a maintenance section? With a search if possible, it would make troubleshooting your own bike a bit easier…..
June 18, 2009 at 4:16 am #19881MunchParticipantI would like to see that to. I am an automotive mechanic but motorcycles are a different beast. I am learning things constantly myself. It would be cool to have a section for the community to post their problems, get feed back then do a personal follow up on what the correction was.
June 18, 2009 at 5:57 am #19886ronkoreParticipantDealer finally got out here today to pick my ninja up. The guy who was loading it onto the trailer remarked it’s definitely not the clutch, but probably what Munch said. This makes sense, since it seems somehow sixth gear is engaged in neutral now and when I try to shift into first or second, it’s not moving because in those cases both sixth and first/second are engaged. He remarked it’s most likely something with the engagement dogs or shift forks, and if this were the case it should be covered under warranty. Of course the guy isn’t in the service dept so I’ll wait to see what their verdict is on it tomorrow.
I’m gonna be joining AMA since they have 5 free tows a year (within 35 miles). I find it annoying that AAA/state farm both seem to think all motorcyclists have instant access to an extra pickup truck in case somethin goes wrong with their bike. (aka they don’t cover motorcycles in their roadside assistance) If I’d had the coverage I coulda had it towed last weds instead of waiting a week and fighting with the dealer to drive the 30 miles to my place and pick it up.
Hopefully I’m back up and runnin by the weekend if all goes well. Luckily the metro train runs close to my place and the dealer so I can just take that over to get the bike when it’s done.
June 19, 2009 at 2:22 am #19932SantaCruzRiderParticipantTell them you’re in no rush to get the bike back, so long as Kawi is OK with holding off getting your monthly payment until the bike is back in your garage.
How about a loaner?
I’d be sure you were top of mind with these guys. Let them know you set aside LOTS of time to ride these next few weeks and every moment you’re not riding you’ll be writing about the casual service you’re getting from the dealership.
Sorry to hear about the treatment you’re getting. It’s not cool and not professional at all. Seriously, this is one of the reasons why I never feel put off buying used – at least I know the warranty sucks
Good luck!
June 19, 2009 at 6:26 am #19934ronkoreParticipantHeh, I put most of it on my credit card and the rest a downpayment. Though I’m gonna talk to the sales guy again tomorrow, and convince em to make this a priority..
Obviously I should’ve gone with a different dealer, given this service. There was another place closer that was gonna give me the same price but the guy in my MSF course insisted these guys were cool, and my internet research into them beforehand didn’t raise any red flags. Live and learn eh
I was originally going to go used, but the prices for used 08+ ninjas here are around MSRP for 09’s.. pretty screwed up.
June 26, 2009 at 9:00 am #20244ronkoreParticipantToday I got a call from the dealer, they were able to fix the problem, turned out to be a simple thing. They said the “neutral detent” was sticking and the clutch was stuck. They freed up the gears and ran it, worked fine. Picked up the bike and it seems to be working fine. Had a long talk with them about my concerns regarding this happening again, they said it was a “freak occurrence” and shouldn’t happen again. They also recommended against coasting in neutral, because the oil bath isn’t able to splash on all the gears/clutch when it’s not in gear.
Rode the 30 miles home without any problem, hopefully this is the end of it. Didn’t have to pay anything, it was completely under warranty.. only bad part of this was the 3 week downtime and crappy service.
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