- This topic has 13 replies, 6 voices, and was last updated 14 years, 7 months ago by Dagger.
Bike size question
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October 14, 2009 at 3:38 am #3507kaiParticipant
All advice points to using a small, light low powered bike for a first bike (generalizing here). My first bike was just that small, very light and some of the smallest 450cc’s of high geared power you could ask for (it would take ice, not water to cause a rear wheel slip).
I found this bike dangerous in my hands. Never did I feel confident or safe on it. And shortly thereafter got rid of it and never rode again. Now just before selling it I rode a friends 900 or 1000 kawasaki, an old police model I think. I felt safe and confident on this thing. Could take rediculously tight corners with it at slow speed and had ample accelleration. Would have pursued buying a bigger bike at the time if funds had allowed.
Now I ask: Are there exeptions to this small bike rule? I have worked out that my first ride had too tall a center of gravity and was underpowered. Is there a beginner’s bike that has a low center of gravity and enough low end torque to not be dangerous in traffic?
Kai
October 14, 2009 at 4:08 am #22836Bob HarleyParticipantI’m new to biking myself, so I’ll avoid recommending a specific bike, but I have found that motorcycles are as different as the people who ride them. In my MSF I rode a 200cc dirt bike, suzuki, and I found the center of gravity high and the gearing torquey. With the high CG and the low gears, 1st to 2nd done too fast would lift the front wheel momentarily which left me very unnerved and deeply concerned about riding anything over 500cc’s. Now i am riding a suzuki S40, a single cylinder 650, and I don’t think I could lift the front wheel if I tried. Yet it is much faster than the MSF bike. Also the S40 has a CG so low that I can duck walk it just about anywhere effortlessly. Actually I would like something in between these two examples, but that’s just me and that fact that each time I ride I gain experience and I’m not the same rider as I was the day before.
If you read into the past web posts you might find someone has already asked your question. I’m curious what your first bike was?
October 14, 2009 at 4:28 am #22840eternal05ParticipantSounds like you’re just not a motard fan (am I right that that’s what you were riding?). Honestly, it’s a lot like me saying I don’t like big-bore bikes because cruisers are to heavy. That sort of bike can do crazy things:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeUK6aOEJKo
These guys are power wheelie-ing everwhere, and they’re not riding 1000cc superbikes. Like you said, gearing is low, grip is high, and center of gravity is high because they need a lot of ground clearance and suspension travel. Sounds like that’s just a combination that doesn’t suit you.
Low-end torque is always going to be lacking in smaller engines, but as I’ve argued before, it usually just takes a change in your riding style to make it safe. With the Ninja 250, for instance, you have to stay in a much higher RPM range to make use of peak power. There are also small-displacement bikes that have very different geometry, gearing, and handling characteristics.
That said, there are plenty of 500/650cc beginner-ish/intermediate bikes that have oodles of torque and go. It really depends on your priorities and preferences as a rider.
October 14, 2009 at 1:37 pm #22841kaiParticipantI honestly can’t remember what that bike was (been 20 years). I know it was blue and it was 400 or 450cc. And that it was either a yamaha or kawasaki. Also, it had a single shock rear end if that helps. Didn’t have it long so no fond memories. Best memory I have of it is that I spent $400 on it and sold it for $500
And I do plan to scan through all the posts today. Just discovered this place last night and thought I’d throw the question out there before bed.
This bike was much like the ninja 250 in that you had to keep it wrapped up to have any power. This didn’t bug me if I was feeling crazy and wanting to act like a racer but to enjoy a leisurely trip in the hills it annoyed me greatly.
Great site! The search goes on….
October 16, 2009 at 3:35 am #22887owlieParticipantHonestly, if it has been 20 years since you’ve ridden, I would suggest two things:
1) take the MSF course. It’ll give you a chance to remember all the things that you’ve forgotten about riding, and maybe teach you some new things.
2) go to the dealerships and sit on some bikes. One of the things that I did was plant my feet and rock the bike side to side under me. It gave me a feeling of where the center of gravity was and helped me decide of the bike was too heavy to feel comfortable starting with.October 17, 2009 at 4:40 pm #22913kaiParticipantOh, I have every intention of taking the course. No worries there.
As far as a dealership goes, I’ll more than likely be buying used – very used. I’ve looked through all the major manufacturers’ sites and there is nothing I like that I can afford. The closest thing out there that I like the looks of and isn’t too powerful is the Ninja 250. But jumping gears all the time and having to listen to it revved up all the time is not for me.
If only Harley made the V-rod in a 500 and under 4 grand I’d be a happy camper!!
October 17, 2009 at 4:52 pm #22914eternal05Participant“But jumping gears all the time and having to listen to it revved up all the time is not for me.”
It’s funny, but I never understood why some riders hate the idea of changing gears. I frequently see this as an argument to get, for instance, a GSX-R1000 instead of a GSX-R600: more torque means you don’t have to worry about gear as much. Well…ignoring the fact that at any remotely legal speed you don’t have to worry about what gear you’re in on a 600 within reason (obviously 6th won’t work at 10 mph), I never really understood why having to change gears would annoy you. On the contrary, I get annoyed when I ride my gixxer in town and don’t GET to change gears.
It just now dawns on me (yeah I know…gonna be tough getting that Master’s innit?) that the people who buy automatic transmission cars also ride motorcycles. I apologize to anybody I may have been insensitive to in the past. If being in charge of your gearing isn’t your thing, that’s your choice to make. Even if it’s wrong
October 17, 2009 at 8:41 pm #22916kaiParticipantI do not hate the idea of changing gears. As a matter of fact, I think it’s cool to run through the gears on a winding back road and pretend I’m a racer. What is not cool is being forced to do it because the bike doesn’t have enough low end.
Picture yourself on a beautiful twisty and hilly road in the mountains in the fall with the leaves turning. You have the road to yourself and wish to drink it all in. To me at least, constant downshifting and having your bike wound up like a steroided weedeater detracts from the whole experience.
Suppose I fall into “wants a big cruiser” category.
October 17, 2009 at 11:00 pm #22917owlieParticipantJust because you aren’t planning to buy new doesn’t mean you can’t visit the dealerships and get an idea of what you are looking for. It will also make it easier when it comes to talking to private parties because you aren’t going to call every Tom, Dick, & Harry only to discover that you really don’t like the particular bike. Just because you sit on a bike or say hi to a salesperson doesn’t mean you have to buy a bike from him.
October 18, 2009 at 1:07 am #22922MunchParticipant“:Now I ask: Are there exceptions to this small bike rule? I have worked out that my first ride had too tall a center of gravity and was underpowered. Is there a beginner’s bike that has a low center of gravity and enough low end torque to not be dangerous in traffic?”
Suzuki S40
Kawasaki Vulcan 500 ( used )
V-Star 650
Honda Shadow
and various other “retro” cruisers that have been out but forgotten.October 18, 2009 at 7:48 am #22928eternal05ParticipantYou change gears precisely to optimize use of your engine’s powerband (which includes 50% downshifting). If you were mimicking a racer, you would not stay in a gear after braking heavily. Whether or not your bike is torquey enough to tolerate the higher gear, a lower gear would be more optimal. For me, really controlling the bike through gearing is a huge part of the fun.
Not wanting to have to downshift and not wanting your bike to sound like a ballistic lawnmower all the time are two different things, and I totally sympathize with the latter. Being forced to ride the Ninja 250R, for instance, really hard (with all the vibration and engine noise) is a turn-off to a lot of people. But if you don’t want to be “constantly downshifting,” then you’re not really into real use of manual transmission. There’s nothing wrong with that at all; I was simply saying that I take my preferences for granted sometimes when recommending things to others.
October 18, 2009 at 2:26 pm #22930kaiParticipantYes, that S40 is on my short list. I’ll have to go set on one for sure though as it may be too small. I do love the fact that it has belt drive. And I am really interested in it since I heard one with aftermarket pipes on Youtube. As they come stock the sound really stinks!
The rest of those suggestions are all good as well. My dad’s first bike was a Vulcan 750 (or was it a 800? whatever the next size up is from a 500) and he really liked it (started riding at 64 yrs old), but sold it because it’s geometry was uncomfortable for longer trips.
October 18, 2009 at 3:54 pm #22933MunchParticipantI know I have said it lots on here, but never forget that if you find a bike that you like there is usually lots you can do to make it better fit you as a rider. New riders especially seem to think it’s just strictly about the bling, but you can get plenty in the way of ergo’s. Different handlebars, grips, risers, back rests, forward controls for longer legs etc. Same is true for sport bikes even. Depending on what year your dad bought it it very well could have been the 800 or earlier the 750.
October 19, 2009 at 3:23 pm #22949DaggerParticipantI agree with Munch. The bikes he listed are all great starting cruisers with a low center of gravity and plenty of power so that you don’t feel like you’re going to be run down by the car behind you. I went with the V-Star 650. Mostly because I got an incredible deal on it. Some guy had dropped it and dented up the tank and tweaked the handlebars a bit. I threw on some new handlebars and forward control extensions to fit my legs better and I had a blast learning to ride on it.
The best thing to do though is to get out there and at least sit on the bikes but better yet take them out for a ride if you can. You’ll know which one is right for you when you sit on it.
Dagger
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