- This topic has 8 replies, 7 voices, and was last updated 14 years, 11 months ago by eternal05.
955 CC’s and a dropped FJR1300
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May 12, 2009 at 5:29 am #2812roborabbitParticipant
Hi! I’m new to biking (surprise?) and I’m looking for a few unbiased opinions. My step-father has recently bought a FJR1300 leaving his old ’00 Triumph 955 Sprint ST free which (even though he’s been riding for most of my life) made me realize that I may be able to ride it. However, after getting my permit(already signed up for Rider Ed. NJ MSF-Course at this point) the morning after deciding I wanted to try motorcycling (is the NJ DMV serious? anyone who has driven a car has enough practical knowledge to pass the written test, don’t know if it was a statistic anomaly but only 3 out of 30 questions were even remotely related to a motorcycle) and after a week of reading every magazine, book, and guide I could find easily(cycleworld, DMV Manual, MSF Manual/website, every review/guide on this site, and, of course, the Complete Idiot’s Guide to Motorcycles, I got my step-father to take me out to my college parking lot for a lesson on the 955. After dropping his new FJR in the garage that morning (got lucky and, while putting a skill read in Complete Idiot’s Guide to use with success, let it down slowly without myself under it and the bike came away with only a slight scrape on the muffler and a smudge on the saddle bags; while working up the courage to tell my dad that I dropped his new bike and needed help lifting it I was fully prepared to be leaving either with all my worldly belongings or in an ambulance luckily neither happened even though I have been told that my life is on loan from that moment forward) I should have taken that as a warning to stay away from any bike over 600cc or 500 lb for awhile. However my step-father still took me out to the parking lot that day for a lesson on the 955. After a few minutes of rolling it side to side and walking it around to get a feel for the CG he explained what to do when starting a bike (ie, keeping the clutch fully pulled even if the idiot light says it’s in neutral and keeping the front brake fully applied) and how to feel for the friction point / slip the clutch. After a few stalls while trying to find the friction point and from reflexively applying the front brake with the clutch not disengaged I was feeling very confident in my ability to balance the bike and handle the clutch (in first gear at least). So, naturally, came the next lesson: engaging the clutch and then applying slight throttle while going in a straight line. Also, naturally, that is the second point in the same day that I almost crapped my pants. After getting up to about 20 mph in just a few seconds I pulled the clutch / applied the brakes, put it in neutral, and struggled to find the kick stand. My step-father, perplexed, walks up and asks why I stopped when I was doing so well. After trying to muffle a reply through my helmet I got off the bike and replied “I have no idea how to turn and that wall (median type parking separator) coming up awfully fast.” After being thoroughly intimidated by the “virtually non-existent”(as my step-father put it) low-end torque of that sportbike I had decided to wait until the MSF course before touching another throttle. However, my step-father had other ideas and kept trying to convince me to get back on the bike so he could teach me “slow speed maneuvers”; luckily and ironically, the campus police (first time I’ve been glad to see a cop; and yes it was a real cop not a rent-a-cop, it was a county college so he was a county sheriff/deputy) rolled up and told us we would have to leave. Even though I was thankful that the practice session was interrupted the smart-ass in me just couldn’t stand the idea that I was being told I wasn’t allowed to practice in an empty (spring sessions / finals had ended 3 days prior and summer courses weren’t starting for a week or two) parking lot that was essentially public domain and a public road. So I asked the semi-cop why. Arguing with a cop never gets you anywhere, especially when you are right. After about 5 minutes of questioning him as to why I wasn’t allowed to practice in a parking lot that A) Had no one around for 500+ yards Is never used even when class is taking place and C) was considered public property. He answered that it would be bad press and a liability issue if I were to get hurt. Again, being the smart-ass that I am when confronted with authority, I asked “Wouldn’t it be even worse press and still a liability if, after being chased out from the relatively safety of an empty public parking lot, I got into an accident on public roads?” (I know the logic is faulty but …. it made sense at the time). That is when he started asking for identification and also when I shut my mouth.
So, after being intimidated by a 955cc bike and being chased out of our practice area my step-father decides to go hunting for another one. What ensued was a cat-and-mouse game between a 99′ Jeep Cherokee (me driving of course) and a bike (really nails it home how vulnerable someone is on a bike when you’re watching/following a family member in something that could make them into road kill with little effort or attention) I’d resolved not to touch for at least 2 years with my step-father resolved to find an abandoned office building with no security to bug us. I was relieved, to say the least, when, after 30 minutes of running around an industrial park, my step-father declared that there was nothing suitable and that he was surprised that every building was in use considering the economy. After that adventure I have been firmly resolved to start with a bike under 600CC’s with 2 or less cylinders (although the sound of thumpers set my teeth on edge).
And that is why I am posting here. I need an opinion that is unbiased whereas my step-father’s is not. (He’s getting into the spirit of bike hunting and he keeps picking out bikes that, while being fun and good for him to ride on, would most likely end up on the pavement with me a few tens of feet away on the ground.)
After doing my research and learning as much as I could I’ve narrowed down my choices to a few bikes:
1) Ninja 500r
2) Ninja 250r
3) Vulcan 500 ltd
4) GS500
5) Buell Blast (Love the standard look but I just can’t stand the idea of a single cylinder, it just seems so… unrefined and unintelligent, plus just standing next to one makes me feel like I’ll have a headache)
6) Honda Nighthawk 250
7) The Hyosung look-alikes of the previously mentioned models ( Probably won’t happen since my step-father has pretty much said I’m out the door if I buy Korean)
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Bikes I’m considering but know are a bit too much for me:
1) SV650
2) Er-6n
….maybe one day…I can dream, right?
Experience: Mini-bikes when I was a kid and 20 min. of practice on a bike that is way too much for me.
Few notes on sizing: I am 6’1″ and 150 lb. I’ve sat on a 250r briefly and the position felt comfortable. However I’ve sat on a ’09 Rebel and it felt as if I was supposed to control the handle bars with my knees. And my tendency on bikes (non-motorized) lean toward the mountain bikes with a slight/ medium lean forwards (anything like a racing oriented cycle gives me back-spasms). I think I would be fine on cruiser style bike(though the look isn’t my favorite) if there was one in my size(IE freakishly long legs end with my knees hitting the handle bars when they are only a quarter of the way turned).
Travelling plans:
My plans for riding are mostly commuting to work and college (both less than 10 mi away) and sometimes riding out to phili (2.5 hours by car), NYC (1-1.5 hours by car), and upstate NY/Conn (3-4 hours by car) with friends. The area I live in doesn’t have many twisties and the road conditions are sub-par and can make you feel as if you’re going to bottom out even in an SUV. (Many highways converge in my area so there is a lot of traffic, both by car/truck/suv and semis; that combined with townships wasting money on things like cobblestone crosswalks leave the roads in pretty bad condition. To get a road paved, instead of just patched, there needs to be an average of 3-4 potholes 4″+ deep over 10 sq ft area.)
My preferences (for looks / position) lean towards the sportier bikes; ie, I love the look of the new 250r and the look of the 500r (without the flames painted on). I also find the naked style of bikes appealing; ie, the straight seat, no / half fairing.
If there is anything I missed when looking through what bikes may be suitable for me please post them.
Now for specific questions about the models:
I know the topic has probably been run into the ground but how do the 500r and the ’08 250r stack up side by side? IE; position, suspension/handling (saw that the 500r has 3.9 in of rear travel where as the ’08 250r has 5.1″ does it really make a difference?)
Also, I’ve read that the 250r is less than forgiving in poor surface conditions (bumpy roads). This would impact my decision the most since the road care in my area is less than stellar.
I’ve seen and heard that 250r is hard to come by since it’s a new model and that dealers are charging a premium because of this (and are also snatching up used ones as fast as they can and reselling them at regular MSRP instead of the 5200-6000 OTD they are getting for new ones. This has me leaning more towards the 500r since its plentiful used and relatively cheap compared to the much sought after ’08-09 250r.
I’ve heard that the Vulcan 500 tends to hit a person’s knees in full lock (I know this will only happen in low speed maneuvers and even then rarely) if they are above 5’10″~. Me being of the freakishly long legged Irish breed finds this idea very disconcerting.
About the Honda Nighthawk, I’ve tried sitting on just about every 250cc bike I can find and all of them (excluding dual sports and the 250r) make me feel like I’m supposed to control the handle bars with my knees. (Sitting on a rebel with my feet on the pegs and the front wheel straightened my knees are only about 2-4 inches away from the handle bars.) And am I just not searching hard enough or are these even harder to find than the 250r? I’ve called all the dealerships in my area (30 mi radius) and none of them had any new or used.
Another concern for me is accessories available / compatible with the bikes. Having some sort of storage is a must. IE, a rear trunk/saddle bags capable of carrying shoes for work and holding clothes. (I work retail– wearing any kind of boots is not an option, the idea of 8-12 hrs on my feet wearing riding boots makes my feet cramp in sympathy.) Being able to carry a full set of clothes isn’t a must but carrying a pair of shoes is. Although I don’t like the idea of wearing biking gear over my work clothes it isn’t a deal breaker. However, a tail trunk would be nice since I do the occasional light camping and the idea of doing it on a bike makes my grin ear-to-ear. This and the road conditions in my area is what makes me hesitate about getting a 250r. After searching I have not been able to find any storage add-on for the 250r that would be suitable for my purposes.
Those are pretty much all my concerns about motorcycles (at the moment) and if you can provide any insight I’d greatly appreciate it.
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Also this 2 month wait for a MSF course is killing me! It’s been 3 weeks since I’ve gotten into motorcycles and still every other thought on my mind is about a certain type of bike and 1 out of every 5 words out of my mouth has something to do motorcycles. When they coined the term Christmas in July they really must have been speaking about being able to take out your bike. -___-
And, has anyone taken the Rider Ed. NJ MSF course? If so can you tell me what to expect (except 18 hours on a bike in the July sun).
Another question for anyone in the central NJ area, do you know of a reliable new and used motorcycle dealership? Are there any I should absolutely stay away from? (Ie, poor mechanics, service, and sales persons who say things like “That scratch gives it character”).
Any recommendations on beginner’s books etc?
Can’t wait till the MSF where I can ride a bike that’s fit for my experience >_<;;;.
May 12, 2009 at 3:18 pm #18382MunchParticipantOk….whew wow…. my question… you work for your local paper?
I can only tell you from a Vulcan 500 stand point.
From the sounds of it the V500 would be a high contender for you .. it has enough low end torque to give you some security on the take offs. You won’t have to feel to much on the nervous side about having to hear the engine wind up to get going. It will be a touch short for your longer legs though I am 5’10” and never had my knees come close to hitting the handle bars at full lock. You can find many adjustments from it from Scootworks.com. Really the only few places that can make things for them. You can get Handle Bar risers to remedy the knee knocking…. forward foot controls for the stretch. You can go to any company for saddle bags. Both Kawi and Scootworks make the brackets to safely keep the saddle bags away from the wheel.
The V500 has more of a standard foot position at stock and is as nimble as most any sport bike out there. The engine is based off the Ninja 500 motor but “tuned down” a touch for cruiser like feel. It will get you up and above highway speeds easily and still leave room for passing. IT can stay at 90 all day long. Riding 2 up tends to slow it up a little bit. Barring full boar hellion riding you would get close to the upper 50’s in gas mileage. Heck I would probably still have mine if the woman and kids weren’t constantly wanting to ride with me.
My only dislike really about the V500 was it’s chain driven. Living in NC it constantly rains here and I am lazy. I hate felling like I have to re oil the chain every week end. There are some Vulcan boards where I frequent that even has a couple older 500’s go well beyond the 100k mark. So the reliability is definitely there. Resale value… well when I traded my V500 for my V900….. the bike was gone in 2 weeks. I had already put the saddle bags on it which is why it went so quick.
Now prepare yourself for alot of sport bike recommendations as us cruisers are far outnumbered here …lol.
Good luck on whatever you chose and relax! Enjoy the ride but ALWAYS keep your head in the ride and your body in the gear.May 12, 2009 at 4:08 pm #18387Sed8MeParticipantWow… if you don’t work for the paper maybe you should!
Since I am newer to street bikes than you are I won’t offer any advice, but as a father I wanted to compliment you on your maturity level. You have taken such a unemotional view of motorcycle riding and selection that I am sure you will make the right decision.
Trust what the guys/gals here tell you, Munch had advised me to go with the 500R rather than the Vulcan 900 as my first bike, and I do very much appreciate that advice, as I am sure I would not feel comfortable with the 900 right now and would be suffering from buyers remorse…
May 12, 2009 at 4:31 pm #18389roborabbitParticipantJust realized how long of a post this was . My spring courses just ended last week so I’m still in “writing a college term paper” mode. Plus I figured I’d put as many of my questions in one place as possible .
As of right now I’m leaning heavily away from the 250r simply because of insurance purposes. A 250r (because of the full fairing) would cost me around 500-700 yearly. With the highest possible deductable and cash value compensation. When compared to the 500r and V500 which would only 200-300 / year with the same coverage.
Also just searching for a vulcan 500 tells me that it would be worth the wait. These bikes get picked up fast so that tells me that even if I decide to upgrade(1-2 years down the line) the resale value will be secure.
Another question:
How would a dealer feel about a trade-in? I know it would depend on the bike but my father has said that using his Sprint as a trade in is a possibility. (Though he said he would rather pay for my bike outright instead of being insulted with a low ball offer on his baby. He’s probably spent more time with that bike than with me.) Don’t know how a dealer would feel about a trade-in on a bike that would be worth 3/4 – 2/3 the value of the bike I’m considering (KBB has it listed as 4500 private and 3300 trade in). The bikes condition is excellent, only has 13,000 miles on it. This bike has been pampered more than Paris Hilton imo. Even after getting the FJR and not using the Sprint he changes the oil on it every 3 months and runs it sitting for 20-30 min. every other week (He also lubes the chain every 3 weeks and rolls it up and down the drive way).
May 12, 2009 at 4:40 pm #18391megaspazParticipantDude, there’s no way a ninja 250 should cost you that much in insurance. Shop around… My 848 only costs me 600/year, full coverage 100/300/100, 500 deductible, comp and collision, etc. My SV650S, 500/year… Whoever you’re doing insurance with is taking you to the cleaners. Call state farmm.
May 12, 2009 at 4:49 pm #18392CandiceParticipantI can’t beleive you dropped your Dad’s bike, I was cringing for you. You listed the Honda Nighthawk as a possiblity and I rode that one in my MSF class last year, I liked it so much I had my heart set on buying one new but there were none in the state of illinois that were new and for sale so i did not end up with that but I really liked it, they don’t seem as popular as the NINJA though.
May 12, 2009 at 5:37 pm #18393roborabbitParticipantIt was a long fight between me and that 650 lb(dry) monster. I was rolling it towards the back of the garage and hit a mass of tubing(air compressor hose piled about 4-6 inches high) which turned the front wheel. When I noticed that it was about to fall and after an unsuccessfull attempt to straighten the front wheel and keep it balanced I gave up took my right hand off the handlebar and got my leg out of the way. What ensued then (probably a comical sight my left hand/foot stilll on the handle bar/peg and my right leg pushing against the wall which the FJR seemed to want to hug) was a three-way battle-royal between me, gravity, and the laws of inertia. So, after a 30 second crash course in bike physics, I realized that even if I managed force the bike back to a standing position it would just fall the other way and I wouldn’t be able to get out of the way. Then I resolved to let it down as slowly as possible (which seemed successful at the moment but the bike probably hit the floor faster than it seemed at the time) and only ended up with a scrape on my right ankle (from a nail in the wall) and a hell of alot of muscle strain. Which is pretty good considering that if I hadn’t been as lucky as I was I could have ended up with a broken leg (which still would have been lucky) or pinned against a concrete wall with my hips shattered if I had gotten off in the opposite direction. I can tell you this, if Goliath had decided to just sit on David he probably would have won quite easily. Oh and the scratch on the muffler is gone thanks to the liberal use of chrome polish and a right angle grinder + buff pad.
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About the 250r insurance, these numbers are all from online quotes and I know I could argue them down atleast 40% (State Farm, Progressive, and Geico). But even taking that into account the insurance on a ’08-09 250r is still going to cost a bit more (prob more like 250-350 / yr) than a 500r (just called and got a quote from my local insurance broker for 190-260 / yr for ’00-09 models). This is most likely due to the fact that a 250r has full fairing where a 500r has half and also because being a much sought after new model the 250r is probably considered a high-theft risk. Also, this is NJ where insurance companies hold more sway and power than the state executive, legislative, and judicial bodies combined. If ever there was a Monopoly that needed to be broken up and brought to court it’s probably the auto insurance industry.
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About the Nighthawk, after searching high and low for one and not finding a single one within a reasonable driving distance (30-60 miles) I’ve pretty much put that idea to the side. Now I’m just wondering whether this is a really nice bike and no one wants to resell it or if it’s just a case of manufactuers not believing there is a market for it because the Ninja 250r seems to have every starter hypnotised.
May 12, 2009 at 6:27 pm #18402Clay DowlingParticipantIs a game of patience. I hunted for a long time to find my Magna. Most of a summer. Of course, I still bought it a few weeks before my MSF class.
Craigslist and EBay were my friends for finding this bike. I just trolled them every day at lunch hunting for a decent bike.
Rebels and Nighthawks, BTW, are a bear to find, and used they go for close to new prices. Popular bikes because of the fuel efficiency and easy of handling. Their record for longevity doesn’t hurt either. A co-worker uses his ’83 400cc Nighthawk as his daily commuter in the summer, and it’s pretty trouble-free.
The only problem with buying a used bike will be getting a loan. Banks don’t want to lend on a vehicle more than about 3 years old. It used to be you could fund an older bike using a personal unsecured loan if you had decent credit, but right now Chase isn’t writing those, and most other banks are probably following along.
May 27, 2009 at 10:41 am #18973eternal05ParticipantIf you’re in college (and worse if you’re male), prepare to eat S!@# in insurance rates. Just sayin’.
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