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An interesting weekend…
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March 15, 2010 at 4:19 pm #3757IBA270Participant
It’s starting to warm up nicely here, and our classes are filling up. I had a full class this weekend, and increasingly, we’re getting “experienced” riders as the state has mandated that all riders must take the BRC in order to be licensed.
In my group of seven riders, three had been riding on the street unlicensed and untrained. One student, in thier late 20’s/early 30’s professed that they were only taking the class to stay out of trouble. They said they rode a yamasuzida 1000 or some such…and came to class with low-cut running shoes. While pretty good at a few of the very basic skills, this individual started to be challenged, just like students who had never even stradled a bike before, on the other skills. They had been riding for at least a year, and I think close to two if I remember correctly.
My point to this; we see this story, or a close version of it, EVERY STINKIN’ WEEKEND. If your reading this story, and you are riding without ever having any formal training, or if you’re contemplating doing so, stop. Get some training. You’ll do yourself a huge favor by being a safer, more informed rider as well as getting much more enjoyment out of your new addiction!
Ride safe out there everyone!
March 15, 2010 at 5:54 pm #24959CBBaronParticipantSurprised you let him continue with the tennis shoes. High top shoes was a requirement for the course I took.
Saw that in the course I took last fall. There was an “experienced” rider taking the course who did OK but he struggled just as much as the never ridden students on many activities.
However we did have a student in the class that rode in on an R1 who was the first student the instructor had given full points to on the skills test. However I think he was just a more capable squid. His attitude made several other people in the class highly concerned for his safety.Craig
March 15, 2010 at 6:11 pm #24960JackTradeParticipantIn my BRC, we had a guy who had been riding 20 years, and while overall he did well, he had some trouble with some stuff…I remember he overshot the emergency stop portion of the test.
We also had a guy recently arrived from Europe (apparently, we don’t recognize foreign motorcycle licenses), and he was absolutely flawless in just about every part…it was awe inspiring to watch him. Nice guy too with a good attitude…he was pretty good-natured at having to take a class he clearly didn’t really need.
March 15, 2010 at 10:52 pm #24962IBA270ParticipantOh, I didn’t let them continue…I sent them off to WalMart or where ever before continuing. No way you can participate without the proper gear…serious no no.
March 16, 2010 at 1:28 am #24964Sean_DParticipant… not only will you become a safer rider, you will get a discount on your insurance. Yes, there is the initial outlay of cash, but the course will pay for itself over time. I believe you only get the discount if you voluntarily take and pass the course, so waiting until you are forced to take isn’t of any benefit. Then you still have to pay for the course without the the insurance discount.
I took the MSF in September and have already signed up for an ARC (Additional Rider Course), which if you have completed the Basic Rider Course (BRC) — passed or failed — and would like more training, you are eligible to take a (approximately) 6 hour Additional Riding Class. I would just like the additional 6 hours training as a Spring refresher.
I plan to sign up for the Accident Scene Management course as well as a basic motorcycle maintenance class l.. maybe I am just a course junkie?
March 16, 2010 at 2:24 am #24965owlieParticipantWhile I don’t agree with people’s decision to not take an MSF course, I do understand.
1) Not all insurance companies offer a discount.
2) Guy or girl, there is a certain machismo to having taught yourself to ride a bike. Not to mention that some people just don’t want to admit to not knowing how to do something…
3) For people who “just have to get a bike right now” the MSF course can be a real expense that eats into the $2000 dollars that they have for their dream bike that is a “great deal” on Craig’s List.For people who fall under categories 2 & 3, category 1 is irrelevant anyway…
It is stupid to not get professional instruction on riding a motorcycle, but we all know that stupid is rampant in the world…
March 16, 2010 at 3:05 am #24966Sean_DParticipant… there are a lot of insurance companies out there. I believe that *most* of the major ones do. Gieco, Progressive, AllState, etc. do give a discount, for at least a few years. But there are a lot of lesser known ones out there as well. My insurance is through Progressive. I got a discount from them for passing it.
2) You may be right, but I would think there is a certain machismo in doing the course, doing it well and getting a good score as well. I know I had some pride in accomplishing it. Scored high n the riding and aced the written. But you are probably right that some folks fit into the other categories as well.
3) If you saved up $2000 for the bike of your dreams, I would think spending a little more for proper training (which is far cheaper than a repair), would be a worthwhile investment.
… I would agree that if you fall into category 2 or 3, then 1 is likely irrelevant. Mostly I agree with your last point.
March 16, 2010 at 1:49 pm #24972IBA270ParticipantOne last comment from me on this thread… When we get to the exercises that require the “slow, look, press and roll” technique, EVERYONE looks at me like I’m out of my mind when I say “Look right, press right/look left, press left” to initiate turns. Even folks who ride; they don’t realize what they are doing; cause and effect.
Someone mentioned earlier in their class that an experienced rider blew through the braking portion of the test. It’s my guess (and seems to common with self taught riders) that they don’t trust the front brakes and rely on the back, which aren’t very effective on their own…
But yea, there’s a group out there that “can’t be told” anything. It’s ashame too because there are so many cool experiences in life. If you’ll let someone who knows what they are doing flatten your learning curve, then you can get out there and start enjoying those things are lot faster and lot safer!
March 16, 2010 at 2:18 pm #24973JackTradeParticipantI love taking the courses. I figure it’s cheap insurance, and I like ’em as reminders that I’ve only begun to learn to ride and I shouldn’t overestimate my (meager) abilities.
About a year after I took the BRC, I took the ERC skills practice course….while most of it was the same exercises as the BRC, it was great to have a chance to practice them again under supervision. Plus, they throw in some new stuff like one-handed riding.
The course was really about improving confidence I think. The weekend after I took it, I stopped at a busy gas station (the kind that would have freaked me out when I first started riding), and was amazed at how my low-speed skills had improved b/c of the course…I easily threaded my way though all the cars smoothly and calmly. And also now my tight U turns go w/o a hitch…it’s fun to watch other riders do a big lap in a parking lot while I just turn around where I am.
March 16, 2010 at 2:31 pm #24974JackTradeParticipantI’m amazed at the amount of people on other motorcycle forums (seemingly most often guys who ride cool high-end stuff) who *refuse* to believe that countersteering is how you turn a bike a speed. I mean they are adamant that it’s not true, and the discussion threads become long and abusive as others try to explain. It’s like their religious beliefs are being challenged, it gets that heated.
March 16, 2010 at 3:26 pm #24975Sean_DParticipant.. I had no issue with using the front brake. Maybe it was due to previous experience with bicycle riding, but I had no problem finding and using the front brake… the rear brake on the other hand? I had a hard time finding and using the rear brake at first.
During the first practice attempt I grabbed a hand full of front brake, missed the rear, the bike did a little stoppie, luckily coming squarely back down on the rear tire without dropping. But I quickly learned to find that rear brake and make use of it too
I think part of the problem could be attributed to the fact that I had heavy duty thick hiking boots on for the course. The height of the toe box and the fact I could’t feel much of anything outside the boot kind of made shifting and braking a leap of faith exercise when you are not really familiar with where the controls are.
March 16, 2010 at 4:03 pm #24976CBBaronParticipantThe “cost” of the course isn’t even a factor in Ohio as the state run course is $25.
Ofcourse you have to sign up for the course months in advance, then actually show up to complete it rain or heat.Ohio also offers the ERC (experienced rider course) for $25 but there are not many classes offered. I hope to sign up for one in the fall to continue my education.
Craig
March 16, 2010 at 5:33 pm #24978eonParticipantI can’t say I understand those who do not take training as training factored into my decision even before I bought a bike. Taking the BRC was a great way to see if I would like riding. Even for that reason alone it was worth it but of course it is so much more than simply a cheap way to ride a bike for two days.
Have to say I was disappointed with the ERC as I was expecting it to take my skills to the next level. Instead as has been mentioned it is mostly a rehash of the BRC. It was good to confirm I had not let bad habits creep in but it would have been nice to learn some ‘expert’ techniques. I guess that was my fault for having the wrong expectations of the course. Having a lot of ‘experienced’ riders on the class who were really there to get licensed didn’t help I think, as they were learning the basics for the first time.
I’ve noticed on a lot of other boards the inevitable question of “why we ride” is often answered with “the danger”. Can honestly say that has nothing to do with why I ride. Sometimes I get a surge of adrenalin but mostly that’s when I have effed up and scare myself. I then get mad for having made a mistake but maybe others go from corner to corner scaring themselves silly? I dunno. Maybe training would rob them of the thrill they get by riding badly?
For me the learning is going to continue for a long time yet. Recently watched a training video from an ex UK Police instructor, read the training book for UK Police riders and have an Advanced Street Skills class coming up in June. Also have a mechanics class this weekend where I hope to learn the difference between a spanner and a screwdriver.
March 16, 2010 at 7:05 pm #24982Gary856ParticipantWhen it comes to driving, 99% of drivers have no idea about vehicle dynamics, and 99.99% of drivers don’t have high-performance driving experience or instruction. I don’t. (Speeding and reckless driving are NOT high-performance driving.) Our parents taught us how to drive, we got our licenses, and that was that. If we spun out the car at first sign of light rain, well, that was the car’s fault, or the tires’ fault, or the road’s fault.
A good percentage of people carry that mentality into riding motorcycles, especially those who learned to ride early in life from friends/relatives, so it’s not hard to understand why they don’t feel specialized trainings are necessary. I didn’t know how to ride and had no one to teach me, so taking the MSF class was the easy way to learn.
My feeling is that only motorcycle hobbyist would go thru the trouble and expense for advanced trainings. Me – I plan to take American Supercamp for dirt riding, and California Superbike school for tracking riding. A one-day wheelie school and supermoto school would be cool, too. These trainings can take a lot of time and cost a lot of money. The majority of riders are not hobbyists, or don’t have the luxury of time or paying for expensive trainings, so they just learn on their own or from their friends.
March 16, 2010 at 8:00 pm #24983eonParticipantI think it likely the attitude towards driving is being carried over to riding. The bar for getting a license in the US is so low you get in and go with the barest minimum of instruction. You learn as you go and any mishaps are likely to be non fatal. Maybe it’s not surprising a lot of people do the same on a bike.
In the UK getting a driving license is a lot harder and I took over 25 hours of one on one instruction in order to pass (and this was 20 years ago and I know the test keeps getting harder each year). Still, I had my share of mishaps in the car in those early years. Mistakes that would have been very bad on a bike.
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